Plasma/Fusion pistols

[Zparkz]

I have tried to recreate the fusion pistol mentioned in the TNE adventure "The once and future emperor" in the TNE rulebook.

There is no problem in making the gun small, but the recoil is a killer. Uncompensated a fusion pistol may have a recoil high as 18 (pulse effect of 0.1Mj)

IT seems that recoil goes down as the pulse effect goes up. Do any of you have any suggestion for a fix?

 

[far-trader]

Make it recoiless*

Just be sure to fire it gangsta style so you don't burn you head off

* as in the Recoiless Rifle, aka Bazooka. By making the barrel an open ended (both ends) affair, all the recoil exhaust goes out the back end. There's a plasma bazooka on page 356 of the TNE Book that explains the concept.

 

[Zparkz]

I thought of that, but it makes the weapon very unusable in close quarters or if you need to fire quickly. Too easy to set something on fire or get in the way of the back blast.

 

[mike wightman]

Build in inertial compensation, it's the only way the recoil can be controlled.
Use the CT description of it being a "biased grav field" instead of a harness...

What TL are you building it at?

 

[Zparkz]

I design it at TL 15.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Design specks:

TL 15
Effect 0.05Mj
Chambers 1
Magazine 10 shots

Kg Price
Firing Unit 0.1 200
Support HW 0.1 200
Compensator 0.1 100

Weapon Ammo Box Magazine
Price 500 0.4 3.36 7
Volume 0.2 0.01 0.336 0.336
Weight 0.1 0.04 0.336 0.736

Loaded Weight 0.836Kg
Damage 7D
Recoil 17
Short Range 34
Pack weight 0.2Kg</pre>[/QUOTE]On such a small weapon I think a pack isn't necessary. But adding the pack weight to the weapon won't change much.

One solution may be to increase the size of the compensator arm and make it a part of the arm of the wielder. The weapon attackes automatically to the compensator arm when wielded. With the current designd compensator arm, the recoil goes down from 44 to 17. It should be possible to get it under 10 with a larger compensator arm. One weighting 0.1 kg isn't large, and it shouldn't be able to handle a recoil of 44. It weight hardly more than a handfull of paperclips.

And yes I use FF&S 1

 

[mike wightman]

Does building it at TL16+ help at all?

According to the MT TL chart the plasma pistol is a TL17 weapon, a fusion pistol may well be TL18+.

 

[Zparkz]

As the TL increases it gets worse. At TL 16 the recoil with compensator jumps from 17 to 25. At 18 it goes down to 17 again.When the TL reaches 20 it jumps up again to 18.

The problem is the way weapons are designed. A 0.05Mj weapon weighs 100 grams without any magazine and support hardware. At 50 000 joules an ordinary rifle or laser will be very heavy.

 

[mike wightman]

Hmm, perhaps there is something wrong with the design formula.
There was errata for FF&S, and a redone energy weapon design system.

 

[far-trader]

I know I was trying to stay off the board to get more work done, but I'm a gearhead

Besides, I had nothing else to do to unwind last night so I decided to run some numbers. I couldn't get mine to jive with yours and now you have this recoil weirdness. That's not what I see the recoil doing, and I don't see a TL20 listing on my recoil table at all You did say FF&S1 right, meaning the TNE version, not the T4 version? Are you using some spreadsheets from somewhere?

I get different numbers for everything you listed, so much so that I just made up my own design, see how this grabs you...

-------

TL17 Fusion Pistol

This is the weapon used in the infamous assault that kicked off the darkest times of the Imperium. It was a one off custum design made to appear as the standard heavy revolver worn by many high nobles, complete with precious metals and jewels.

Design parameters:

Weighing just under 2kg loaded the 0.07Mj pulsed fusion pistol does damage 3 with penatration 1/2-1-4 and a short range of 3.5m with basic optics. Firing 7 GCF cartridge rounds from an integral cylinder the weapon has a recoil of 7 and firing with both hands in a braced stance is highly recommended. The basic cost is Cr2,275 though the precious metals, jewels, and craftsmanship add considerably to the actual value. Historically as a collectible it is priceless. The rounds cost a mere Cr3 for a loaded quick change cylinder.

My numbers:

At 0.07Mj the damage is 3 : D=11.5(sqrt0.07)

A 0.07Mj TL16 power cartridge is 56g and Cr0.3 with a diameter of 14.4mm and length of 43.2mm

Firing unit 0.07kg and Cr1,050 : kg=1(0.07) and Cr7500(0.07)(2)

Support hdwr 0.07kg and Cr1,050 : kg=1(0.07) and Cr7500(0.07)(2)

Fire control is included basic optics only, high-energy weaps don't seem to adjust range for sighting which may be silly but we really don't need them for this gun anyway, it has one purpose, to kill completely at very close range.

Recoil compensation by inertial comp weighs 0.07kg* and costs Cr175 : kg=0.5(0.07) and Cr2500(0.07)

* heavied up some for more weight, important for recoil

Feed system is 0.4kg for 7 rounds empty, weight of 7 rounds is 0.4kg more for a total of 0.8kg. Cost of cylinder is Cr1 and cost of 7 rounds is Cr2

Short range of 3.5m : Meters=50(0.07)

Total loaded weight 2kg*

* the total weight of the weapon is 1kg but has been heavied up by 100% for more control

Recoil of 7 : R=(((150(sqrt0.07))/2kg)+4)0.3

Bulk of 1* (handgun size) : Bulk=2kg(.75)

* actually 1.5 but I round down

Anyway, that's what I come up with.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Hmm, perhaps there is something wrong with the design formula.
There was errata for FF&S, and a redone energy weapon design system.

Hmm, the only errata I have for high-energy weapons is in the recoil formula. How "redone" do you recall this change being Sigg? That could explain our diffent numbers since I'm going straight out of the book (except for the recoil correction).

 

[Zparkz]

Far-trader your figures are off. The original heavy energy weapon design was one of the major complaints here on TML in 93 when FF&S was released. A TL 10 grenade launcher was far better in all aspects.

A fix was later made and published in "Path of Tears" if I do not remember wrongly.

Major revision was range, penetration, damage, prices and ammunition.

Edit: I have also checked my spreadsheet against published plasma/fusion guns in Striker II and other publications. My spreadsheet comes out pretty close. Most values that are different are so due to rounding.

 

[mike wightman]

There was a Challenge article in issue 76, and an appendix in Striker II, called "Putting the heat back into plasma", which increases range and damage for energy weapons.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Zparkz:
Far-trader your figures are off.

I'd say they are on, but as noted, that's to the book and not the later revisions. They might be around here somewhere but they weren't with the book

I did wonder if that was the case.

So were these "improvements" balanced with everything else or just thrown in without due consideration?

Oh, and where could I snag a copy of the spreadsheet Zparkz? Is it in the fLibrary by chance?

 

[mike wightman]

Mass of EPG cartridge = volume x 4

Short range for plasma guns = 100 x sqrrt pulse energy in Megajoules

Short range for fusion guns = 150 x sqrrt pulse energy in Megajoules

Damage = 30 x sqrrt pulse energy in Megajoules

Penetration for plasma and fusion guns is now 1-2-10

 

[Zparkz]

I have been toying a bit with the design.
Adding weight to either the recoil compensator or to the firing unit itself may be the answer.

If weight is added to the compensator its overall effectiveness should be increased. Like double the effect for double the weight and so on. If the compensator works as an exoskeleton to the wielders arm,t here might not be any penalties as the gun will be quite heavy to hold at arms length if it weight much more than 1 kilo.

Another thing is that the effective short range should be reduced due to the inaccuracy of using one hand. However this may not change the effective range for penetration.

Any thoughts?

 

[far-trader]

Thanks for the update Sigg

 

[mike wightman]

No probs

I'll post the price changes later...

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Adding extra weight was how I solved the problem many, many years ago.

I'll dig out the spreadsheet later.

 

[mike wightman]

Here are the cost changes:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Component Plasma Fusion
firing unit 600 1000
support hardware 600 1000
gyro-comp. 600 600
inertial comp. 1000 1000
recoil cradle 25 25
towing carriage 2 2
autoloader 10 10
gun shield 1 1</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Andrew Boulton]

http://www.downport.com/amv/Weapons/T4GS201.zip

It's actually for FF&S2, but shouldn't be too difficult to convert.