OTU Only: OTU Setting, Defined

[mike wightman]

So, basically, for the 1977 edition of the rules, there is no OTU, and therefore, a person can do what they want, and not have to worry about canonicity. That sounds like a nice place to play.

It is, and it is why creativehum has a blog all about it.

By the time of the revised '81 edition of CT the setting was starting to take over the rules, The Traveller Book even included the OTU setting. LBB6, 7 and 8 were all written for the 3I setting rather than a generic far away Imperium.

 

[mike wightman]

I think the first reference to "The Imperium" I saw was in Book 4, p.1 (1978).

Yup, a remote centralized government referred to as the Imperium. Somewhere along the line the Imperium ceased to be remote...

 

[McPerth]

One thing common in most (in fact almost all, at least of those I've read) those texts in the poll are about 3I, not about the full OTU setting.

Of course, the AMs are the main exception, but they keep the knowledge only of the áreas close to 3I, and even then the setting itself is described only minimally.

 

[aramis]

So, basically, for the 1977 edition of the rules, there is no OTU, and therefore, a person can do what they want, and not have to worry about canonicity. That sounds like a nice place to play.

It was and wasn't. As I counterpointed to another, the tools of S1 through S4, Bk 4, and adventures 1 and 4 are not exactly a cohesive whole, but are also not of need compatible.

Despite what MWM says, what GDW did is another matter.

The introductions to LBB4 and LBB5 both mention an Imperium, A1 library data details this setting and S3 fills more gaps. The OTU is there, even if in a form that will be overwritten by subsequent supplements.

In point of fact A1 provides enough plot hooks, rumours and actual adventures that you could run a game in this setting for years.

The use of a framing device does not an official setting make. A1 and A4 each provide enough framing context for themselves, and don't quit agree with the others. It's fair to say that each has their own setting, and that they might be compatible with the later designed A2 & A3...

It's also worth noting that A4 is actually written earlier than its publication by GDW might imply.

Yup, a remote centralized government referred to as the Imperium. Somewhere along the line the Imperium ceased to be remote...

That point would appear be about the time High Guard changed from being for a small ship universe to a large ship one. Somewhere during the playtest process.

Both Kinunir and Leviathan appear to me to be HG1 designs with a small ship universe. Kinunir is expressed as a Bk2 design, but has weapons (and damage values) consistent with HG 1.

 

[creativehum]

Aramis, I'm not sure what this response to timerover's post means:

It was and wasn't. As I counterpointed to another, the tools of S1 through S4, Bk 4, and adventures 1 and 4 are not exactly a cohesive whole, but are also not of need compatible.

Can you explain further?

Specifically, in his post timerover states:

For the 1977 edition of the rules

1. there is no OTU
2. and thereforea person can do what they want
3. and not have to worry about canonicity

As far as I can tell these blunt statements are true.

Does your paragraph contradict those statements?

He then concludes that given those three facts, at least for him, using such a rules set would create a nice place to play.

Your post seems to suggest that it would be a nice place to play, but also it wouldn't be a nice place to play. Is this what you meant? Can you explain the reasoning? I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying I don't see the underlying logic or point of the statement as expressed so far.

Also: what do the supplements, books, and adventures you mention figure in at all to the 1977 edition of the rules -- which can literally be nothing more than Books 1-3.

 

[Timerover51]

It was and wasn't. As I counterpointed to another, the tools of S1 through S4, Bk 4, and adventures 1 and 4 are not exactly a cohesive whole, but are also not of need compatible.

As Creativehum says, I am not sure that I follow you at all. Supplement 1 simply gives you a list of possible NPC characteristics, there is no mention of an Imperium anywhere in the booklet. Supplement 2 gives you lists of possible animal encounters and events, again there is no mention of an Imperium anywhere in the booklet. Supplement 4 expands the possible range of characters to play and adds some more skills. It does have one mention of an Imperium under the Noble skill, and that is it. There is no mention anywhere in these three booklets of any type of organized Imperium except for the single appearance of the word in Supplement 4.

Supplement 3 is the only one that gives the background of a sector on an organized Imperium. The Zhodani appear, and Regina is said to be the sector capital. That is the first time an Imperium entity makes an appearance. I agree that Adventure 1 alludes to an Imperium, as does Adventure 4, while Adventures 2 and 3 clearly have a form of an Imperium.

However, using just the 1977 edition of the rules, along with Supplements 1, 2, and 4, you have the game without any mention, except for a single word, of an Imperium, and could play quite well without one. A referee would have to spend some time making up a sub-sector or two, and fleshing out some planets.

As I see it, the Official Traveller Universe of the 1977 edition of the rules, plus Supplements 1, 2, and 4 does not have an Imperium.

 

[aramis]

Timerover, Marc has explicitly stated in print that there was no OTU at release; there was very little movement that direction in 1977 - three RP games had explicit settings: Empire of the Petal Throne (1976, TSR), Metamorphosis Alpha (1975, TSR), and En Garde (1975, GDW - Frank Chadwick, to be specific - but it also was a historical game, and can be argued as not an RPG, either.)

And, while the 1976 supplements to OE D&D had names that would later become labels for specific settings, the 1976 incarnations had no such role; the adventures were exemplars, not tied to a canon-concept, and the rules were literally just swap in replacements for the less polished rules in the boxed set.

Given that one of the 3 explicit setting RPGs was by GDW, and that Marc knew about settings as game elements, him having stated that the OTU didn't exist should be good enough.

Loren's comments in the introduction to Journal #1 also makes it fairly clear that they were building into a new shared setting. (JTAS #1, pp 2-3.) Note also that the issue is dated 183-1105; this corresponds to the press date being day 183 of 1979.

The first evidence of the OTU as a cohesive setting is in JTAS #2 - which is dated 274-1105, and was printed near day 274 of 1979.
Note that Annic Nova was in JTAS #1...
It's not a good OTU adventure. It is a great example of how to rework the rules into something else whilst still keeping the rules relatively intact. Likewise, in JTAS 2, Loren shows how to build a CT Laser Pistol from the Pistol and Laser Carbine table entries.

Note that the Imperium game was released in '77 as well, and per Marc, the counter mix was in fact built from Traveller, adding several elements which would later become canon - but are called out as not in Traveller in Marc's Imperium Designer's Notes. (Dragon, issue 20, p 4)

Looking back, it's way too easy to project a grand vision having existed... but it's clear from the designer's notes in JTAS and in Dragon that the vision grew out of fan demand, not because Marc had a strict setting in mind. Imperium really is Marc's reaction to Star Wars, and what he saw missing from that movie.

 

[Timerover51]

Aramis, I will drop the subject, and quit posting here.

 

[77topaz]

My latest poll attempt is for getting a bead on what published works are the most useful for defining the Charted Space setting.

I'm looking for a minimal but complete set. Actually I'm looking for opinions about which printed sources are most valuable for determining this minimal but complete set.

So, what publications help draw the best boundaries?

I've only got 20 options(!) so I may group things together. Ha.


I'm open to more sources. For example, I'm SUPER WEAK on TNE and Lorenverse material.

Hmm... what I don't entirely get is, why isn't MgT listed as one of the options? They have numerous good setting books in the OTU.

 

[whulorigan]

T4 material is not listed as an option either.

 

[creativehum]

many things that are true but that don't have anything to do with what timerover wrote....

Whatever, man...

 

[77topaz]

Whatever, man...

"Don't have anything to do with what Timerover wrote"? Timerover wrote that the OTU of 1977 didn't have an Imperium, and Aramis presented a counterargument that there was no OTU in 1977.

 

[creativehum]

"Don't have anything to do with what Timerover wrote"? Timerover wrote that the OTU of 1977 didn't have an Imperium, and Aramis presented a counterargument that there was no OTU in 1977.

Keeping in mind that my previous post was a question asking for clarification on aramis' point...

Timerover had a lightbulb moment and wrote: "in the 1977 rules there was no OTU."

And you are saying aramis is writing posts detailing how there was no OTU in the 1977 rules.

How is it a counterargument to say the exact same thing?

Keep in mind both mine and timerover's previous posts were asking for clarification about aramis' actual point -- not more proof for his point. We simply don't understand what he's going after.

 

[Timerover51]

Keeping in mind that my previous post was a question asking for clarification on aramis' point...

Timerover had a lightbulb moment and wrote: "in the 1977 rules there was no OTU."

And you are saying aramis is writing posts detailing how there was no OTU in the 1977 rules.

How is it a counterargument to say the exact same thing?

Keep in mind both mine and timerover's previous posts were asking for clarification about aramis' actual point -- not more proof for his point. We simply dno't understand what he's going after.

Do not bother pushing it. It is not worth being banned for a few days over. I have dropped the subject, and will not be around here any more.

Edit Note: Clarifying my last comment, I will not be posting on this thread anymore.

 

[creativehum]

Fair enough.

 

[77topaz]

Keeping in mind that my previous post was a question asking for clarification on aramis' point...

Timerover had a lightbulb moment and wrote: "in the 1977 rules there was no OTU."

And you are saying aramis is writing posts detailing how there was no OTU in the 1977 rules.

How is it a counterargument to say the exact same thing?

Keep in mind both mine and timerover's previous posts were asking for clarification about aramis' actual point -- not more proof for his point. We simply don't understand what he's going after.

What Timerover said immediately before Aramis's last post in which Aramis argued there was no OTU in 1977:

As I see it, the Official Traveller Universe of the 1977 edition of the rules, plus Supplements 1, 2, and 4 does not have an Imperium.

That's not the same as saying "in the 1977 rules there was no OTU."

Do not bother pushing it. It is not worth being banned for a few days over. I have dropped the subject, and will not be around here any more.

Edit Note: Clarifying my last comment, I will not be posting on this thread anymore.

Seriously? People are so afraid of the admin that they're unwilling to even engage in a discussion with them for fear of getting banned? That seems a bit over-the-top to me.

 

[aramis]

Seriously? People are so afraid of the admin that they're unwilling to even engage in a discussion with them for fear of getting banned? That seems a bit over-the-top to me.

It's also generally unneeded.

The lack of an official universe as an official setting was a feature as much as a bug.

That said, creating a universe out of pre-Book-5 sources doesn't get consistent results; there's so much to fill in, and which sources one includes makes rather impressive differences. Even assuming that you accept only A1 and A4, but not A2 and A3, you get something very different than B1-3 alone.

 

[Kilgs]

None of my choices are on your list.

Gateway to Destiny is the best splat book IMHO for a Charted Space region. Next up would be Lorenverse (I assume that's Gurps Trav?) splat books, Rebellion era (MT) adventures (Flaming Eye, Knightfall and magazine adventures) and Mongoose sector books.

I'm a little unclear on what you're asking? Best splat book for a location? Or best book that describes Imperium and its boundaries?

For the first, see answer above. For the second... Gateway to Destiny has a great summary of the Imperium but not all of the areas.

I would recommend Applecline's column if you're interested in finding a cool place/time:

https://forum.rpg.net/forumdisplay....=&pp=50&daysprune=-1&sort=lastpost&order=desc

ERAS (Time)
https://www.rpg.net/columns/fifthimperium/fifthimperium1.phtml

SECTORS
https://www.rpg.net/columns/fifthimperium/fifthimperium4.phtml

 

[aramis]

Yes, Lorenverse is the GURPS Traveller line. So called because Loren wrote GT, and supervised the line for SJG for a while (then supervised GURPS as a whole for a while)... before is much lamented passing.

 

[Ulsyus]

T4 material is not listed as an option either.

Holy Long Night Whul-man, you're right!

Can we have the survey amended to include T4? To my way of thinking this is a pretty important milieu. Though it's set long in the past of the regular OTU's most readily recognised times, it's the foundation period of the 3I, there's a plethora of material for it in all the books/supplements that MWM released, and it's the continuation of Traveller everything else was pretty dormant.

I admit to being biased, having all the material for T4...