New Unit Organization – Joint Site Security Detachment

[Major B]

I’m working on a unit organization to fill a role I see for the Imperial Marines IMTU. I thought I’d post what I’ve worked out so far, to generate some feedback as I work through the development.

The mission requirement is to have an organization that can set down on a chosen site and secure it. The site can’t be particularly big because that would take a bigger formation, probably a combat formation, which is a larger commitment. I see a need for a smaller formation, capable of handling relatively low-level threats plus having enough capability to deter a larger attack. What I mean is that the arrival of this unit would signify Imperial resolve to prevent a site from being attacked because it would be understood that any attack on this unit would generate a larger (and more unpleasant) response from the Imperium. Therefore, the unit needs to find a balance between being small and deployable and having enough combat power to be a credible deterrent, backed up by the threat of retribution against any group brash enough to actually attack.

The capabilities required are:
- Nuclear Damper (essential for securing a site if the world has those weapons and the threat of using nukes is a likely reason why the Imperium would intervene)
- Meson Screen (optional but very useful)
- Point Defense
- Ground antiarmor defense
- Ground antipersonnel defense
- Indirect fire (counterbattery fire capability – rather than just shoot at the incoming rounds why not hit the source?)
- Some mobility (not for everyone but some patrol vehicles would increase their ground coverage)
- Dismount troops (not a lot but there are some roles that will require dismounted soldiers, like manning a security checkpoint)

Some considerations:
Rather than creating Nuc. Damper and Meson Screen vehicles, and since the force needs a deployment vessel to reach the site they must secure, it makes sense to put the Nuc. Damper and Meson Screen on the vessel. Since the force is now vessel-based rather than just vessel-transported, it can also use more powerful sensors than what can be put on a vehicle. It also simplifies long-term billeting arrangements as the troops and crew both live on their ship.

This leads to an imperative to make this a joint unit, mixing Navy and Marine personnel under a single commander (who could be either).

The Marine section is currently 20 personnel with 9 light grav vehicles organized as follows:
- Ground Security Squad: 9 Marines (two fire teams of 4 each plus a NCOIC)
- Point Defense / Antiarmor Squad: 9 Marines with 9 1-man vehicles (2x long range point defense (laser), 2x medium-range PD (fusion gun), 2x short range PD (RP plasma gun), 2x MRL launchers, 1x utility vehicle)
- Headquarters: one officer, one NCO, and add a corpsman (Navy) to bring the total to 21.

I’m still working on the ship (using MT rules) but it looks like this will all fit into a 300-Td hull. It has a factor 7 Nuc. Damper and factor-7 Meson Screen, along with a beam laser turret and two sandcaster turrets. The ship is capable of 2G with agility-2 and has a model-8/fib computer (this reduced the crew size to what you see below). I’m trying to decide whether to make the vessel jump-capable or not. I’ll likely have to go with a bigger hull (400 Td, maybe 500) if I add jump drives. Maybe a jump shuttle will be good enough, but that limits the strategic usefulness of the unit.

With the current incomplete design (300Td, no jump), the crew calculations give me a Navy crew of 16 (not counting the corpsman with the Marines). When I add the Marines in as ship’s troops, the calculations increase the command crew by three so I’ll make the detachment HQ with 3 personnel (officer, senior NCO, admin/supply NCO). The officer and senior NCO positions in the Det HQ will be joint billets (can be filled with Marine or Navy personnel, not both from the same service though).

The Navy crew breaks down as: Command-2, steward-1, Bridge-1, Engineering-2, Gunnery-11 (the Nuc. Damper and Meson Screen operators, plus turret gunners). The overall total number of personnel is now 41.

So, I’d appreciate any feedback on these questions that will help to flesh out the unit:

Is there a need for this type of force?
How large of an area do you see a need to secure?
Is the ground element large enough? Too large?
What jump capability does the vessel need, if any?
Are there any other required capabilities I haven’t thought of?
Is the meson screen really important? If so, can it be made large enough to protect beyond the hull of the ship?

 

[Icosahedron]

Just a couple of thoughts, Major.

Dunno how things work IYTU, but IMTU:

If the Imperium is going to bother 'showing the flag' at all, they'll do it with more than 41 troops!

If they are going to put troops on the ground, they will also ensure Ortillery support - from a jump-shuttle maybe. This also places a few eggs in a separate basket.

There is likely to be more than one target site per world that will need to be 'secured', so several landers dropping from a common shuttle would be increasingly likely, and possibly a number of such shuttles will be necessary.

By the time you have several shuttles, plus landers, plus a bit of a logistics tail, you will need a task force to protect the convoy - which leads back to my first point. Showing the flag will not be cheap and as such will not be tackled in a half-hearted manner. If the Imperium goes in at all, it will go in heavy.

 

[Major B]

I see the logic in that Icos. It makes sense from the Imperial perspective - if its important enough to intervene then intervene in a big way. Do you see economics mitigating that to any extent or would it be more of a hard rule and result in less cases of intervention?

Also, if we posit a big intervention - more along the lines of a battalion or regiment, do you still see a need to secure particular sites and by extension a need for a separate force to do that in order to free up the combat forces to engage in combat rather then guarding key infrastructure?

If that need is real, then maybe this element would be part of a larger force, not an independent organization.

 

[veltyen]

The capabilities required are:
- Nuclear Damper (essential for securing a site if the world has those weapons and the threat of using nukes is a likely reason why the Imperium would intervene)

I would disagree here. Heavy armor works against so many other things as well and it is within its capabilities to bounce the occasional small nuke strike. A larger coordinated strike results in no-more-cities when the fleet returns.

If the planet is in open revolt, and is willing to bring banned weapons into play then devastation should be the result - in which case you wouldn't drop the marines anyway, you would just start with the indiscriminate ortillery.

In the case of assisting in the defense of Imperial holdings while a minor revolt takes place there shouldn't be that many unneutralized nukes available. Ditto in the case of a balkanized world needing some minor military assistance.

So the expected incoming nukes would be the occasional one on the back of a lorry - so keep a large exclusion zone around the landing vehicle, or uncoordinated attacks of a handful of missiles at a time at most.

- Meson Screen (optional but very useful)

See notes about Nukes.

- Point Defense
- Ground antiarmor defense
- Ground antipersonnel defense
- Indirect fire (counterbattery fire capability – rather than just shoot at the incoming rounds why not hit the source?)
- Some mobility (not for everyone but some patrol vehicles would increase their ground coverage)
- Dismount troops (not a lot but there are some roles that will require dismounted soldiers, like manning a security checkpoint)

I agree with the rest of your points.

This leads to an imperative to make this a joint unit, mixing Navy and Marine personnel under a single commander (who could be either).

That depends on how you feel about Marines being in charge of non-jump capable vessels.

So, I’d appreciate any feedback on these questions that will help to flesh out the unit:

Is there a need for this type of force?

In my consideration yes. IMTU they are called drop fortress.

How large of an area do you see a need to secure?

Highly dependent on mission goals.

For a toe hold for a later armed landing maybe up to an area several thousand kilometres to a side where anti-space weaponry had been neutralized. A considerably smaller area to land additional troops that needs to be held more firmly.

Is the ground element large enough? Too large?

Again it comes down to goals. If they're being a bodyguard to an Imperial friendly despot against a popular revolution the force might be large enough on a low-med tech world. For smashing all the anti-space weaponry on a high-pop industrial hightech world you'd need hundreds of times the troops.

What jump capability does the vessel need, if any?

Minimal or none. Making it a specialist type of shuttle means that you don't have the cost of a Jump drive if you lose it. On the other hand the possibility of system-escape if things get really bad adds a certain flexibility.

Are there any other required capabilities I haven’t thought of?

Repair and engineering seems a little light on first glance.

There is a good chance this group would be abandoned for weeks at a time, attrition of gear might make the force non-viable even against a low tech opponent. Shoot enough people you will run out of ammo. With the array of small vehicles you have some ability to repair and refit is practically a necessity.

Engineering in the field engineering meaning. They might need to make a landing strip for the reinforcements they are waiting on, and being able to dig in well designed defenses won't go astray.

The ability to strike multiple places simultaneously is lacking as well. Fast grav Tanks/APC's able to carry a squad for long range special operations for example.

Is the meson screen really important? If so, can it be made large enough to protect beyond the hull of the ship?

In my opinion the meson screen is unimportant. If the opponent has meson guns then they are the wrong tools for the job.

 

[aramis]

The ND and Meson Screen are simply neither enough and too much.

They are not enough for a major fleet battle; a likely operating environment.

For landing, the ND is overkill.

THe Meson screen, well, HT worlds tend to use deep meson sites for PD....

 

[Icosahedron]

I see the logic in that Icos. It makes sense from the Imperial perspective - if its important enough to intervene then intervene in a big way. Do you see economics mitigating that to any extent or would it be more of a hard rule and result in less cases of intervention?

No, I doubt if cost would be a factor - it would be a matter of Imperial pride, and failure to intervene, or worse, intervening with an insufficient force and getting your ass kicked would be even more costly in the long term.
Look at the UK defense of the Falklands. You send in a big enough force to be sure of doing the job, regardless of cost.

Also, if we posit a big intervention - more along the lines of a battalion or regiment, do you still see a need to secure particular sites and by extension a need for a separate force to do that in order to free up the combat forces to engage in combat rather then guarding key infrastructure?

If that need is real, then maybe this element would be part of a larger force, not an independent organization.

IMTU it works differently, there is a unit permanently stationed on every world, and these would probably be the equivalent of the unit you're proposing. They are under the personal command of a Sheriff (think Nottingham, not Dodge City) who is the 'Party Representative' for the Imperium. He is not exactly a governor, and officially has no power in world politics, but he is the eyes and ears of the Emperor on world. The Sheriff's men are numerous enough and well-equipped enough to protect him, repel a starport seige, etc. But who is going to attack the local personification of the Emperor anyway?
Except for very low pop worlds, I still imagine they would number hundreds, if not thousands, but I tend not to specify their capabilities closer than that. :devil:

 

[Icosahedron]

Major, don't let me put you off here, your idea is valid, there is certainly a need for local asset defence. It's just a question of how many people are needed, how they get to the site, and where they are stationed between calls.

 

[Major B]

Major, don't let me put you off here, your idea is valid, there is certainly a need for local asset defence. It's just a question of how many people are needed, how they get to the site, and where they are stationed between calls.

I'm not put off Icos, thanks. I see a need for a unit to fulfill the mission, but am struggling with how much is enough and how much is too much (from an economics sense).

I'm working on a concept for a composite marine company with one light armor platoon, one mech platoon (maybe in Empress APCs), one assault platoon, and one security platoon (this last much like the original section). This force will be disigned to subdivide into four separate elements (with a slice from all four platoons) for small site security roles, or operate togather as a company for a larger site. I'm looking at JTAS #12 to design the APC and assault platoons and using the Prodromoi to outfit the armor platoon.

To carry the force it looks like a hull of about 1000 Td is the minimum I'll need. This will stay in orbit to provide ortillery and have drop capsules for the assault platoon and four landers to bring in the heavy vehicles and rest of the troops. It may have four fighters if I can fit them.

Will post more when I have more time to flesh the concept out.

 

[Icosahedron]

Following a link from one of these here threads, I downloaded the Dirtside 2 rules, and in them I found a suggestion for a starport defence force:

3 platoons of militia (SPA security troops)
1 air defence troop
1 command section

and nearby reinforcements:

2 troops MBTs
2 platoons mechanised infantry in IFVs
2 troops missile vehicles

And the assault force:

4 platoons powered infantry
2 troops light AFVs
2 platoons line infantry in APCs
2 flights ground attack aircraft

Thought it might be of interest.

 

[Renaissance Man]

Bah! I completed a substantial post on this and my connection was lost in posting it. :nonono:

I'll try again later.

 

[Renaissance Man]

In a nutshell, I like this idea.

A JSSD strikes me as the smallest occupying force the Imperium employs, useful for shoring up backwaters and outposts, and discouraging poor political choices on the part of worlds with wavering allegiances. It also makes sense for securing small but important areas from other contenders while a more substantial fleet element is brought to bear - like newly discovered resources, or an important research installation, or some important personage. In short, it's a great ship for PCs.

I think the JSSD should be jump capable. In fact it should be relatively fast, since it's role is to operate quite a distance from a main fleet. Also, the JSSD ship will have cover a lot of space fast in order to report a cool reception, and get word out to the big guns that there is a problem. If they just get sent out into the void and don't return they can't convey any intelligence, and a follow up mission has to go in blind, weeks, months or even years after the fact.

The JSSD is just large enough to pose a threat to worlds with small populations, political and economic stability issues and lower TLs, and these are exactly the kind of worlds that will look to level the playing field with nukes. So the ND is a good idea. The Meson Screen not so much. If you're going to show the flag at a world with meson weapons, a cruiser would be a better choice. A JSSD is a baby flag.

It should be comfortable offering ortillery support to a drop shuttle carrying the Joint Task Force dirtside. This is the best position to take advantage of it's firepower, and it also allows it to pull out and return to the fleet (sometimes leaving the task force behind?) if there's real trouble.

Don't go too much higher than 1000 dt though. Part of the mission, if I understand it correctly, is to accomplish a lot, at a distance, with very little. The JSSD is an efficient means of pushing the Imperium's reach and demonstrating the resolve to commit greater force if needed.

 

[Icosahedron]

I'm not convinced that sending for reinforcements should necessitate abandonong the task force. I'd give the JSSD a courier. The courier could be used as a High Guard/ fuel shuttle for the troop ship, to look out for the other side's reinforcements, and could jump out with a mayday in the event of serious trouble.

 

[Major B]

I’m still working out the details, but I think I’ve finally arrived at a organization that I think fills the bill. At least to my satisfaction and I’m interested to see everyone’s take on what I have so far.

The struggle for me has been to balance how much capability was enough with how much capability could be spared from other requirements (from the point of view of IN and IM commanders).

As stated so succinctly by RM, the purpose of the organization is to be...

... the smallest occupying force the Imperium employs, useful for shoring up backwaters and outposts, and discouraging poor political choices on the part of worlds with wavering allegiances. It also makes sense for securing small but important areas from other contenders while a more substantial fleet element is brought to bear - like newly discovered resources, or an important research installation, or some important personage.
...
Part of the mission, if I understand it correctly, is to accomplish a lot, at a distance, with very little. The JSSD is an efficient means of pushing the Imperium's reach and demonstrating the resolve to commit greater force if needed.

However, as Icosahedron implied, the limited number of marines available in any given area dictates that this needs to be a force drawn from existing organizations as needed, rather than being a dedicated force just sitting around waiting for a mission to crop up.

It's just a question of how many people are needed, how they get to the site, and where they are stationed between calls.

The ship(s) are somewhat specialized so I see a limited number being available at naval depots and other strategic locations. When not engaged in an expedition, they could be employed in interdiction operations or routine training, but they are designed for frontier duties, showing the flag and maintaining a credible presence in places where force or the threat of force is deemed necessary, but a larger commitment of troops and fleet units is not possible or economically feasible.

First, the ground force: This element is drawn from the IM combat regiments following an organizational formula I see as part of unit standing operating procedures. That means the mission would be something the unit would train on routinely so that all elements of the regiment were ready to be called on at short notice. The marine organization is from MTU but is partly based on the organization depicted in JTAS #12.

Overall, the IM organization is designed for flexibility. The overall headquarters is a scaled-down battalion (force) HQ commanded by a Major, with some attached elements to provide specific capabilities. These include an engineer section, maintenance section, communications section, and supply section.

Under the Force HQ are three composite companies. The first is an assault infantry company with two platoons equipped with battle dress and FGMP-14s and possibly grav belts to provide better tactical mobility. This element can conduct orbital insertion using jump capsules to secure a lodgment and can also conduct raids or ambushes that support the overall force directly or indirectly. When not employed in one of these roles, this company would usually remain on the ship as a reserve able to be inserted where and when needed.

The second company is a composite mechanized formation with two infantry platoons mounted in Grav APCs (I’m thinking of the Empress from 101 vehicles) and two light armor platoons (I’m using the M109 Prodromoi I designed for this). This company has two assault landing craft each carrying half of the company to conduct rapid descent to the surface, and the grav vehicles themselves are capable of making the trip from orbit to the surface and back if the tactical situation allows it. Because this element has excellent tactical mobility I see them normally employed as a consolidated reserve force on the surface, although they can also split into two or four subordinate elements to be dispersed over a wider area.

The third company is the site security force, consisting of four detachments composed of a mix of infantry and light vehicles mounting point defense and indirect fire systems. These elements physically occupy and secure a site and are carried in a shuttle mounting a nuclear damper.

The main ship will be at least 1000 Td with J6 and M2-3 depending on how successful I am at fitting all this together. It will carry the two mech landers and four SECFOR landers and two to four fighters for close air support to the ground element. It will also have a meson gun bay and missile bay (more if they fit) for ortillery support. Probably an irregular structure hull for cost saving and to allow the carried craft to attach rather than be carried internally. This means I probably need to add a fuel shuttle too, or change the hull to a configuration that can be streamlined for scooping. I'd rather keep the ship on station and send a shuttle for fuel. Both have disadvantages but covering the ground force seems more important than the risk of having the fuel shuttle ambushed. And the fighters can run escort on fuel runs.

I'm not convinced that sending for reinforcements should necessitate abandonong the task force. I'd give the JSSD a courier. The courier could be used as a High Guard/ fuel shuttle for the troop ship, to look out for the other side's reinforcements, and could jump out with a mayday in the event of serious trouble.

I thought about having a fleet courier or two accompany the main ship but I think those couriers will be in too high of demand to just wait around for long, so I’m considering adding a messenger ship as another carried craft. Have to see what fits when I get into the ship design.

So this is the latest version. I’m going to start the design work soon but in the meantime I want to fish one more time for ideas. Have I left out a capability that would be important? Is there something organizational that I’ve left out or that needs to be added?

 

[Major B]

The marine organization is from MTU but is partly based on the organization depicted in JTAS #12.

Under the Force HQ are three composite companies. The first is an assault infantry company with two platoons equipped with battle dress and FGMP-14s and possibly grav belts to provide better tactical mobility. This element can conduct orbital insertion using jump capsules to secure a lodgment and can also conduct raids or ambushes that support the overall force directly or indirectly. When not employed in one of these roles, this company would usually remain on the ship as a reserve able to be inserted where and when needed.

I've worked out the details on the Assault Company (-). This company (like the others) is streamlined to eliminate nonessential personnel as much as possible. Total number of Marines (plus Navy attachments) is 70 broken down as follows:

Company HQ: (8 personnel - 5 Marines, 3 Navy)
Team A
Company Commander (Captain-O3)
Senior NCO (First Sergeant-E8)
Operations NCO (Sergeant-E5)
Ortillery Observer (Navy 2nd Class PO-E5)
Team B
Company Executive Officer (1st Lieutenant-O2)
Supply/Admin NCO (Sergeant-E5)
Senior Corpsman (Navy 2nd Class PO-E5)
Ortillery Observer (Navy 3rd Class PO-E4)

Two platoons: (each with 31 personnel - 30 Marines, 1 Navy)
HQ Team
Platoon Leader (1st or 2nd Lieutenant-O2/1)
Platoon Sergeant (Leading Sergeant-E7)
Commo/Runner (Lance Sergeant-E4)
Corpsman (Navy 3rd Class PO-E4 or below)
3x Squads each with 9 personnel
Squad Leader (Gunnery Sergeant-E6)
Team Leader (Sergeant-E5)
Team Leader (Lance Sergeant-E4)
2x Asst Team Leaders (Corporal-E3)
2x Troopers (Lance Corporal-E2)
2x Troopers (Private-E1)

When I worked the organization out I thought that the Co HQ could split into two teams (shown above) and ride in command/control craft able to relay communications, monitor the situation on the ground, provide supporting fire, and land to pick up casualties when needed. Just a thought at this point - I'll have to see if I can make it work.

The rest of the ground force will follow soon.

 

[Major B]

The marine organization is from MTU but is partly based on the organization depicted in JTAS #12.

Under the Force HQ are three composite companies. ...

The second company is a composite mechanized formation with two infantry platoons mounted in Grav APCs (I’m thinking of the Empress from 101 vehicles) and two light armor platoons (I’m using the M109 Prodromoi I designed for this). This company has two assault landing craft each carrying half of the company to conduct rapid descent to the surface, and the grav vehicles themselves are capable of making the trip from orbit to the surface and back if the tactical situation allows it. Because this element has excellent tactical mobility I see them normally employed as a consolidated reserve force on the surface, although they can also split into two or four subordinate elements to be dispersed over a wider area.

The composite mechanized company (-) (also stripped of nonessential personnel) totals 113 personnel, broken down as follows:

Company HQ: (11 personnel - 9 Marines, 2 Navy)
Empress APC Driver (Corporal-E3)
Empress APC Commander (Sergeant-E5)
Company Commander (Captain-O3)
Company XO (1st Lieutenant-O2)
Senior NCO (First Sergeant-E8)
Operations NCO (Sergeant-E5)
Senior Corpsman (Navy 2nd Class PO-E5)
Ortillery Observer (Navy 2nd Class PO-E5)
Maintenance NCO (Lance Sergeant-E4)
Maintenance Tech (Corporal-E3)
Maintenance Tech (Lance Corporal-E2)

Two mechanized platoons: (each with 43 personnel - 41 Marines, 2 Navy)
Headquarters
Empress APC Driver (Corporal-E3)
Empress APC Commander (Sergeant-E5)
Platoon Leader (1st or 2nd Lieutenant-O2/1)
Platoon Sergeant (Leading Sergeant-E7)
Corpsman (Navy 3rd Class PO-E4 or below)
Ortillery Observer (Navy 3rd Class PO-E4)
Team Leader (Sergeant-E5)
Asst Team Leader (Corporal-E3)
Trooper (Lance Corporal-E2)
Trooper (Private-E1)
1st Squad
Empress APC Driver (Corporal-E3)
Empress APC Commander (Sergeant-E5)
Squad Leader (Gunnery Sergeant-E6)
Team Leader (Sergeant-E5)
Team Leader (Lance Sergeant-E4)
2x Asst Team Leaders (Corporal-E3)
2x Troopers (Lance Corporal-E2)
2x Troopers (Private-E1)
2nd and 3rd Squads each with
Empress APC Driver (Lance Corporal-E2)
Empress APC Commander (Lance Sergeant-E4)
Squad Leader (Gunnery Sergeant-E6)
Team Leader (Sergeant-E5)
Team Leader (Lance Sergeant-E4)
2x Asst Team Leaders (Corporal-E3)
2x Troopers (Lance Corporal-E2)
2x Troopers (Private-E1)

Light armored platoon: (with 8 personnel - all Marines)
A Section
Platoon Leader (1st or 2nd Lieutenant-O2/1)
Cavalry Scout (Corporal-E3)
B Section
Section Leader (Sergeant-E5)
Cavalry Scout (Lance Corporal-E2)
C Section
Platoon Sergeant (Gunnery Sergeant-E6)
Cavalry Scout (Lance Corporal-E2)
D Section
Section Leader (Lance Sergeant-E4)
Cavalry Scout (Corporal-E3)

Light armored platoon: (with 8 personnel - all Marines)
A Section
Platoon Leader (Leading Sergeant-E7)
Cavalry Scout (Corporal-E3)
B Section
Section Leader (Sergeant-E5)
Cavalry Scout (Lance Corporal-E2)
C Section
Platoon Sergeant (Gunnery Sergeant-E6)
Cavalry Scout (Lance Corporal-E2)
D Section
Section Leader (Lance Sergeant-E4)
Cavalry Scout (Corporal-E3)

This represents a couple of changes from the organization in JTAS#12. Most significantly, I reduced the mech platoons from 5 squads to 3 and added a extra fire team to the platoon HQ to mitigate somewhat. This is because the platoon seemed cumbersome and the organization had to be streamlined as much as possible, especially given the space the APCs will take up on board the ship.

One other note: The light armor platoons are commanded by either an officer or senior NCO (E7) - in this organization I show one of each. Each platoon has eight one-man tanks (see the M109 Prodromoi I posted in the file library).