"Per 25mm"

[Supplement Four]

I posted this in another forum, but I thought I might get more response here.

Here's a question about sand I've never really bothered to figure out.

On the CT charts, it says sand provides a -3 DM per 25mm.

I know that means "per 2500 km", but what are we talking about here?

Is that a range DM? Every 2500 km, it's a -3 DM? So that, at 5000 km, it's a -6 DM, and at 10,000 km, it's a -12 DM?

Naw, that can't be.

So, is it some measure of the sand itself? 50 kg of sand makes a cloud 2500 km wide? So, if you fire the sandcaster twice, the cloud is 5000 km wide? And, the DM is -6 then?

That doesn't make sense either. It seems like a ship would just fire the sandcaster twice and hardly ever get hit.

I see, in Starter Traveller, that the DM is per Range Band, so that's per 10,000 km.

Maybe it's talking about a hex filled with sand? It's a -3DM per hex the laser shot moves through to get to the target vessel?

That makes the most sense to me. I'm guessing that's it.

What throws me off is the "per 25mm"

What does that 2500 km measure? What does a -3 DM per 25mm mean?

 

[Supplement Four]

I posted this in another forum, but I thought I might get more response here.

Here's a question about sand I've never really bothered to figure out.

On the CT charts, it says sand provides a -3 DM per 25mm.

I know that means "per 2500 km", but what are we talking about here?

Is that a range DM? Every 2500 km, it's a -3 DM? So that, at 5000 km, it's a -6 DM, and at 10,000 km, it's a -12 DM?

Naw, that can't be.

So, is it some measure of the sand itself? 50 kg of sand makes a cloud 2500 km wide? So, if you fire the sandcaster twice, the cloud is 5000 km wide? And, the DM is -6 then?

That doesn't make sense either. It seems like a ship would just fire the sandcaster twice and hardly ever get hit.

I see, in Starter Traveller, that the DM is per Range Band, so that's per 10,000 km.

Maybe it's talking about a hex filled with sand? It's a -3DM per hex the laser shot moves through to get to the target vessel?

That makes the most sense to me. I'm guessing that's it.

What throws me off is the "per 25mm"

What does that 2500 km measure? What does a -3 DM per 25mm mean?

 

[Dirk Desiato]

It is this kind of weirdness that led me to my S.A.N.D. caster, or "jammer can" idea.

 

[Dirk Desiato]

It is this kind of weirdness that led me to my S.A.N.D. caster, or "jammer can" idea.

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
What throws me off is the "per 25mm"

What does that 2500 km measure? What does a -3 DM per 25mm mean?

In rules lawyer and grognard terms, it means that the defensive DMs for sandcaster rounds are "stackable".

Since I figure a sandcaster round dissipates after one turn, and since anyone pursuing an adversary will quickly figure out the advantages of an "off-axis" pursuit course, I figure yes, the cloud that bursts out from a pony-keg-sized 50kg sand round is a whopping 2500km in diameter (all the better to defend against those 2500km-blast-radius missiles), and yes, you get a hefty -3 for each one you can get launched for a particular turn.

As a consequence, ample magazine space and choreographed reloading details are critical elements of space combat IMTU... plus, there's the "hide in our sandy fortress and coast until he goes away" or "make a run for it and expose ourself to his merciless laser barrage" decision-making opportunity...

And then there are the missiles to contend with as well... and yes, I stack the sand DM against them too, going both ways.

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
What throws me off is the "per 25mm"

What does that 2500 km measure? What does a -3 DM per 25mm mean?

In rules lawyer and grognard terms, it means that the defensive DMs for sandcaster rounds are "stackable".

Since I figure a sandcaster round dissipates after one turn, and since anyone pursuing an adversary will quickly figure out the advantages of an "off-axis" pursuit course, I figure yes, the cloud that bursts out from a pony-keg-sized 50kg sand round is a whopping 2500km in diameter (all the better to defend against those 2500km-blast-radius missiles), and yes, you get a hefty -3 for each one you can get launched for a particular turn.

As a consequence, ample magazine space and choreographed reloading details are critical elements of space combat IMTU... plus, there's the "hide in our sandy fortress and coast until he goes away" or "make a run for it and expose ourself to his merciless laser barrage" decision-making opportunity...

And then there are the missiles to contend with as well... and yes, I stack the sand DM against them too, going both ways.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by boomslang:

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
[qb]In rules lawyer and grognard terms, it means that the defensive DMs for sandcaster rounds are "stackable".

(Still not gettin' it.)

OK, the stackable part is understood.

So, we're playing Book 2 Space Combat, and I fire a canister of sand.

What happens on the playing surface? How is the sand marked? Do, I just put a marker on my ship?

Is that sand marker supposed to be (25mm) 2500km wide?

I'm not getting what the "25mm" measures.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by boomslang:

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
[qb]In rules lawyer and grognard terms, it means that the defensive DMs for sandcaster rounds are "stackable".

(Still not gettin' it.)

OK, the stackable part is understood.

So, we're playing Book 2 Space Combat, and I fire a canister of sand.

What happens on the playing surface? How is the sand marked? Do, I just put a marker on my ship?

Is that sand marker supposed to be (25mm) 2500km wide?

I'm not getting what the "25mm" measures.

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
So, we're playing Book 2 Space Combat, and I fire a canister of sand.

What happens on the playing surface? How is the sand marked? Do, I just put a marker on my ship?

Is that sand marker supposed to be (25mm) 2500km wide?

I'm not getting what the "25mm" measures.

How I like to play it:

A little 25mm-diameter circle appears on your next turn (since ordinance doesn't move in its launch phase), centered on the point where the vessel was when it fired it, and having the vector that vessel had at the time. The circle lasts for one full turn, moving as appropriate, and then dissipates (to be replaced by a subsequent launch, if desired). Any laser LOF or missile vector that contacts this circle while its in play faces the DM. Multiple sand rounds stack their circles and thus their DMs. Note that ships can screen other ships which are within the 25mm circle or which are otherwise positioned to take advantage of the LOS/LOF geometry versus the enemy.

It's a simple, straightforward mechanic this way.

Note also, if the sandcasting ship decides to move, the Return Fire program becomes very important...

 

[boomslang]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
So, we're playing Book 2 Space Combat, and I fire a canister of sand.

What happens on the playing surface? How is the sand marked? Do, I just put a marker on my ship?

Is that sand marker supposed to be (25mm) 2500km wide?

I'm not getting what the "25mm" measures.

How I like to play it:

A little 25mm-diameter circle appears on your next turn (since ordinance doesn't move in its launch phase), centered on the point where the vessel was when it fired it, and having the vector that vessel had at the time. The circle lasts for one full turn, moving as appropriate, and then dissipates (to be replaced by a subsequent launch, if desired). Any laser LOF or missile vector that contacts this circle while its in play faces the DM. Multiple sand rounds stack their circles and thus their DMs. Note that ships can screen other ships which are within the 25mm circle or which are otherwise positioned to take advantage of the LOS/LOF geometry versus the enemy.

It's a simple, straightforward mechanic this way.

Note also, if the sandcasting ship decides to move, the Return Fire program becomes very important...

 

[tbeard1999]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by boomslang:

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
[qb]In rules lawyer and grognard terms, it means that the defensive DMs for sandcaster rounds are "stackable".

(Still not gettin' it.)

OK, the stackable part is understood.

So, we're playing Book 2 Space Combat, and I fire a canister of sand.

What happens on the playing surface? How is the sand marked? Do, I just put a marker on my ship?

Is that sand marker supposed to be (25mm) 2500km wide?

I'm not getting what the "25mm" measures. </font>

I always played it thusly:

1. Sand is a 25mm x 25mm square that has the vector of the launching ship and that can be extended from any point on the launching ship.

2. Trace line of fire. For each 25mm (or fraction thereof) that the line of fire is in sand, apply a -3 DM to hit.

3. Sand clouds get no additional effect for density (i.e., 2 sand clouds on top of each other do not get additional modifiers).

 

[tbeard1999]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by boomslang:

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
[qb]In rules lawyer and grognard terms, it means that the defensive DMs for sandcaster rounds are "stackable".

(Still not gettin' it.)

OK, the stackable part is understood.

So, we're playing Book 2 Space Combat, and I fire a canister of sand.

What happens on the playing surface? How is the sand marked? Do, I just put a marker on my ship?

Is that sand marker supposed to be (25mm) 2500km wide?

I'm not getting what the "25mm" measures. </font>

I always played it thusly:

1. Sand is a 25mm x 25mm square that has the vector of the launching ship and that can be extended from any point on the launching ship.

2. Trace line of fire. For each 25mm (or fraction thereof) that the line of fire is in sand, apply a -3 DM to hit.

3. Sand clouds get no additional effect for density (i.e., 2 sand clouds on top of each other do not get additional modifiers).