Or it is saying that a character with the reflexes of an Olympic Gymnast, the physique of a Sumo Wrestler and the intellect of a Nuclear Physicist might be a bit unbalancing for the game mechanics ... so nobody gets to be great at everything.
T4 Only: Suggestions for a "points based" system of character generation.
- Thread starter ManOfGrey
- Start date
Or it is saying that a character with the reflexes of an Olympic Gymnast, the physique of a Sumo Wrestler and the intellect of a Nuclear Physicist might be a bit unbalancing for the game mechanics ... so nobody gets to be great at everything.
T4 mechanics made it supremely easy....
Term 1 characters got between 5 and 10 levels (4 years, 1st term; Commission, Promotion, Special Duty, Rank & Service; later terms 4-8... and skill 1 avoiding the unskilled penalty... plus the skill tables being "Roll or Pick"...
so looking at the game setting you propose it occured to me that a prospector might be a good fit - some industrial motivation, some archeological expertise, some wilderness experience. I have such a character set up in my own system, but perhaps you could walk me through generating a prospector in your system as you see it.
ManOfGrey
SOC-12
Taking a step back. Perhaps I should explain.
I began this thread to discuss a possible way to address the problem of using characters generated using T4's character generation system in conjunction with T4's task system, and the problems many have perceived with how the two interact. I began this discussion with the assumption the people interested in it would already have a basic idea of the game mechanics of T4, and how this interaction occurs. It is just now occurring to me that everyone may not be familiar with the mechanics of T4, which is somewhat different than classic Traveller or MegaTraveller.
Please allow me to take a minute and try to explain the fundamental problem as I understand it. Perhaps that will make the proposed solution a little more clear.
A major change that was made in T4, (which has been carried over to T5, I believe,) is the task system begins by assigning a base roll for a task based on a character's characteristic number. For example, if a character wants to succeed on a task based on Strength, then the starting point for that roll is the character's Strength rating. If the character has a Strength of 8, then the roll is 8 or less, plus the appropriate skill. Brawling is a perfect example. Let's say a character had a Strength of 8 and a Brawling skill of 2. Then to hit another character in combat using Brawling, requires this character to roll a 8+2 = 10 or less. On 2d6. That is not a difficult roll.
Now like many things, I believe there are positive and negative aspects to this game mechanic.
The positive aspect, I mentioned before. I believe it is a good way to emulate the idea that someone with a higher characteristic should be better at a task than someone with a lower characteristic. Someone with a Strength of 9 should have a better roll than someone with a Strength of 8. This game mechanic takes this into account using a 1:1 ratio. One point of Strength will increase the odds of success by one.
There have been several examples given in this thread of how this mechanic has caused problems.
For example:
Exactly. If the sum of attributes average close to 60, that's easy math. 60/6 characteristics = 10. That's an average UPP of AAAAAA.
Back to our Brawling example. With a Strength of A, and a Brawling of 2, a character would have to roll 10+2 = 12 or less on 2d6. This character would never fail that task.
And if everyone's UPP is AAAAAA, then there is practically no task they can fail at if they just have a skill level of -1 or -2, for a "Average" skill roll. Even if the difficulty is "Difficult," that's just a roll on 2.5d6. In my opinion, 11 or 12 or less is not a "difficult" roll when the average on 2.5d6 is 9, and the maximum you can roll is 15.
So, that got me thinking. (Obviously, that was a bad sign.
) How can I have my cake an eat it too? How can such an elegant task system be preserved? What can be "tweaked" to make this work?
In an earlier post, I explored several options that have been recommended by others. The forth option, the one that I explore here, in concept, is simple. Players simply cannot generate a character whose average UPP is AAAAAA. They are "forced" to generate a character whose average UPP is 777777. Which gives a character an average base roll of 7 or less when performing an "Average" task on 2d6. Which, not coincidentally, is practically the same as the roll of an "Average" skill roll, or task roll, in either classic Traveller, or MegaTraveller.
Now, I don't believe every character should just be assigned a UPP of 777777. The fun of RPGs is the variation in characters. I'm suggesting you can "buy" characteristics that give you a base roll greater than 7. But for every characteristic you buy that gives you base roll greater than 7, this has to be balanced out by another characteristic whose base roll is now less than 7. If one goes up, then another must come down. That is how an average of 7 is maintained. QED.
I began this thread to discuss a possible way to address the problem of using characters generated using T4's character generation system in conjunction with T4's task system, and the problems many have perceived with how the two interact. I began this discussion with the assumption the people interested in it would already have a basic idea of the game mechanics of T4, and how this interaction occurs. It is just now occurring to me that everyone may not be familiar with the mechanics of T4, which is somewhat different than classic Traveller or MegaTraveller.
Please allow me to take a minute and try to explain the fundamental problem as I understand it. Perhaps that will make the proposed solution a little more clear.
A major change that was made in T4, (which has been carried over to T5, I believe,) is the task system begins by assigning a base roll for a task based on a character's characteristic number. For example, if a character wants to succeed on a task based on Strength, then the starting point for that roll is the character's Strength rating. If the character has a Strength of 8, then the roll is 8 or less, plus the appropriate skill. Brawling is a perfect example. Let's say a character had a Strength of 8 and a Brawling skill of 2. Then to hit another character in combat using Brawling, requires this character to roll a 8+2 = 10 or less. On 2d6. That is not a difficult roll.
Now like many things, I believe there are positive and negative aspects to this game mechanic.
The positive aspect, I mentioned before. I believe it is a good way to emulate the idea that someone with a higher characteristic should be better at a task than someone with a lower characteristic. Someone with a Strength of 9 should have a better roll than someone with a Strength of 8. This game mechanic takes this into account using a 1:1 ratio. One point of Strength will increase the odds of success by one.
There have been several examples given in this thread of how this mechanic has caused problems.
For example:
Exactly. If the sum of attributes average close to 60, that's easy math. 60/6 characteristics = 10. That's an average UPP of AAAAAA.
Back to our Brawling example. With a Strength of A, and a Brawling of 2, a character would have to roll 10+2 = 12 or less on 2d6. This character would never fail that task.
And if everyone's UPP is AAAAAA, then there is practically no task they can fail at if they just have a skill level of -1 or -2, for a "Average" skill roll. Even if the difficulty is "Difficult," that's just a roll on 2.5d6. In my opinion, 11 or 12 or less is not a "difficult" roll when the average on 2.5d6 is 9, and the maximum you can roll is 15.
So, that got me thinking. (Obviously, that was a bad sign.
) How can I have my cake an eat it too? How can such an elegant task system be preserved? What can be "tweaked" to make this work?In an earlier post, I explored several options that have been recommended by others. The forth option, the one that I explore here, in concept, is simple. Players simply cannot generate a character whose average UPP is AAAAAA. They are "forced" to generate a character whose average UPP is 777777. Which gives a character an average base roll of 7 or less when performing an "Average" task on 2d6. Which, not coincidentally, is practically the same as the roll of an "Average" skill roll, or task roll, in either classic Traveller, or MegaTraveller.
Now, I don't believe every character should just be assigned a UPP of 777777. The fun of RPGs is the variation in characters. I'm suggesting you can "buy" characteristics that give you a base roll greater than 7. But for every characteristic you buy that gives you base roll greater than 7, this has to be balanced out by another characteristic whose base roll is now less than 7. If one goes up, then another must come down. That is how an average of 7 is maintained. QED.
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Yes, and that's what I don't like about T4. To caomapre with other systems I know (this is alredy discussed in the post I linked before):
This same average player, 777777 , skill 1 trying to do an average task:
- In CT: it was assumed 8+ , with a +1 due to skill, so it needed 7+ roll in 2d6, slightly over average
- in MT: an average task needed 7+. Stat 7 gave +1, and skill another +1, s oyou needed to roll 5+. Quite easier (one of the flaws of MT, IMHO, as task rolls were too low for average tasks)
- in T4: stat + sill is 8, so you need to roll 8- on 2d6. about halfway among CT and MT
- in MgT: needs 8+, with no stat DM and +1 for skill: as CT.
- In CT: we asume the referee assigns a -2 DM (or that you need 10+ to success) , stat DMs varied, but ir used to be a +1 or +2, So, with a +1 due to skill, so it needed 7-8+ roll in 2d6.
- in MT: an difficult task needed 11+. Stat 13 gave +2, and skill another +1, s oyou needed to roll 8+. More or less like CT
- in T4: stat + sill is 14, so you need to roll 14- on 2.5d6. Only fail in catastrophic failure...
- in MgT: needs 10+, with `2 du t ostat and +1 for skill you'd need a 7+.
- In CT it would have an average EDU of 10+ and Medic skill 3 . So it probably would have a DN of +4 or +5 (depending on how the referee assigns the DMs due to stats.
- In MT its EDU will be again about 10+ and medic skill 3. SO its DM will be +5, being able to handle dificult tasks more often than not (6+), a Fromidable one sometimes (10+, as target is 15+) and he cannot with ain imposible task (of course, cautious attempts may change those numbers)
- In T4, EDU will be 15 (even if he began with 4, the mínimum for college, he'd earned +4 at college, +1 for honors, +6 at Medical School, and medic skill 3. So its target number wil lbe 18, he can dafely handle any task up to Formidable (3d6) ,and even an Impossible task (4d6) wil lbe quite safe for him....
- MgT has not such Medical School, no i don't use it in this comparison.
ManOfGrey
SOC-12
Great example! Thank you for choosing a 13 as the "relevant" stat!
This is a great example, since you chose the "relevant" stat as 13. It illustrates exactly what I'm suggesting. Using the "point buy" system I have outlined above, if you work out the math, this player may only choose one stat to be 13. This uses up all of their characteristic points. Since your next example was a Medic, I am going to assume the player chose Intelligence to be that characteristic. Assuming this is what happens, this character's UPP is 555D55.
You're correct. He's a super-genius. But that's all he does. Yes. On any Intelligence based skill, he can almost never fail a Difficult task.
But on any other Difficult task roll, based on any other stat with a skill of 1, his odds are 5+1 = 6 or less on 2.5d6. The average roll on 2.5d6 is 9. He will fail 84.3% of all (skill-1) Difficult tasks he tries, besides ones based on Intelligence.
If someone wants to make a character that throws all their eggs in one basket like this, that fine, as far as I'm concerned. As long as they have to give up something in return. No one gets to do everything! If this example character wants to shoot a gun, pilot a spaceship, or use a vacc suit, and it's a Difficult task, he will only succeed 15.7% of the time. That's the consequence of having a 13 Intelligence. If one stat goes up, then one stat has to come down. If one stat goes up a lot, then a lot of stats have to come down.
This is a great example, since you chose the "relevant" stat as 13. It illustrates exactly what I'm suggesting. Using the "point buy" system I have outlined above, if you work out the math, this player may only choose one stat to be 13. This uses up all of their characteristic points. Since your next example was a Medic, I am going to assume the player chose Intelligence to be that characteristic. Assuming this is what happens, this character's UPP is 555D55.
You're correct. He's a super-genius. But that's all he does. Yes. On any Intelligence based skill, he can almost never fail a Difficult task.
But on any other Difficult task roll, based on any other stat with a skill of 1, his odds are 5+1 = 6 or less on 2.5d6. The average roll on 2.5d6 is 9. He will fail 84.3% of all (skill-1) Difficult tasks he tries, besides ones based on Intelligence.
If someone wants to make a character that throws all their eggs in one basket like this, that fine, as far as I'm concerned. As long as they have to give up something in return. No one gets to do everything! If this example character wants to shoot a gun, pilot a spaceship, or use a vacc suit, and it's a Difficult task, he will only succeed 15.7% of the time. That's the consequence of having a 13 Intelligence. If one stat goes up, then one stat has to come down. If one stat goes up a lot, then a lot of stats have to come down.
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In fact, he desn't need so, as I already told:
As explained there, he has good chances to be allowed in the COllege, to perseverate and even to achieve honors, being able to enter Medical School.
And he has yet 29 points to alocate to other stats (again, none is needed for EDU, so only physical ones), being able to be average in most of them...
He then can use some skill rolls in PDT ,as he will end his educational time with at least 8 skill levels (over 50% of having JOT among them) , 2 more if he achieved NOTC, 2 more if he achieved honors in the Medical School, and up to 3 more if he's lucky and does not roll medic in the Medical School table...
And he will begin as O3 in the Navy at 26 years...
ManOfGrey
SOC-12
PS. You're right, his UPP would go up a bit, because of college and medical school.
You're right, his UPP would go up a bit, because of college and medical school. However, what I have failed to communicate is that in your example above, his Education does not go up by (+4+1+6) = 11. In the character generation system I am suggesting, these are characteristic points, and are also spent on a geometrically increasing scale. In the system I describe, his Education begins at 5. He has spent no more points on Education, (in fact you advised against it earlier.) It costs 6 points to bring up his Education to a value of 6. And he has 5 character points left over he can apply later to Education if he so chooses. After completing medical school, his UPP is 555D65.
Skills are also bought on the same geometrically increasing scale. Assuming he studied medicine all four years in college, he would graduate with 4 skill points in Medical. Assuming he then goes on to Medical School, and spends all four years continuing his study in Medicine, he has accumulated a total of 8 skill points in Medical. He spends the first on Medical-1, two more to bring his skill to Medical-2, and three more to bring his skill to Medical-3. This takes 6 skill points, he has 2 left over to use later. In the examples I talked about above, this qualifies him as a Physicians' Assistant. (Granted, with his Intelligence of 13, he's a damn good one! He would have a target number of 13+3 = 16.) However, it will take two more years of training, (i.e. two more skill points,) with his two left over from medical school to raise his skill to Medical-4, at which point he would qualify as a licenced medical doctor, for a total of 10 years of study. (And given his 13 Intelligence, he's got to be one of the best in the galaxy!)
You're right, his UPP would go up a bit, because of college and medical school. However, what I have failed to communicate is that in your example above, his Education does not go up by (+4+1+6) = 11. In the character generation system I am suggesting, these are characteristic points, and are also spent on a geometrically increasing scale. In the system I describe, his Education begins at 5. He has spent no more points on Education, (in fact you advised against it earlier.) It costs 6 points to bring up his Education to a value of 6. And he has 5 character points left over he can apply later to Education if he so chooses. After completing medical school, his UPP is 555D65.
Skills are also bought on the same geometrically increasing scale. Assuming he studied medicine all four years in college, he would graduate with 4 skill points in Medical. Assuming he then goes on to Medical School, and spends all four years continuing his study in Medicine, he has accumulated a total of 8 skill points in Medical. He spends the first on Medical-1, two more to bring his skill to Medical-2, and three more to bring his skill to Medical-3. This takes 6 skill points, he has 2 left over to use later. In the examples I talked about above, this qualifies him as a Physicians' Assistant. (Granted, with his Intelligence of 13, he's a damn good one! He would have a target number of 13+3 = 16.) However, it will take two more years of training, (i.e. two more skill points,) with his two left over from medical school to raise his skill to Medical-4, at which point he would qualify as a licenced medical doctor, for a total of 10 years of study. (And given his 13 Intelligence, he's got to be one of the best in the galaxy!)
ManOfGrey
SOC-12
I'm sorry I'm having such a difficult time explaining these ideas.
The purpose of the system I am suggesting is to make it difficult to generate characters with out-of-this-world stats. As we have discussed, these out-of-this-world characteristics really handicap the task system as presented in T4.
So, please, let me try again. Everything is based on points. You earn points. During a character's career, they earn one point for every year of their career. These points are not spent on a 1-to-1 basis. +1 point does not equal +1 skill. +1 point does not equal +1 characteristic. They are spent in an ever increasing geometric progression.
I certainly feel a character may spend his time studying on the Personal Development Table. I certainly feel a character may spend his points on improving his characteristics. But to raise a characteristic, say Strength from Str-5 to Str-6, it takes 6 points, or 6 years of his career to do so. To raise his Strength from Str-6 to Str-7, it takes 7 more points, or 7 more years to do so. To raise a Str-5 to Str-7 takes 13 years of training. And that's all that character can do, or learn, for those years.
I'm sorry these ideas seem to be so frustrating. It is honestly my intention to suggest a way to make T4 better. The geometric progression I suggest is to keep a character's characteristics and skills from getting out-of-control.
(I am trying to decide whether to re-generate merchant Captain Alexander L. Jamison, the example character in the book, using this system. By the time I am done, he will look very different than he does in the example in the book. He would have neither the high UPP he has in the book, nor the number of skills and/or skill levels as shown in the book. But that's kind of the point of this exercise-- to try to bring character generation to a point where it is more compatible with the task system. I'm just not sure if this would be helpful, or simply more frustrating.)
The purpose of the system I am suggesting is to make it difficult to generate characters with out-of-this-world stats. As we have discussed, these out-of-this-world characteristics really handicap the task system as presented in T4.
So, please, let me try again. Everything is based on points. You earn points. During a character's career, they earn one point for every year of their career. These points are not spent on a 1-to-1 basis. +1 point does not equal +1 skill. +1 point does not equal +1 characteristic. They are spent in an ever increasing geometric progression.
I certainly feel a character may spend his time studying on the Personal Development Table. I certainly feel a character may spend his points on improving his characteristics. But to raise a characteristic, say Strength from Str-5 to Str-6, it takes 6 points, or 6 years of his career to do so. To raise his Strength from Str-6 to Str-7, it takes 7 more points, or 7 more years to do so. To raise a Str-5 to Str-7 takes 13 years of training. And that's all that character can do, or learn, for those years.
I'm sorry these ideas seem to be so frustrating. It is honestly my intention to suggest a way to make T4 better. The geometric progression I suggest is to keep a character's characteristics and skills from getting out-of-control.
(I am trying to decide whether to re-generate merchant Captain Alexander L. Jamison, the example character in the book, using this system. By the time I am done, he will look very different than he does in the example in the book. He would have neither the high UPP he has in the book, nor the number of skills and/or skill levels as shown in the book. But that's kind of the point of this exercise-- to try to bring character generation to a point where it is more compatible with the task system. I'm just not sure if this would be helpful, or simply more frustrating.)
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ManOfGrey
SOC-12
Merchant Captian Alexander L. Jamison
I suppose I will give this a try. Please bear with me.
As I do this, you might need to see the character's backstory from the book. I don't want to change that. I just want to illustrate how these characteristic and skill points are used to generate a character. Again, Jamison will not have the same statistics using the system suggested above, and the one as written in the book.
He begins with 80 characteristic points. To keep the math simple, I will generate a character with the following statistics, 6,6,7,7,8,8. I will try to keep at least the priorities of the characteristics as they are listed in the book.
Str: 6 (cost: 6 points)
Dex: 7 (cost: 6+7 points)
End: 7 (cost 6+7 points)
Int: 8 (cost 6+7+8 points)
Edu: 6 (cost 6 points)
SS: 8 (cost 6+7+8) points
(total characteristic points spent: 80 points)
He gets four background skills: Ground Craft-1, Equestrian-1, Computer-1, Perception-1.
In his backstory, he is forced to enlist in the Merchants, and serves for five terms. Therefore, he spends (4x5=) 20 years in the service, and receives 20 points for skills.
In the book he chooses 14 skills other than the 4 listed above. To have these same 14 skills at a skill level-1 each, it costs him 14 skill points. He has (20-14=) 6 points left over.
He may spend the rest of these 6 points to raise three skills to level-2, and does so.
In the story in the book, he suffers aging. Dex-1. His Dexterity drops from Dex-7 to Dex-6. He gets 7 points "refunded" for this. He spends these "extra" points on skills. He spends 3 of these 7 points to raise one skill level from level-2 to level-3. The other 4 points he uses to raise two level-1 skills to level-2 skills.
Final character:
Merchant Captian Alexander L. Jamison:
UPP: 667868
Acting-1, Brawling-1, Carousing-1, Electronics-2, First-Aid-1, Ground Craft-1, Long Blade-1, Pilot-3, Trader-2, Administration-2, Broker-1, Computer-1, Equestrian-1, Forgery-1, Law-1, Perception-1, Pistol-2, Vacc Suit-1
I believe this is a very well balanced character. I believe it will allow a player to interact with T4's task system in such a way it will be both challenging and fun.
For example:
His best skill is Pilot-3. He has a Dexterity of 6. This gives him a target number for Pilot of 9.
An Average skill roll would be 2d6. He would be successful on a 9 or less, much better than a 50/50 chance. A Difficult skill roll would be 2.5d6. He would be successful on a 9 or less, or right at a 50/50 chance.
His best characteristic is Intelligence-8. Coupled with (one of) his best Intelligence-based skill of Electronics-2, gives him a target number for Electronics of 10.
An Average skill roll would be 2d6. He would be successful on a 10 or less, which is very probable. A Difficult skill roll would be 2.5d6. He would be successful on a 10 or less, or just over a 50/50 chance.
I did suggest the difficulty factor for the range bands be increased by one difficulty level.
With a Pistol-2, and a Dexterity-6, he would have a target number of 8. To shoot, (a snap attack,) someone at Contact range: 8 or less on 2d6, at Very Short range: 8 or less on 2.5d6, and at Short range: 8 or less on 3d6.
If he were wearing Flex armor, he would suffer a -2 penalty. This would make his snap attack chances at Contact range: 6 or less on 2d6, at Very Short range: 6 or less on 2.5d6, and at Short range: 6 or less on 3d6.
I suppose I will give this a try. Please bear with me.
As I do this, you might need to see the character's backstory from the book. I don't want to change that. I just want to illustrate how these characteristic and skill points are used to generate a character. Again, Jamison will not have the same statistics using the system suggested above, and the one as written in the book.
He begins with 80 characteristic points. To keep the math simple, I will generate a character with the following statistics, 6,6,7,7,8,8. I will try to keep at least the priorities of the characteristics as they are listed in the book.
Str: 6 (cost: 6 points)
Dex: 7 (cost: 6+7 points)
End: 7 (cost 6+7 points)
Int: 8 (cost 6+7+8 points)
Edu: 6 (cost 6 points)
SS: 8 (cost 6+7+8) points
(total characteristic points spent: 80 points)
He gets four background skills: Ground Craft-1, Equestrian-1, Computer-1, Perception-1.
In his backstory, he is forced to enlist in the Merchants, and serves for five terms. Therefore, he spends (4x5=) 20 years in the service, and receives 20 points for skills.
In the book he chooses 14 skills other than the 4 listed above. To have these same 14 skills at a skill level-1 each, it costs him 14 skill points. He has (20-14=) 6 points left over.
He may spend the rest of these 6 points to raise three skills to level-2, and does so.
In the story in the book, he suffers aging. Dex-1. His Dexterity drops from Dex-7 to Dex-6. He gets 7 points "refunded" for this. He spends these "extra" points on skills. He spends 3 of these 7 points to raise one skill level from level-2 to level-3. The other 4 points he uses to raise two level-1 skills to level-2 skills.
Final character:
Merchant Captian Alexander L. Jamison:
UPP: 667868
Acting-1, Brawling-1, Carousing-1, Electronics-2, First-Aid-1, Ground Craft-1, Long Blade-1, Pilot-3, Trader-2, Administration-2, Broker-1, Computer-1, Equestrian-1, Forgery-1, Law-1, Perception-1, Pistol-2, Vacc Suit-1
I believe this is a very well balanced character. I believe it will allow a player to interact with T4's task system in such a way it will be both challenging and fun.
For example:
His best skill is Pilot-3. He has a Dexterity of 6. This gives him a target number for Pilot of 9.
An Average skill roll would be 2d6. He would be successful on a 9 or less, much better than a 50/50 chance. A Difficult skill roll would be 2.5d6. He would be successful on a 9 or less, or right at a 50/50 chance.
His best characteristic is Intelligence-8. Coupled with (one of) his best Intelligence-based skill of Electronics-2, gives him a target number for Electronics of 10.
An Average skill roll would be 2d6. He would be successful on a 10 or less, which is very probable. A Difficult skill roll would be 2.5d6. He would be successful on a 10 or less, or just over a 50/50 chance.
I did suggest the difficulty factor for the range bands be increased by one difficulty level.
With a Pistol-2, and a Dexterity-6, he would have a target number of 8. To shoot, (a snap attack,) someone at Contact range: 8 or less on 2d6, at Very Short range: 8 or less on 2.5d6, and at Short range: 8 or less on 3d6.
If he were wearing Flex armor, he would suffer a -2 penalty. This would make his snap attack chances at Contact range: 6 or less on 2d6, at Very Short range: 6 or less on 2.5d6, and at Short range: 6 or less on 3d6.
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Assign 567789 to stats in the order you want.
Determine number of terms served.
Receive 4 points per term to spend (with optional bonus points for commission and promotion, career automatic skills or a bonus point if the career has no commission/promotion) - no characteristic can be raised by more than one per term served. A skill can be raised by two per term once, thereafter it can only increase by one per term.
So a term 1 character could have 1,1,1,1 or 2,1,1 or 2,2 in skills. Skill cap is thus terms served plus 1 - no skill will have a value higher than this, so a three term scout ace pilot can have no more than pilot 4 etc.
Failed aging rolls refund nothing - you lose the characteristic point(s).
Determine number of terms served.
Receive 4 points per term to spend (with optional bonus points for commission and promotion, career automatic skills or a bonus point if the career has no commission/promotion) - no characteristic can be raised by more than one per term served. A skill can be raised by two per term once, thereafter it can only increase by one per term.
So a term 1 character could have 1,1,1,1 or 2,1,1 or 2,2 in skills. Skill cap is thus terms served plus 1 - no skill will have a value higher than this, so a three term scout ace pilot can have no more than pilot 4 etc.
Failed aging rolls refund nothing - you lose the characteristic point(s).
Ok, then I missunderstood you, probably from your example in post #12, where you talk about how to achieve flight school, and I assumed this was mainly for stats, being the main asset in T4, wanting to balance hem among the players.
As for full point based CharGen, I've never been a big fan of them, asthey use to give clones if a player found the character he likes and it dies (or is to be used in another campaign).
I also like to have some random in CharGen because it forces players to accept weaknesses or strong points he has not chosen, something I find more challenging (and so more interesting). After all, no one of us haschosen his "stats" in real life.
OF course, that's again about my own tastes, and YMMV...
Just another point, the main stat for medical skill in T4 is EDU, not INT, so the INT 13 character you tell above will not be among the best doctors in the world (maybe the best medical investigator, as when dealing with unfamiliar situations, INT is used.
ManOfGrey
SOC-12
Wow! Must be nice!
You still can't have everything. But... I might go with UPP of 875858. Of course he's the quarterback, and probably the Homecoming King as well. So, 8 Strength to pitch the ball, and 7 Dexterity when the offensive line doesn't quite do its job. But he only has an Endurance of 5, so he's no linebacker. He can't be roughed up too much. (He gets hit too many times, he'll be out of the game.) I would translate good grades into a good Intelligence. And good family is a good Social Standing... but hardly royalty.
Strength: 8 (6+7+8=21 points)
Dexterity: 7 (6+7=13 points)
Endurance: 5
Intelligence: 8 (6+7+8=21 points)
Education: 5
Social Standing: 8 (6+7+8=21 points)
Total = 76 points, with 4 left over.
Background skills:
Is he from a "high tech world?" If so, he gets Grav Craft-1, and Computer-1. And he has 4 more points to choose background skills. Oooo! He's on the football team! How about Throwing-1, Athletics-1, Perception-1, (he's the quarterback,) and Brawling-1? (It's been known to happen on the football field.)
So, I'm curious... what's his story now? He graduates high school. What does he do next? College?
You have only so many points. You have to budget. Should I have bought his Social Standing up at the sacrifice of Strength, so he has a better chance to get into Notre Dame? I don't know. We'll try it as is.
College: Prerequisite Education 4+
Admission: 5 or less, +1 if Int 8+, +1 if Soc 9+, +2 if Edu 9+. For this character his roll is 6 or less.
HA! I rolled a 5! Football scholarship!
Perseverance: 7 or less, +1 if End 8+, DM +2 if Int 8+. For this character his roll is 9 or less. Rolled an 8. He graduates!
Honors? 7 or less. (Interestingly, no DMs of any sort.) Rolled a 7 exactly.
College gives him 4 points for Education because he graduated, +1 point for Honors. He'll add 1 of the points he had left over from his characteristics, which brings his Education characteristic to 6.
He ages four years, and gets 4 points to spend on the skills list provided. Too bad that list doesn't include characteristics, otherwise I'd bring up his Endurance. But he still has 3 points left over from his characteristics. That's 7 total he has to spend.
Is he going to follow in Daddy's (or Mommy's) footsteps? (Whose the millionaire in the family?) He'll use 7 points to buy Law-3, and Instruction-1.
So far, he has a UPP of 875868, and his skills include Grav Craft-1, Computer-1, Throwing-1, Athletics-1, Perception-1, Brawling-1, Law-3, Instruction-1. He's just graduated college, and the future looks bright! Where does his career take him from here?
Regardless, the point is... he hasn't made the task system in T4 hiccup too badly. His Law roll is Edu+skill = 9. His Throwing roll is Dex+skill = 8. His Brawling roll is Str+skill = 9. These are not bad rolls. For an Average task, he has make those numbers or less on 2d6, and has a pretty good chance. For a Difficult task, he has to make those numbers or less on 2.5d6, and is running right at a 50/50 chance for each.
But with "only" a Law-3, don't hire him to get OJ Simpson or Jodi Arias off some murder rap. Would that be Staggering (3.5d6)? Or Impossible, (4d6)?
You still can't have everything. But... I might go with UPP of 875858. Of course he's the quarterback, and probably the Homecoming King as well. So, 8 Strength to pitch the ball, and 7 Dexterity when the offensive line doesn't quite do its job. But he only has an Endurance of 5, so he's no linebacker. He can't be roughed up too much. (He gets hit too many times, he'll be out of the game.) I would translate good grades into a good Intelligence. And good family is a good Social Standing... but hardly royalty.
Strength: 8 (6+7+8=21 points)
Dexterity: 7 (6+7=13 points)
Endurance: 5
Intelligence: 8 (6+7+8=21 points)
Education: 5
Social Standing: 8 (6+7+8=21 points)
Total = 76 points, with 4 left over.
Background skills:
Is he from a "high tech world?" If so, he gets Grav Craft-1, and Computer-1. And he has 4 more points to choose background skills. Oooo! He's on the football team! How about Throwing-1, Athletics-1, Perception-1, (he's the quarterback,) and Brawling-1? (It's been known to happen on the football field.)
So, I'm curious... what's his story now? He graduates high school. What does he do next? College?
You have only so many points. You have to budget. Should I have bought his Social Standing up at the sacrifice of Strength, so he has a better chance to get into Notre Dame? I don't know. We'll try it as is.
College: Prerequisite Education 4+
Admission: 5 or less, +1 if Int 8+, +1 if Soc 9+, +2 if Edu 9+. For this character his roll is 6 or less.
HA! I rolled a 5! Football scholarship!
Perseverance: 7 or less, +1 if End 8+, DM +2 if Int 8+. For this character his roll is 9 or less. Rolled an 8. He graduates!
Honors? 7 or less. (Interestingly, no DMs of any sort.) Rolled a 7 exactly.
College gives him 4 points for Education because he graduated, +1 point for Honors. He'll add 1 of the points he had left over from his characteristics, which brings his Education characteristic to 6.
He ages four years, and gets 4 points to spend on the skills list provided. Too bad that list doesn't include characteristics, otherwise I'd bring up his Endurance. But he still has 3 points left over from his characteristics. That's 7 total he has to spend.
Is he going to follow in Daddy's (or Mommy's) footsteps? (Whose the millionaire in the family?) He'll use 7 points to buy Law-3, and Instruction-1.
So far, he has a UPP of 875868, and his skills include Grav Craft-1, Computer-1, Throwing-1, Athletics-1, Perception-1, Brawling-1, Law-3, Instruction-1. He's just graduated college, and the future looks bright! Where does his career take him from here?
Regardless, the point is... he hasn't made the task system in T4 hiccup too badly. His Law roll is Edu+skill = 9. His Throwing roll is Dex+skill = 8. His Brawling roll is Str+skill = 9. These are not bad rolls. For an Average task, he has make those numbers or less on 2d6, and has a pretty good chance. For a Difficult task, he has to make those numbers or less on 2.5d6, and is running right at a 50/50 chance for each.
But with "only" a Law-3, don't hire him to get OJ Simpson or Jodi Arias off some murder rap. Would that be Staggering (3.5d6)? Or Impossible, (4d6)?
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Under the ManOfGrey point buy alternative system, he would not be a PC adventurer.
Just some rough statistics for 2D6 (attribute order is not critical) at age 18:
777777 = Joe Average ... top 50% of population.
C77777 = 1 person in 36 or about top 3% of 18 year old population.
CC7777 = about 1 person in 1,000.
CCC777 = about 1 person in 50,000.
CCCC77 = about 1 person in 2 million.
CCCCC7 = about 1 person in 60 million.
CCCCCC = about 1 person in 2 billion.
Remember that these numbers are the number of 18 year old people and not the total population.
ok, so, athlete with endurance of 5, quarterback with a dexterity of 7, and straight A student with education of 5. got it. it's all about where you set the break points - in my system a 5 is just above a penalty of -1.
well clearly that's not the case in the t4 system.
no problem, just run a CCCCCC adventure. I posted a thread proposing a game like that, didn't get much response.
I have no problem with there being either uber people as modeled or an uberperson campaign/milieu, can't do Doc Savage or a lot of Heinlein without those sort of stats. Just yes threat level commensurate with capability.
That's different then a min/max munchkin.
I go ahead and do a raw STAT-7 DM, no curve, because my view is that there ARE naturally talented people, and people that shouldn't pick up a gun or perform surgery. A CCCCCC is going to wreck most tasks, but that is where no skill hits combined with difficulty kicks in under most Traveller versions.
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