Notes about CT Experience

[Golan2072]

As I'll probably try to tackle the subject of experience and character improvement in CT again soon, I've decided to check a few things in the CT system which would probably be relevant to this.

My current notes are:

1) Under pure LBB1 CharGen, the minimum number of skills you get is a single skill per 4 years; the maximum are 5 skills per 4 years if you get both comissioned an promoted in your first term, and gets an automatic skill as well (1.25 skills per year on average in this extreme case).

2) As far as I could see, LBBs 1-3 do not limit the total number of skills a character may posses. As far as I could see, only LBB8 introduces the limit to the number of skills a character may posses: "A robot may have no more skills (or total of levels of skills) than the sum of its intelligence and education, just as any Traveller character is limited." (p.45)

3) Under LBB4, it is possible for a character to not recieve a skill at all in a single year or even a single term (except for the first year of the first term, which is Basic Training) if he fails al the Skill rolls in that term. On the other hand, it is possible for a very lucky character to aquire 9 skills in a single year if he rolls a Commando School special duty AND rolls 5+ on 1D for each of its 9 skills - this woud be rare but possible. Other Special Assignments give you 2 to 4 skills in maximum in a single year (on a roll of 4+ on 1D for each). Without special assignments, 1 skill per year is the maximum, and the chances of getting one skill per year are not slim.

4) LBB5 is similar in this respect to LBB4, excet for the highest number of skills possible is in the Gunnery School - 7 possible skills in a single year if you're lucky.

6) Under LBB6, up to two skills are possible in a single year if you're assigned to the Ship School, Intelligence School or Ship School or if the haracter has a Special or Wartime Assignment. A character can still fail to get any skills at all in a year or a term.

7) Under LBB7, skills are given in a way similar to the way used in LBBs 4-5, but the maximum is 4 skills per year in several school special assignments.

8) LBB5 introduces pre-enlistment options (college, naval academy, flight school and medical school). The college (4 years) adds to a character's EDU but does not teach any skills; the naval academy (4 years) gives you a somewhat smaller EDU bonus than the college but lets you recieve up to 3 skills; the medical school (4 years) gives you +1 EDU and 4 skills, or +1 and 6 skills if you graduate with honors; the flight school (1 year) gives you 1 to 4 skills.

9) Using the Instruction skill given in LBB4, it is possibe to learn a skill in six weeks of intensive training, which is about 8-9 skills a year, which fits wit nothig but the commando School in terms of intensity. Non-intense training lets you learn a skill in six months (two skills a year), BUT the student must roll 9+ on 2D at the end of this period to recieve the skill with DMs for high intelligence, which means that on average a character will have to invest more than one learning period to get a skill. Also, the ability to teach is restricted by the teachers's Instructor skill AND the teacher's level of the taught skill.

10) Note that, in most cases, a character during CharGen (except for when attending specialist scools and their likes) gets up to a skill per year while engaged in relatively intensive work such as military service or merchant work; characters who dedicate their full time to training in a year may learn far more.

Conclusion: Life-experience alone (including combat!) and on-job training should get a character about one skill point per year if you want to keep the same skill-aquisition pace as in most CT CharGen systems. More intensive schooling sould allow a character to learn 2-4 skills per year on average (which is consistent with the Instruction skill given in LBB4, as you have a significant chance of having to retry learning any particular skill).

My approach to character improvemet in CT would probably be threefold:

1) At the end of each year of adventuring, a character rolls ONE skill on the tables of the career most closest to what he was doing in that year. this represents life-experience, combat-experience and so on.

2) the Instruction skill may be used as given on LBB4; NPC instructors exist, but usualy cost money an typically only allow for low-intensity learning (i.e. 6 months per attempt); intensive learning is going to cost a character alot, in money and/or favors, as it means that the instructor must devote alot of time to the PC. Also, getting instruction for certain skills might be difficult or even illegal.

3) A character may attempt to apply to "pre-enlistment" options (see LBBs 5-7 or my sig) even after chargen, taking the given time for them (1-4 years depending on the option selected) and recieve the normal benefits for them, but NOT recieve the usual "life experience" yearly roll while enrolled in a "pre-enlistment option" (it is subsumed in tht option). Tutition fees might apply; and, fo some options (such as attending the naval academy or flight school post-CharGen) woud require some serious roleplaying to get into.

 

[Golan2072]

As I'll probably try to tackle the subject of experience and character improvement in CT again soon, I've decided to check a few things in the CT system which would probably be relevant to this.

My current notes are:

1) Under pure LBB1 CharGen, the minimum number of skills you get is a single skill per 4 years; the maximum are 5 skills per 4 years if you get both comissioned an promoted in your first term, and gets an automatic skill as well (1.25 skills per year on average in this extreme case).

2) As far as I could see, LBBs 1-3 do not limit the total number of skills a character may posses. As far as I could see, only LBB8 introduces the limit to the number of skills a character may posses: "A robot may have no more skills (or total of levels of skills) than the sum of its intelligence and education, just as any Traveller character is limited." (p.45)

3) Under LBB4, it is possible for a character to not recieve a skill at all in a single year or even a single term (except for the first year of the first term, which is Basic Training) if he fails al the Skill rolls in that term. On the other hand, it is possible for a very lucky character to aquire 9 skills in a single year if he rolls a Commando School special duty AND rolls 5+ on 1D for each of its 9 skills - this woud be rare but possible. Other Special Assignments give you 2 to 4 skills in maximum in a single year (on a roll of 4+ on 1D for each). Without special assignments, 1 skill per year is the maximum, and the chances of getting one skill per year are not slim.

4) LBB5 is similar in this respect to LBB4, excet for the highest number of skills possible is in the Gunnery School - 7 possible skills in a single year if you're lucky.

6) Under LBB6, up to two skills are possible in a single year if you're assigned to the Ship School, Intelligence School or Ship School or if the haracter has a Special or Wartime Assignment. A character can still fail to get any skills at all in a year or a term.

7) Under LBB7, skills are given in a way similar to the way used in LBBs 4-5, but the maximum is 4 skills per year in several school special assignments.

8) LBB5 introduces pre-enlistment options (college, naval academy, flight school and medical school). The college (4 years) adds to a character's EDU but does not teach any skills; the naval academy (4 years) gives you a somewhat smaller EDU bonus than the college but lets you recieve up to 3 skills; the medical school (4 years) gives you +1 EDU and 4 skills, or +1 and 6 skills if you graduate with honors; the flight school (1 year) gives you 1 to 4 skills.

9) Using the Instruction skill given in LBB4, it is possibe to learn a skill in six weeks of intensive training, which is about 8-9 skills a year, which fits wit nothig but the commando School in terms of intensity. Non-intense training lets you learn a skill in six months (two skills a year), BUT the student must roll 9+ on 2D at the end of this period to recieve the skill with DMs for high intelligence, which means that on average a character will have to invest more than one learning period to get a skill. Also, the ability to teach is restricted by the teachers's Instructor skill AND the teacher's level of the taught skill.

10) Note that, in most cases, a character during CharGen (except for when attending specialist scools and their likes) gets up to a skill per year while engaged in relatively intensive work such as military service or merchant work; characters who dedicate their full time to training in a year may learn far more.

Conclusion: Life-experience alone (including combat!) and on-job training should get a character about one skill point per year if you want to keep the same skill-aquisition pace as in most CT CharGen systems. More intensive schooling sould allow a character to learn 2-4 skills per year on average (which is consistent with the Instruction skill given in LBB4, as you have a significant chance of having to retry learning any particular skill).

My approach to character improvemet in CT would probably be threefold:

1) At the end of each year of adventuring, a character rolls ONE skill on the tables of the career most closest to what he was doing in that year. this represents life-experience, combat-experience and so on.

2) the Instruction skill may be used as given on LBB4; NPC instructors exist, but usualy cost money an typically only allow for low-intensity learning (i.e. 6 months per attempt); intensive learning is going to cost a character alot, in money and/or favors, as it means that the instructor must devote alot of time to the PC. Also, getting instruction for certain skills might be difficult or even illegal.

3) A character may attempt to apply to "pre-enlistment" options (see LBBs 5-7 or my sig) even after chargen, taking the given time for them (1-4 years depending on the option selected) and recieve the normal benefits for them, but NOT recieve the usual "life experience" yearly roll while enrolled in a "pre-enlistment option" (it is subsumed in tht option). Tutition fees might apply; and, fo some options (such as attending the naval academy or flight school post-CharGen) woud require some serious roleplaying to get into.

 

[philippe tromeur]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
1) Under pure LBB1 CharGen, the minimum number of skills you get is a single skill per 4 years; the maximum are 5 skills per 4 years if you get both comissioned an promoted in your first term, and gets an automatic skill as well.

In the Army, it's relatively easy to get 6 skills in your first term. (2 for 1st term + 1 automatic for being in the army + 1 for commission + 1 for promotion + 1 automatic for becoming a lieutenant)

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
2)As far as I could see, only LBB8 introduces the limit to the number of skills a character may posses: "A robot may have no more skills (or total of levels of skills) than the sum of its intelligence and education, just as any Traveller character is limited." (p.45)

This limitation was also present in Starter Traveller, and in the Alien Modules (which all cam out before LBB8).

 

[philippe tromeur]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
1) Under pure LBB1 CharGen, the minimum number of skills you get is a single skill per 4 years; the maximum are 5 skills per 4 years if you get both comissioned an promoted in your first term, and gets an automatic skill as well.

In the Army, it's relatively easy to get 6 skills in your first term. (2 for 1st term + 1 automatic for being in the army + 1 for commission + 1 for promotion + 1 automatic for becoming a lieutenant)

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
2)As far as I could see, only LBB8 introduces the limit to the number of skills a character may posses: "A robot may have no more skills (or total of levels of skills) than the sum of its intelligence and education, just as any Traveller character is limited." (p.45)

This limitation was also present in Starter Traveller, and in the Alien Modules (which all cam out before LBB8).

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
1) At the end of each year of adventuring, a character rolls ONE skill on the tables of the career most closest to what he was doing in that year. this represents life-experience, combat-experience and so on.

I like that the existing CT experience system provides skills at the same rate as normal chargen - one per term (that is, eight years to raise two skills by one level permanently). I think once characters have reached the point where they are no longer being trained by an organization with the necessary human resources like trainers or mentors, that a gradual increase in skills makes sense.

For those who want more skills faster, there're always instructors.

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
2) the Instruction skill may be used as given on LBB4; NPC instructors exist, but usualy cost money an typically only allow for low-intensity learning (i.e. 6 months per attempt); intensive learning is going to cost a character alot, in money and/or favors, as it means that the instructor must devote alot of time to the PC. Also, getting instruction for certain skills might be difficult or even illegal.

Typically if we want to increase combat skills we put out a cadre merc ticket for appropriate instructors. Non-combat skills tend to a bit tougher to find, which is fine by me.

As a side note, I allow characters generated under Book 1 or Supplement 4 to take Instruction in lieu of an additional skill level if the character already has (skill)-3+.

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
3) A character may attempt to apply to "pre-enlistment" options (see LBBs 5-7 or my sig) even after chargen, taking the given time for them (1-4 years depending on the option selected) and recieve the normal benefits for them, but NOT recieve the usual "life experience" yearly roll while enrolled in a "pre-enlistment option" (it is subsumed in tht option). Tutition fees might apply; and, fo some options (such as attending the naval academy or flight school post-CharGen) woud require some serious roleplaying to get into.

The only one I allow after initial chargen but before play begins is four years at a trade school to pick up (skill)-2 - they also forfeit one mustering out benefits roll and are limited to two rolls max on the mustering out cash table if they select this option.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
1) At the end of each year of adventuring, a character rolls ONE skill on the tables of the career most closest to what he was doing in that year. this represents life-experience, combat-experience and so on.

I like that the existing CT experience system provides skills at the same rate as normal chargen - one per term (that is, eight years to raise two skills by one level permanently). I think once characters have reached the point where they are no longer being trained by an organization with the necessary human resources like trainers or mentors, that a gradual increase in skills makes sense.

For those who want more skills faster, there're always instructors.

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
2) the Instruction skill may be used as given on LBB4; NPC instructors exist, but usualy cost money an typically only allow for low-intensity learning (i.e. 6 months per attempt); intensive learning is going to cost a character alot, in money and/or favors, as it means that the instructor must devote alot of time to the PC. Also, getting instruction for certain skills might be difficult or even illegal.

Typically if we want to increase combat skills we put out a cadre merc ticket for appropriate instructors. Non-combat skills tend to a bit tougher to find, which is fine by me.

As a side note, I allow characters generated under Book 1 or Supplement 4 to take Instruction in lieu of an additional skill level if the character already has (skill)-3+.

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
3) A character may attempt to apply to "pre-enlistment" options (see LBBs 5-7 or my sig) even after chargen, taking the given time for them (1-4 years depending on the option selected) and recieve the normal benefits for them, but NOT recieve the usual "life experience" yearly roll while enrolled in a "pre-enlistment option" (it is subsumed in tht option). Tutition fees might apply; and, fo some options (such as attending the naval academy or flight school post-CharGen) woud require some serious roleplaying to get into.

The only one I allow after initial chargen but before play begins is four years at a trade school to pick up (skill)-2 - they also forfeit one mustering out benefits roll and are limited to two rolls max on the mustering out cash table if they select this option.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Some interesting variations, BGG. Good stuff.

2-4601, my only quibble is with your conclusion of 1 skill per year. That only occurs based on advanced chargen. Otherwise it rates about one per term. (You only get the extras for intensive periods: basic training, officer school, etc.)

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Some interesting variations, BGG. Good stuff.

2-4601, my only quibble is with your conclusion of 1 skill per year. That only occurs based on advanced chargen. Otherwise it rates about one per term. (You only get the extras for intensive periods: basic training, officer school, etc.)

 

[mike wightman]

In CT basic character generation, after the first term a character is likely to have:

Navy - 2 skills
Marines - 3 skills
Army - 6 skills
Scout - 3 skills
Merchant - 3 skills
Other - 2 skills

After two terms:

Navy - 3 skills
Marines - 4 skills
Army - 8 skills
Scout - 5 skills
Merchant - 4 skills
Other - 3 skills

 

[mike wightman]

In CT basic character generation, after the first term a character is likely to have:

Navy - 2 skills
Marines - 3 skills
Army - 6 skills
Scout - 3 skills
Merchant - 3 skills
Other - 2 skills

After two terms:

Navy - 3 skills
Marines - 4 skills
Army - 8 skills
Scout - 5 skills
Merchant - 4 skills
Other - 3 skills

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
2-4601, my only quibble is with your conclusion of 1 skill per year. That only occurs based on advanced chargen. Otherwise it rates about one per term. (You only get the extras for intensive periods: basic training, officer school, etc.)

I might swing again towards favoring the Advanced system (I'll run through it a few times to see how much time it really takes to use); its main weakness is that the S4 careers would have to have a custom advanced system created for each of them.

Anyhow, as Sigg Oddra has shown, 1 skill per 2 years might be a possibility for the Basic system.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
2-4601, my only quibble is with your conclusion of 1 skill per year. That only occurs based on advanced chargen. Otherwise it rates about one per term. (You only get the extras for intensive periods: basic training, officer school, etc.)

I might swing again towards favoring the Advanced system (I'll run through it a few times to see how much time it really takes to use); its main weakness is that the S4 careers would have to have a custom advanced system created for each of them.

Anyhow, as Sigg Oddra has shown, 1 skill per 2 years might be a possibility for the Basic system.

 

[Golan2072]

On a side note, Experience Points (XP) given as rewards for various in-game (victory/acievement of goals) or metagame (roleplaying quality etc) achievements do not seem to fit with the basic spirit of Classic Traveller. the way I see it, CT goes well with in-game rewards to in-game achievments, such as money, fame, gimmik-items and so on, with character advancement being seperated from rewards. Sure, an in-game achievement might be able to get you to a good source of training (money or connections always help), but it doesn't seem to me that CT fits well with the award of Experinece Points.

 

[Golan2072]

On a side note, Experience Points (XP) given as rewards for various in-game (victory/acievement of goals) or metagame (roleplaying quality etc) achievements do not seem to fit with the basic spirit of Classic Traveller. the way I see it, CT goes well with in-game rewards to in-game achievments, such as money, fame, gimmik-items and so on, with character advancement being seperated from rewards. Sure, an in-game achievement might be able to get you to a good source of training (money or connections always help), but it doesn't seem to me that CT fits well with the award of Experinece Points.

 

[aramis]

2-4601: some printings of CT did have the experience limit of Int+Edu.

TTB, page 29, Left Column:

Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or total levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined levels of skills and skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills.

 

[aramis]

2-4601: some printings of CT did have the experience limit of Int+Edu.

TTB, page 29, Left Column:

Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or total levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined levels of skills and skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills.

 

[mike wightman]

The Traveller Book and the Starter Edition versions of CT both had this rule.

Unfortunately there are quite a few canon NPCs that break it - just look at the sample resumes in LBB4, not to mention those in CotI, 1001 Characters, and Veterans

Personally I ignore it

 

[mike wightman]

The Traveller Book and the Starter Edition versions of CT both had this rule.

Unfortunately there are quite a few canon NPCs that break it - just look at the sample resumes in LBB4, not to mention those in CotI, 1001 Characters, and Veterans

Personally I ignore it

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Yeah, Sigg, I've never liked it - for my own PCs at least!
And, 2-4601, I agree that XP seem to be out of character for CT. The idea of a patron/contact/dropped hint, though, definitely fits.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Yeah, Sigg, I've never liked it - for my own PCs at least!
And, 2-4601, I agree that XP seem to be out of character for CT. The idea of a patron/contact/dropped hint, though, definitely fits.