Origin of the Air/Raft?

[Baron]

I think the point, "what is the origin of the air raft," would be, where was the inspiration for an open anti-grav vehicle, similar in profile to a 'raft,' ie open, flat, shallow, low sides. The use of various anti-grav vehicles in fiction is abundant, and to my thinking somewhat irrelevant. It's the *design* of the vehicle that helps us determine potential influences from the literature.

In the Dumarest series, the *common vehicle* fits the description. Yes, occasionally there's mention of a bubble canopy that can be set up, but (a) that's the exception, and (b) it's a simple convertible top on what matches the vehicle description we're looking for.

FWIW, in Norton's The Last Planet, the Scouts use a grav sled of sorts that also matches the description.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Piper's novel Space Viking is the source of the Sword Worlds.

In name only, nothing else.

 

[spacedog]

They are definitely a part of the Dumarest of Terra series. Whether Marc & Co consciously acknowledge that as a source of inspiration, I couldn't say.

The Dumarest books also have high and low passage, fast drug, slow drug, a tendency to refer to fighting knives as blades, and a subculture whose members not only call themselves travellers but also will do anything for money and use bars as hiring halls, so it's fair to regard the Tubb books as a likely influence (they're on kindle, and are probably close to free at big second hand shops).

Incidentally, the rafts are capable of relatively high altitudes.

 

[Emperor Valdamir]

I've been reading the Dumarest books and it's pretty clear that they had to have been a HUGE inspiration on Marc.

 

[BlackBat242]

But by no means the only influence - as some appear to be "suggesting".

 

[rancke]

But by no means the only influence - as some appear to be "suggesting".

Depends on what you're referring to. If you're talking about Traveller as a whole, then you're right about there being lots of other influences (But then, AFAIK no one has suggested otherwise). However, if you're talking about high and low passage and the lethality of low passage, then I think it's quite likely that they came straight out of the Dumarest books. There's certainly no need for it to come from elsewhere.


Hans

 

[ShapeShifter]

Bits and bobs come from several known works, but the one series that had a whopping number of inspirations was the Dumarest series. It's a shame that MM didn't adapt more stuff from the books for the game, e.g. the Universal Brotherhood and the very sinister Cyclan (unemotional, calculating cyborgs bent on complete domination of inhabited worlds).

Over the past 5-6 years I've compiled a detailed set of notes from each book to adapt ideas into CT crunch for use in my campaign, including world-names, NPC names, gadgetry and flavour-concepts. It's a gold mine for those patient enough (or masochistic enough) to wade through the 30-odd books in the series. o: I thought about writing it up and posting everything here at CotI, but I backed down when faced with the possibility of being curb-stomped by the Mods over IP issues.

In terms of content the books are VERY repetitive: phrases are rehashed, whole sentences, sometimes complete paragraphs are "cut and pasted" (by our modern idiom) into the next novel without any elaboration or new insights, which is a shame.

 

[GypsyComet]

Bits and bobs come from several known works, but the one series that had a whopping number of inspirations was the Dumarest series. It's a shame that MM didn't adapt more stuff from the books for the game, e.g. the Universal Brotherhood and the very sinister Cyclan (unemotional, calculating cyborgs bent on complete domination of inhabited worlds).

Those imply a lot more setting than the bits that were used. If they had been used, we would have arguments about how "they" are still around right next to the people arguing about using the first edition of High Guard vs the second.

 

[Patron Zero]

Might be in error but thought I saw a sort of air/raft in the classic 1962 Soviet SF film, Planeta Bur.

 

[ShapeShifter]

Might be in error but thought I saw a sort of air/raft in the classic 1962 Soviet SF film, Planeta Bur.

*steeples fingers*
Hmm. Didn't know that. Got a screengrab of it? Wouldn't a Soviet-era film be pretty obscure and controversial to be seen on this side of Zheleznyy Zanaves, and what's the likelihood that MM had seen it?

 

[aramis]

*steeples fingers*
Hmm. Didn't know that. Got a screengrab of it? Wouldn't a Soviet-era film be pretty obscure and controversial to be seen on this side of Zheleznyy Zanaves, and what's the likelihood that MM had seen it?

ISTR one of the GDW staffers was an Intel officer - tho whether trained as such or just the company intel officer is a whole 'nother matter.

 

[GypsyComet]

Got a screengrab of it?

Are you seeing a broken image link? That's the screen grab.

 

[Carlobrand]

Might be in error but thought I saw a sort of air/raft in the classic 1962 Soviet SF film, Planeta Bur.

Isn't that supposed to be, "Планета Бурь"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planeta_Bur

 

[Patron Zero]

Gladly, consider such delivered.

For those not familiar with the film, in it's unadulterated version it's awesome, there are two (2) adaptations under the titles of Voyage to the Prehistoric Planet (1965) and Voyage to the Planet of Prehistoric Women (1968).

The second adaptation includes a near-naked Mamie Van Doren and other lovelies lounging about on rocky terrain.

As to if MM had seen such as he was assembling Traveller, it's possible, the two adaptations made their way around many 'shock-theater' format TV programs in the Midwest in the early 1970s. I first saw the Mamie Van Doren version broadcast from a then-small independent station in Central Indiana (WTTV) circa 1972 myself.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Has a canopy, therefore not a classic air/raft.

 

[Patron Zero]

Has a canopy, therefore not a classic air/raft.

I'll concede about the canopy and does seem to have a capacity to pressurize the passenger compartment which a 'classic' air/raft lacks, that said it's still a ride worthy of Traveller !

 

[BlackBat242]

Sure looks a lot like the "standard enclosed air/raft" I have in all my scout ships (and many merchant vessels).

It makes the "orbital capability" more logical.

 

[Hyphen]

I've been reading the Dumarest books and it's pretty clear that they had to have been a HUGE inspiration on Marc.

From memory, both Marc and Loren have acknowledged that. But they also mention other influences, such as Norton, Asimov, Piper, Niven, Pournelle, and Poul Anderson.

 

[ShapeShifter]

The picture looks a bit smaller than it is described in the Dumarest books...and the canopy isn't what is described either. However, in an earlier book Dumarest flies an enclosed craft called a "flitter" which may be more like the one in Planeta Bur'.

The novel JONDELLE, which I have just finished last week, mentions the rafts many, many times -- perhaps the most references in the books thus far -- and at the end of the story there is a very dramatic aerial battle among various air-rafts reminiscent of the battles at the end of ERB's The Gods of Mars, though here on a much smaller scale. They are described as being prone to breaking down pretty frequently and, if overloaded or with insufficient power, or damage to their 'anti-gravity units', they will 'limp along' only a few feet from the ground.

 

[Thanos]

Dr. Quest and Race wave "Hi!"

No one here ever watch Jonny Quest? Flat and low railing. See the end credits.