Newbie question about characteristic rolling.

[loudriver23]

I haven't played Traveller in a couple of decades sadly, and I'm going to get back into it using the Mongoose rule set.
I wanted to roll up a test character, but got stuck on the first step.
I'm a little confused as the TMB states that I'm to use 2D6 to generate my characteristics. The Characteristic Modifier gives a 12 +2 for a modified characteristic of 14. It states that the max Characteristic for an unmodified human is 15. How is that possible?
They name something called a dice modifier, which I guess at +3 would give a maximum of 15, but I didn't see where the DM's are listed.
Thanks in advance.

 

[aramis]

That +2 is for use with skills, not an addition to the rolled stat.
When you roll tasks, you use a skill, adding its value, and the modifier from the stat (your 12 is thus adding 2). Table is p.6, left col.

Stat of 15-17: +3 on task rolls involving that stat
Stat of 12-14: +2 on task rolls involving that stat
Stat of 9-11: +1 on task rolls involving that stat
Stat of 6-8: no modifier on task rolls involving that stat
Stat of 3-5: -1 on task rolls involving that stat

 

[loudriver23]

I guess my question is, how can one have a characteristic of > 12?

 

[hdan]

I guess my question is, how can one have a characteristic of > 12?

During your career, you can increase stats on the Personal Development table, but not higher than 15. Nobody starts higher than 12. Well, not Humans at any rate.

 

[loudriver23]

Thanks Hdan, that makes sense now. This character creation system is definitly more involved that Call of Cthulhu.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

i find that i like it, it makes the characters feel less like a collection of stats and skills and more like a actaul character, with a history. even fresh out hte box, they have more history than some DND charcters i have played.

 

[nats]

I found that was the only thing I liked in Mongoose Traveller was the character generation it is better than Classic Traveller - but its downnside is it takes ages to get a character drawn up - it is almost like a sidegame that can take you all night I found. No good if you want to roll a few quick patrons or something though. When all is said it works well for player characters but I prefer CT system for NPCs. Its easy enough to make up a quick background for CT characters with a bit of imagination. This is why I left MGT behind in the end though too much prescription on how to do things, too many rules, and not enough flexibility.

 

[MongooseMatt]

No good if you want to roll a few quick patrons or something though. When all is said it works well for player characters but I prefer CT system for NPCs. Its easy enough to make up a quick background for CT characters with a bit of imagination. This is why I left MGT behind in the end though too much prescription on how to do things, too many rules, and not enough flexibility.

Umm, why roll patrons in the first place? I just pick the characteristics I want, and add skills to taste - we deliberately kept the stat line simple so you could do just that.

The core character creation system is designed for a group to sit down and roll characters up together (hence the event/skill-linking) during a session, but there is no need for NPCs to be held to the same standards. The system is flexible enough for you to simply assign them what you want.

 

[fiat_knox]

I get my players to roll 3d6, and drop the lowest rolled die. That gives them a good chance of having characteristics in a comfortable range.

Of course they still run the risk of rolling all 1s or 1,1,2 or something dreadful, but set against that is the chance of rolling 6,6,5 and ending up with a 12 rather than the 11 they would have got from just 2d6.

 

[aramis]

Umm, why roll patrons in the first place? I just pick the characteristics I want, and add skills to taste - we deliberately kept the stat line simple so you could do just that.

The core character creation system is designed for a group to sit down and roll characters up together (hence the event/skill-linking) during a session, but there is no need for NPCs to be held to the same standards. The system is flexible enough for you to simply assign them what you want.

1) Because it is actually traditional to Traveller
2) Inspiration out of the randomization
3) Lack of prep time
4) consistency with the PC Generation (Especially with some of the odd gaps in MGT CGen)

 

[MongooseMatt]

1) Because it is actually traditional to Traveller
2) Inspiration out of the randomization
3) Lack of prep time
4) consistency with the PC Generation (Especially with some of the odd gaps in MGT CGen)

1. Fair enough, but I don't know if we could call it a sacred cow.
2. This is a good point, but surely you could get just as far using the traits table in the Encounters chapter, maybe combing it with a couple of rolls on a suitable Events table?
3. Come on, this way is way, way quicker
4. I am not sure this is really needed - after all, as Traveller players, we are not amazingly concerned with balance, are we? If you know what a Marine looks like, it is a simple matter to assign suitable skills.

I'm just suggesting a quicker way of doing things!

 

[MongooseMatt]

I get my players to roll 3d6, and drop the lowest rolled die. That gives them a good chance of having characteristics in a comfortable range.

I always wondered about this - and I wonder if you and your players are strong D&Ders, or have been in the past.

In many D6-based character creation systems, getting a 2 or 3 on a stat is a bad, bad thing. If it is on Intelligence, you may as well be a gibbon, if it is on Strength, you are a gnat.

However, in Traveller, it just means a -1 or -2 modifier - not great, but easily compensated for by smart play, external modifiers and skills. You could have Dexterity 3 but if you have Gun Combat 1, you are still not a _bad_ shot by any means.

The curve is much smoother in Traveller.

Of course, if you have a bad stat and are trying something that is completely unfamiliar to you, then Bad Things start to happen. But that is kinda like real life

 

[rancke]

In many D6-based character creation systems, getting a 2 or 3 on a stat is a bad, bad thing. If it is on Intelligence, you may as well be a gibbon, if it is on Strength, you are a gnat.

However, in Traveller, it just means a -1 or -2 modifier - not great, but easily compensated for by smart play, external modifiers and skills. You could have Dexterity 3 but if you have Gun Combat 1, you are still not a _bad_ shot by any means.

Well, I always hated low Int and Edu scores. If you can't have more than five or six skill points total, you're more constrained than I care for.

Also, of course, it makes no sense that someone with high physical stats and low mental stats can't have high physical skills. That's why I came up with a house rule that divided skills into Physical, Mental, and "in between" (e.g. Mechanics) and upped the limit on physical skill levels to Str+Dex, Mental skill levels to Int+Edu, and total number of skill levels to Str+Dex+Int+Edu (i.e. you could count the "in between" skills (never came up with a good term for them) against either the physical or the mental limit).


Hans

 

[jawillroy]

I get my players to roll 3d6, and drop the lowest rolled die. That gives them a good chance of having characteristics in a comfortable range.

I generally found that this tended towards over-compensation. My Fudge Of Choice is to allow a player to swap his SOC with any other lower stat... basically, allowing the player to raise any one stat at the expense of reducing his Social status.

 

[shadowlord]

Since MgT allows players to put stats where they want I don't see a problem with either just rolling 2D6 or 3D6 and dropping lowest Number.
A quick question How do you gentlemen handle the following situation. a character makes his enlistment roll into the career of choice, makes his survival roll but fails his advacement roll despite all die modifiers ( ex needs a 5+ and rolls a 2). This is his first term, and ass the rules state if you roll equall to or lower that your term he can't continue in that service. Well he rolled higer than the term but still failed the advancment, any ideas?

 

[aramis]

1. Fair enough, but I don't know if we could call it a sacred cow.
2. This is a good point, but surely you could get just as far using the traits table in the Encounters chapter, maybe combing it with a couple of rolls on a suitable Events table?
3. Come on, this way is way, way quicker
4. I am not sure this is really needed - after all, as Traveller players, we are not amazingly concerned with balance, are we? If you know what a Marine looks like, it is a simple matter to assign suitable skills.

I'm just suggesting a quicker way of doing things!

Matt, your lack of actual Traveller experience is showing.

With CT or MT, for a Quick NPC, Roll stats, pick number of terms, add officer rank #, roll that many d3's/d4's (for table) and d6's (for which skill on the table). For each d4, pick closest d6, that gives which skill table. And that makes truly fast and random NPC's on the drop of a hat without having to think about it. (Further, it's readily automated.) And note that rank number should be no higher than Terms+1. Add automatics.

It can skill be done that way with MGT, but unlike CT, this won't actually replicate the skill mix of a full-generated character.

Quite a few Traveller GM's have strong simulationist tendencies. Yes, having character match with CGen is VITAL to them. And having CGen make sense is also vital. (Only one glaring issue in the MGT core: scouts can only get gunnery via events.)

I wrote a basic program for a MT marine in-service game... generated the whole damned regiment as characters. Every one had full stats, and full skills.

MGT can't be similarly done.

 

[aramis]

Since MgT allows players to put stats where they want I don't see a problem with either just rolling 2D6 or 3D6 and dropping lowest Number.
A quick question How do you gentlemen handle the following situation. a character makes his enlistment roll into the career of choice, makes his survival roll but fails his advacement roll despite all die modifiers ( ex needs a 5+ and rolls a 2). This is his first term, and ass the rules state if you roll equall to or lower that your term he can't continue in that service. Well he rolled higer than the term but still failed the advancment, any ideas?

He can continue in service, but is still rank 0.

And the distribution on 3d6 drop low is quite different from 2d6:
Out of 216 rolls:

N = 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12
2d6 06 12 18 24 30 36 30 24 18 12 06
3k2 01 03 07 12 19 27 34 36 34 27 16

Its pretty steep; here's a 216 roll ideal histogram
02 ******
03 ************
04 ******************
05 ************************
06 ******************************
07 ************************************
08 **********************************
09 ************************************
10 **********************************
11 *************************
12 ****************
* both
* 3d6 drop lowest only
* 2d6 only

 

[McPerth]

I get my players to roll 3d6, and drop the lowest rolled die.

As in taveller good stats are not as an asset as bad stats are a liability (mostly physical ones, once the shoting starts) and average ones are usually good enough, I used to give my players the possibility to roll 2d6 or to roll 4d6 and drop the higher and the lower dice, so having more average (at least on stats) characters

Matt, your lack of actual Traveller experience is showing.

With CT or MT, for a Quick NPC, Roll stats, pick number of terms, add officer rank #, roll that many d3's/d4's (for table) and d6's (for which skill on the table). For each d4, pick closest d6, that gives which skill table. And that makes truly fast and random NPC's on the drop of a hat without having to think about it. (Further, it's readily automated.) And note that rank number should be no higher than Terms+1. Add automatics.

It can skill be done that way with MGT, but unlike CT, this won't actually replicate the skill mix of a full-generated character.

Quite a few Traveller GM's have strong simulationist tendencies. Yes, having character match with CGen is VITAL to them. And having CGen make sense is also vital. (Only one glaring issue in the MGT core: scouts can only get gunnery via events.)

I wrote a basic program for a MT marine in-service game... generated the whole damned regiment as characters. Every one had full stats, and full skills.

MGT can't be similarly done.

If you used advanced CGen things were not as easy nor quick...

I used to have several pregenerated characters to be used when I needed an NPC other than an extra or spear carrier (for those, who really cares about their stats?).

And, anyway, at least among my friends, create a character was viewed nearly as fun as playing with it.

 

[aramis]

If you used advanced CGen things were not as easy nor quick...

I avoided Advanced for that very reason.

basic had a number of useful shortcuts for GMing. Ones shared GM to GM and GM to players.

The terms+rank shortcut, in CT, pretty much leaves 1 level left, plus rank and service skills. In MT, it leaves 0-3 per term unfilled, usually about 1.

But it's fast, and works well. And unlike Matts "method," the resulting character always could be generated with basic gen.

 

[Icosahedron]

Personally, I prefer Mongoose's chargen system. I liked the extra detail in the CT Advanced system, but it was a PITA to crawl through. Mongoose offers much of the detail, but with a simpler structure, IMO.
However, for me most of that is moot, since I've become idle in my old age and I tend to prefer point-buy systems now - they give a more integrated personality, anyway - eg the scout who can't get gunnery skill, or the thief who doesn't manage to roll Stealth...
With point-buy you get a proper scout and a proper burglar whose skills depend solely on their experience (age) and characteristics.
For point-buy, the MgT system on p40 is the best I've seen.