Maybe getting an Imperial ID is the personal equivalent, more or less, of an Imperial LIC corporate charter: essential for interstellar trade, but useful or prestigeous for others who may not strictly need it.
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- Thread starter BackworldTraveller
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Maybe getting an Imperial ID is the personal equivalent, more or less, of an Imperial LIC corporate charter: essential for interstellar trade, but useful or prestigeous for others who may not strictly need it.
From first principles: the Imperium governs the space between the stars, and worlds govern themselves. The Imperium doesn't care about people/sophonts; its sole concern is with the flow of trade and money.
As such, the Imperium doesn't concern itself with identity documents. Some worlds issue such documents to their citizens/subjects/etc.; others do not. This depends on the level of social and political development of that world.
The Imperium would issue identity documents to members of its various services. Identity documents might also be issued on request, if you apply to the local Imperial consulate, to aid e.g. merchant crews, mercenaries, and others doing work the Imperium relies on.
World governments that require identity documents would issue temporary identity documents to undocumented visitors on admitting them.
Remember, these things have not existed for much of human history. Worldwide standards for passports have existed for only about 100 years. Although the idea of a passport has been around for a long time, even in the late 19th century you could travel within Europe without one.
I favour this kind of chaotic Imperium over the bureaucratic, Highly Organized Imperium that has crept into various books over the years.
As such, the Imperium doesn't concern itself with identity documents. Some worlds issue such documents to their citizens/subjects/etc.; others do not. This depends on the level of social and political development of that world.
The Imperium would issue identity documents to members of its various services. Identity documents might also be issued on request, if you apply to the local Imperial consulate, to aid e.g. merchant crews, mercenaries, and others doing work the Imperium relies on.
World governments that require identity documents would issue temporary identity documents to undocumented visitors on admitting them.
Remember, these things have not existed for much of human history. Worldwide standards for passports have existed for only about 100 years. Although the idea of a passport has been around for a long time, even in the late 19th century you could travel within Europe without one.
I favour this kind of chaotic Imperium over the bureaucratic, Highly Organized Imperium that has crept into various books over the years.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Mass surveillance state.
While the Imperium might default to not really caring what's going on dirtside, they may have a keener interest in who's travelling where, and possibly why.
While the Imperium might default to not really caring what's going on dirtside, they may have a keener interest in who's travelling where, and possibly why.
Nonsense, of course it cares about identity.
Identity is fundamental to trade and money. Specifically, identity is fundamental to taxes -- which is what this is ALWAYS about.
and "official" IDs have been around since pretty early in Traveller: the Navy ID, the Megacorp ID cards showed up in the Journal and elsewhere. Now - does the average citizen have one? In MTU yes (plus I like designing ID cards so it is a solution in search of a problem for me 
) But I don't recall anything specifically calling that out (but I may have easily missed it or forgotten)
So the official military ones (Navy, Army, Marines, etc) are essentially Imperial ID cards, and megacorp for the megacorps. But is there a way of linking those into Condottier's surveillance state? I don't recall anything official indicating that, though the Imperium does have a LOT of official offices, and you may not be able to access any of those resources unless you have an official Imperial ID of some sort.
I do want to make the Imperial Calendar Compliance Office card as there are rumors...
) But I don't recall anything specifically calling that out (but I may have easily missed it or forgotten)So the official military ones (Navy, Army, Marines, etc) are essentially Imperial ID cards, and megacorp for the megacorps. But is there a way of linking those into Condottier's surveillance state? I don't recall anything official indicating that, though the Imperium does have a LOT of official offices, and you may not be able to access any of those resources unless you have an official Imperial ID of some sort.
I do want to make the Imperial Calendar Compliance Office card as there are rumors...
How do you know the Imperium taxes individuals?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
As I understand Imperium taxation policy, it's farmed out.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
Only two things in life are inevitable...Death and Taxes.
Given the way the imperium is set up, it (or its "Noble Administrators") squeeze tax until the pips squeak. There is almost no investment, no growth, no initiative, no competition. If you aren't happy, then the Marines obliterate you the second you make an effective statement of disaffection. Imperial "Justice" is nobles with High, middle and low justice in their own courts and controlling even the bar association's membership. Don't like the goods being supplied - well if you compete with the mega-corporations you are either trivial, bought out or wiped out. Anti-Trust laws don't exist...indeed the opposite is effectively true. "Free Traders" are marginal concerns funded by banks owned by Megacorps. Behind on the payments? - Reposessed. Making Money? - Megacorp ships take the route. Complain? Mysterious pirates appear and break stuff until you're broke again.
Someone said that Piracy doesn't pay. It doesn't but it exists - someone is using it to keep their positions of power? And if the Pirates don't toe the line - The IN appears to "Enforce the Law".
This is the best explanation I've seen yet for pirates. Unfortunately.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I think it's either privateering (sanctioned) or racketeering (unsanctioned).
So do y'all feel that the Imperium is really this dystopian?
Seem pretty, you know, dark. vs the "spirit of high adventure" I've always associated with Traveller.
I've fluctuated all over on this one, from a benign neglect model to the near dystopian version. In the end, it comes down to the game I am currently running and the Imperium is whatever the plot needs. If I need it to be a grasping greedy politico that strangles the golden goose, it is. If just a backdrop to high adventure, it is there to help out.
In the end, it is huge (to paraphrase Douglas Adams: the Imperium is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.) so it varies from one end to the other. Being a feudal technocracy, it can be all that at the same time. I allow doublethink in my Traveller universe
In the end, it is huge (to paraphrase Douglas Adams: the Imperium is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is.) so it varies from one end to the other. Being a feudal technocracy, it can be all that at the same time. I allow doublethink in my Traveller universe
yea, fair enough. No reason you can't have your Laissez-faire subsectors right next to you dystopian nightmare subsectors.
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
Clearly, I was having a pessimistic day!
(Fortunately) no characters were harmed in the making of this scenario.
Especially because you have such systems being adjacent--Law level D next to LL 3 next to . . .
BRJN
SOC-12
The Rebellion metaplot (and some snarky comments in _The Regency Sourcebook_) suggest that somebody in a position to make decisions did think that.
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The core sector worlds are - the high population high TL worlds.
We have never really had a true look at what the Imperial core worlds are like, apart from the Froboldn project...
The early Traveller adventures were set in a frontier sector a long way from the controlling Imperium. The retcons and changes that came later changed the Imperium in a way that the early setting doesn't support.
The Spinward Marches can not be as presented in S:3 and early JTAS News items and the thousand year old settled region it late became.
Yes. The only non-Dystopian GDW RPGs I've seen? Space:1889, Dangerous Journeys.
Genuinely dystopian... life sucks on a good day in these...
- Twilight 2000: you're on the far side of WWIII
- 2300: Earth is a cyberpunk dystopia, so are the Centauri colonies; meanwhile a war with a foe for whom genocide is really the only reasonable choice.
- Dark Conspiracy: Extradimensional entities are behind the great conspiracies... it's cyberpunk mashed with the Cthulhu Mythos and Shea & Wilson, Erich von Däniken, and the paranoid conspiracy theorists in general.
- Merc 2000: While not an RPG core, it's a world where mercs are being used in place of flagged operatives... how dystopic it is depends upon whether using it in T2K (where it's only slightly dystopian), or DC (where it can become hyperdark)...
- Cadilacs and Dinosaurs: T2K 2.0 mechanics, and a setting where dinos rampage... and there are remnants of tech. Never read the comics, never ran it, but just reading the RPG was depressing.
Even the three that aren't clearly dystopian have some dystopian elements...
- Space 1889 is idealistic, but even there, a hint of dystopianism... The Colonial Powers are generally exploiting the locals.
- Dangerous Journeys is typical D&D-genre fantasy. That itself is bordering on dystopian.
- En Garde! You're part of a french legion... in the Musketeer era... and it paints a rather corrupt, and frequently absent from duty, French army and civil culture...
Thing is, Dystopias are better for adventuring in. You have more enemies to fight.
It's kind of funny.
Yea, my "impression" of Traveler is from the early days, far frontier, high adventure, scrappy traders clinging to make a buck, but no necessarily "Firefly" trying to stay under the radar of The Man, the omnipresent yoke on everyones back.
Definitely "pre-imperium". Even after all the rest came out, that was the impression that stuck with me. Of course, then I mostly focused on things like the ships and such vs the actual story unfolding beneath the stars.
But the reboot of T2K did bring this to mind. "Welcome to Poland, you are your buddies have some ammunition, a few crackly radios, a serviceable vehicle and, oh, yea, you're running out of food -- along with everyone else....ADVENTURE!"
I've always said that Adventure is a bad day remembered fondly, have had my own, assorted, personal adventures. Never dangerous, just...adventure.
But, yea, "What's compelling about scrounging for food in a bombed out wasteland".
And, that clearly depends on the tone of the campaign.
There's a significant difference between the worlds of "The Postman" and that of "The Road". And I used to routinely read the "Deathlands" books back in the day. Always on the search for a glimmer of hope.
Dystopian: relating to or denoting an imagined state or society where there is great suffering or injustice. -or as is gettng used here- A dystopia (from Ancient Greek δυσ- "bad" and τόπος "place"; alternatively cacotopia or simply anti-utopia) is a community or society that is undesirable or frightening.
It all depends on which side of the fence you are on really: for those in power, it may seem a paradise. Those not in power, no paradise.
My early views of the Imperium were much more lackadaisical; as per Whartung: we played with ships and worlds and never paid much attention to the larger story underneath. I read the TAS newsfeeds but rarely incorporated them in "our" version of the OTU. I'll stick with my PollyAnna world view of the Imperium (except when I need them to be the bad guys). Hey, as previously noted it is a mind-boggling huge Imperium and I really feel it can run a full gamut of the political spectrum across that wide swath of stars.
It all depends on which side of the fence you are on really: for those in power, it may seem a paradise. Those not in power, no paradise.
My early views of the Imperium were much more lackadaisical; as per Whartung: we played with ships and worlds and never paid much attention to the larger story underneath. I read the TAS newsfeeds but rarely incorporated them in "our" version of the OTU. I'll stick with my PollyAnna world view of the Imperium (except when I need them to be the bad guys). Hey, as previously noted it is a mind-boggling huge Imperium and I really feel it can run a full gamut of the political spectrum across that wide swath of stars.
