On The Road

[Sifu Blackirish]

During research for my third novel, I have been looking at a lot of information about the Interstate Highway System. In essence, I imagine a 'highway culture' on some alien planet.

I have my own ideas for how this came to be, already in development IMTU. However, the planetary scale just came to me moments ago, and i was so fascinated by the concept that I wanted to share.

IMTU Terra gradually abandons internal combustion engines during the 21st Century, with the exception being the Los Angeles Automotive Reclamation Area. Pollution and special use taxes make it too expensive for average citizens to have them. LAARA is funded by old-school NASCAR and NHRA fanboys, who maintain the highways. Long straight sections along with 'interchange mazes' (intersections of major interstates) are there for the enjoyment of rich dilettantes.

What would the planetary characteristics be of such a place, where vehicles predominate?

What comes to mind for me is almost continual cloud cover and extreme winds aloft. Maybe the original colonists hit the 'sweet spot' of the ecocycle and there was actually sunshine that year. How about a sunny year 1 of 10?

Now i leave the rest to you fellow CotI members. As an inducement to those who think an 'interstate planet' would be a boring place, I provide this:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/roadmovies.cfm

 

[flykiller]

for the enjoyment of rich dilettantes

long stretches of straight highway, huh? boring. put the driver bot on, fall asleep.

1) mountains. lots of twisty curves to test one's skills, lots of fog to test one's nerves, lots of tunnels to hear the roar of one's engines, and lots of scenic views over vast valleys.

2) forests and lakes. scenery.

3) jurassic highway. race the predators. insurance on sale ....

4) car wars. death race 2000. road warrior. iron autobahn blitzkrieg nazis with 88's.

 

[Quint]

Alternately you could go the route of the Daniel Keys Moran did in his Continuing Time novels - see "The Long Run" and "Emerald Eyes"

Short version, all traffic is computer controlled unless you have a license to drive yourself - in a world full of VTOL's (easily changed to grav). The licenses to "drive freely" are very hard to get and there are clubs devoted to doing so - including the concept of 'the long run" which is either an around the world trip or some other very long bit of travel (I can't remember at the moment).

D.

 

[kilemall]

I'm reading that there would still be quite a need for cheap ground transportation even at the higher TLs- 600K Cr for an air/raft still makes it a working vehicle or rich plaything, and even if you say buy a TL9 air/raft at TL14 and incur the 50% TL 'exchange rate', that still works out to 300K vs. much more affordable wheels.

Or you could go hover which would allow for much cheaper grading and fixing of travel surface without the expense of maintaining a road to full safe/drainage levels.

 

[BlackBat242]

Sorry - this topic, and the mention of hovercars, just forces me to post this (not that I really need an excuse to listen to it again):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjjNvjURS-s

 

[aramis]

I'm reading that there would still be quite a need for cheap ground transportation even at the higher TLs- 600K Cr for an air/raft still makes it a working vehicle or rich plaything, and even if you say buy a TL9 air/raft at TL14 and incur the 50% TL 'exchange rate', that still works out to 300K vs. much more affordable wheels.

Or you could go hover which would allow for much cheaper grading and fixing of travel surface without the expense of maintaining a road to full safe/drainage levels.

Busses, trams, slidewalks... as is being discovered in a number of european cities, most people don't need their own vehicles, and can rent vans (and drivers) when needed for moves, etc.

That everyone needs a personal or family vehicle is not a given.

 

[kilemall]

Busses, trams, slidewalks... as is being discovered in a number of european cities, most people don't need their own vehicles, and can rent vans (and drivers) when needed for moves, etc.

That everyone needs a personal or family vehicle is not a given.

Of course, but for worlds/nations of a certain density and distance, personal ground vehicles will be desirable.

 

[Condottiere]

Depends on the integration of public transport.

Some countries have them coordinated and networked on a national level, with an attempt to keep delays less than four minutes, but ninety percent run on time.

At some point, we'll have on call drone taxis, one target demographic being the elderly.

 

[Jame]

I'm reading that there would still be quite a need for cheap ground transportation even at the higher TLs- 600K Cr for an air/raft still makes it a working vehicle or rich plaything, and even if you say buy a TL9 air/raft at TL14 and incur the 50% TL 'exchange rate', that still works out to 300K vs. much more affordable wheels.

Or you could go hover which would allow for much cheaper grading and fixing of travel surface without the expense of maintaining a road to full safe/drainage levels.

I believe that there was a 10% discount for TLs over that, so a TL 9 air/raft would cost 60000 Cr and a TL 10 one cost 6000.

Unless you wanted to alter that and have a TL 9 one cost 300000 CR, a TL 10 one cost 100000 Cr and so forth. Makes getting higher TL ones a better idea, and gives in-game justification for a lot of worlds trying to up their TLs.

 

[flykiller]

as is being discovered in a number of european cities, most people don't need their own vehicles

sure it works in european cities. but in texas or california ....

the big attraction of public transit is that it allows city/social planners to dictate where everyone may and may not and must and must not go. great for high law level worlds.

 

[rancke]

the big attraction of public transit is that it allows city/social planners to dictate where everyone may and may not and must and must not go. great for high law level worlds.

Some people find that the lower cost of transportation is a more important attraction.


Hans

 

[flykiller]

Some people find that the lower cost of transportation is a more important attraction.

heh. yeah, it STARTS cheap ... and later they discover that now, no matter how expensive it gets and no matter how much more they are willing to pay, certain things simply are disallowed.

"hey, transport. take me and my kids to the park today."

"I'm sorry dave, but I can't do that."

"ok, well, take us to the lake, we'll go fishing."

"I'm sorry dave, but you have no permit for that resource expenditure."

and so on.

 

[flykiller]

heh. you don't own it.

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/

 

[rancke]

heh. yeah, it STARTS cheap ... and later they discover that now, no matter how expensive it gets and no matter how much more they are willing to pay, certain things simply are disallowed.

"hey, transport. take me and my kids to the park today."

"I'm sorry dave, but I can't do that."

"ok, well, take us to the lake, we'll go fishing."

"I'm sorry dave, but you have no permit for that resource expenditure."

and so on.

Do you have a single authenticated real world example of things working out like that?


Hans

 

[whartung]

Alternately you could go the route of the Daniel Keys Moran did in his Continuing Time novels - see "The Long Run" and "Emerald Eyes"

Unrelated, but "The Long Run" (by Daniel Keys Moran) is my favorite all time book. The others are very good, TLR is my favorite.

When electricity/[alternative fuel] reaches the power and duration of gasoline, NASCAR will happily switch over. Open Wheel racing already races with alcohol based fuels, NASCAR doesn't bother as it's not necessary (since peak horsepower is not a driving goal for them, the cars are "fast enough").

Nobody will go see electric car drag racing. It's fast, but it's boring. A Top Fuel race is a visceral experience beyond simply the speed itself. They can race in parking lots. Fuel isn't their limitation, noise is. Auto sports have effectively zero impact on anything in terms of carbon fuel use. There's simply not enough of it compared to normal use.

Auto bots (self driving cars) will have a great impact on transportation in all but the lowest density areas. The problem with bots for hire is simply the number of bots available at any one time. I can not see a profitable situation where a company will have the excess capacity to manage something like "rush hour", causing a great shortage during those times.

What will be interesting is to see whether the density of buses will increase when the bots become the drivers. It's a question of whether labor is the primary cost component for running a bus vs not. Buses are the most scalable solution to handling diverse routes and reasonable volumes with existing infrastructure.

But, for example, my commute is 20m, and a bus would cost as much in terms of fuel, takes 1.5 hours, and involves quite a bit of walking, so I don't take the bus. Add buses, more often, closer to my destinations, make it a 1/2 hour commute, and it's quite viable.

Ad hoc mini bot buses (like the round about airport shuttles) may work, but the daily surge at the start and end of day, hard to say -- lots of people moving at those times.

individual auto bots, I just don't see them as a public resource during rush hour (i.e. "you can't get a cab in Manhattan this time of day").

That said, daily parking can be managed in that your personal auto bot can drive you to work, then return home (or wherever it's assigned parking spot is). Later, it can come pick you up. Then buildings and cities would have something similar to the "cell phone parking lots" that airports have. A place that cars can wait a short period nearby until they're needed.

The auto bot knows you "get off at 5", and starts the travel. Then it stages nearby until you are actually leaving the office. Then you alert it as you're entering the elevators and leaving the building, and the car shows up in the queue up front.

The final problem with the shared auto bot is making the machine self aware enough that someone hasn't done something simply vile in the car. Having one come up with unmentionable things having happened in the back seat, yea you can order another one, but…yeah…good times.

 

[flykiller]

Do you have a single authenticated real world example of things working out like that?

regarding transport? nope! not yet! but you'll see it.

but in other things, sure! "we haven't shut down the newspaper, it's just that darn paper shortage ...." "we're not taking away your guns, you just can't carry them in town ...." "sure, you can vote, just after you pass this little literacy test ...." "we'll just search you and your car, no probable cause, officer safety you know ...." "sure you can set up a business ... after you get this permit ... then that permit ... then sign this agreement ... and hire these certain people ... and if the sheriff approves ... and if the county approves ... and if you post insurance with this company and deposit with this bank ...." "yes, you can withdraw your money out of the bank, as long as the amount is less than $10,000 ... $5000 ... $2000 ...."

actually, come to think of it, yes, I have two examples with regards to transportation. 1) ancient romans from about 200ad on were not permitted to travel unless they carried with them proof that they had paid all their taxes. this consisted of a large thick metal plate with the appropriate up-to-date stamps from the town tax collector. no tax stamps, no travel. 2) vehicle-mounted breathalyzers, can't start your car engine until you blow into it and it decides you're not drunk. if it fails or breaks, well, no driving for you until it's fixed.

 

[rancke]

I was thinking about regulations that could be implemented if people had to rely on public transportation but not if they had their own. I know of plenty of repressive regimes with repressive rules and regulations. But I can't think of any that would have been impossible to implement because of private car ownership.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Another possibility is the public car pool. Citizens sign out cars for the hours they need them and return them when they no longer need them, allowing more people to share the use of each car.


Hans

 

[Condottiere]

You can link usage with supply and demand; when there is little demand, the cost is cheaper, when there is a lot, you have to pay a premium.

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

You can link usage with supply and demand; when there is little demand, the cost is cheaper, when there is a lot, you have to pay a premium.

Yeah, iI can see that easily. Middle of the night, 'floor prices' are the norm, but at rush hour? Bidding prices! See the minimum 'cents per mile' number creep up, with the sure knowledge that if you don't bid up, you are at the bottom of the list.

No one has mentioned a potential planet yet! I imagine something like the 'Damnation Alley' book environment. Severe winds over 200ft, radiation storms, swampland eventually taking over? Sunny days would be a rarity. While I am thinking of it, what is on this planet that justifies a human presence? Valuable mineral, animal or plant? A failed colony, exiles, prison?