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Pulling G's in High Guard

Enoff

SOC-13
Subject: Proposal, Adapting High Guard to a Hex Oriented Vector/Velocity Combat System.

Ok I have been doing some research and comparing several different space combat systems. At the moment this will just deal with the idea of vector movement and G forces.

The basic rule of vector movement is assumed; In any movement phase, any ship which is not accelerated by thrust or gravity will move as it did in the previous turn, in the same direction, and travelling an equal distance.

I am looking at these systems: Attack Vector, Triplanetary, CT book2 and High Guard. My objective is to use a hex based solar system as in Triplanetary, with vector movement as in Vector Attack adapted to some scales, ideas and premises as given in CT Traveller.

Scale would be as given in CT Book 2 pg26:
Each turn represents 1,000 seconds
1 mm equals 100 km
Thrust 1G = 100mm
(1,000 seconds acceleration at 1G will produce a velocity change of 10,000 km, or 100mm in scale, per turn).

* 1 Hex will equal 100mm or 1G thrust in a turn.
** Ship facing is important to determine weapon arcs.

I am assuming the Drive number will determine the G thrust output going from 1 to 6. This number will be used like in Attack Vector as Movement points to change course and change facing. 1G thrust equals 1 hex movement; 1G thrust(or movement point is need to change facing per hexside at end of movement). As in Attack Vector facing is determined in the first part of the movement phase(course change) in the direction thrust was applied. Later if there is any thrust or movement points left after movement they could be used to change facing. (Triplanetary is different allowing more course changes during movement with facing being unimportant).

Here are some assumptions I am making. Taking from High Guard pg17 the idea that Grav plates built into the ship allow High-G maneuvering while interior G-Fields remain normal. I thought perhaps the drive number could be used to determine the amount of G's the crew could operate at normal with no penalty. Any number over this would modify crew functions -1 per G over. So a ship with a Maneuver drive rated at 4 could endure 4 G velocity movement suffering no penalty. Any number over would reduce crew quality.

Perhaps later to complicate things Tech levels could modify the amout of Gs the ship's gav plates could handle. So that a Tech 15 ship with a drive rated 6 could handle more Gs than a Tech 10 ship with the same drive rating. (haven't thought this out yet, main idea though is to keep it playable without becoming too cumbersom).

So even though you could possibly build up velocity from turn to turn you are forced to stay within a reasonable limit so not to reduce your crew's effectiveness.

Does this sound like a reasonable way to deal with pulling G's?
 
Subject: Proposal, Adapting High Guard to a Hex Oriented Vector/Velocity Combat System.

Ok I have been doing some research and comparing several different space combat systems. At the moment this will just deal with the idea of vector movement and G forces.

The basic rule of vector movement is assumed; In any movement phase, any ship which is not accelerated by thrust or gravity will move as it did in the previous turn, in the same direction, and travelling an equal distance.

I am looking at these systems: Attack Vector, Triplanetary, CT book2 and High Guard. My objective is to use a hex based solar system as in Triplanetary, with vector movement as in Vector Attack adapted to some scales, ideas and premises as given in CT Traveller.

Scale would be as given in CT Book 2 pg26:
Each turn represents 1,000 seconds
1 mm equals 100 km
Thrust 1G = 100mm
(1,000 seconds acceleration at 1G will produce a velocity change of 10,000 km, or 100mm in scale, per turn).

* 1 Hex will equal 100mm or 1G thrust in a turn.
** Ship facing is important to determine weapon arcs.

I am assuming the Drive number will determine the G thrust output going from 1 to 6. This number will be used like in Attack Vector as Movement points to change course and change facing. 1G thrust equals 1 hex movement; 1G thrust(or movement point is need to change facing per hexside at end of movement). As in Attack Vector facing is determined in the first part of the movement phase(course change) in the direction thrust was applied. Later if there is any thrust or movement points left after movement they could be used to change facing. (Triplanetary is different allowing more course changes during movement with facing being unimportant).

Here are some assumptions I am making. Taking from High Guard pg17 the idea that Grav plates built into the ship allow High-G maneuvering while interior G-Fields remain normal. I thought perhaps the drive number could be used to determine the amount of G's the crew could operate at normal with no penalty. Any number over this would modify crew functions -1 per G over. So a ship with a Maneuver drive rated at 4 could endure 4 G velocity movement suffering no penalty. Any number over would reduce crew quality.

Perhaps later to complicate things Tech levels could modify the amout of Gs the ship's gav plates could handle. So that a Tech 15 ship with a drive rated 6 could handle more Gs than a Tech 10 ship with the same drive rating. (haven't thought this out yet, main idea though is to keep it playable without becoming too cumbersom).

So even though you could possibly build up velocity from turn to turn you are forced to stay within a reasonable limit so not to reduce your crew's effectiveness.

Does this sound like a reasonable way to deal with pulling G's?
 
See Mayday for a vector movement system for HG.

In short, accelerate 1 hex per G of agility each turn, 5 hexes is short range and 15 hexes is maximum range.

Planets are one hex big and apply gravity to ships moving one hex from them.
 
See Mayday for a vector movement system for HG.

In short, accelerate 1 hex per G of agility each turn, 5 hexes is short range and 15 hexes is maximum range.

Planets are one hex big and apply gravity to ships moving one hex from them.
 
BTW, the book with the best blend of Mayday style vector movement with Traveller combat is GTIW, where you really do need to watch your back.
 
BTW, the book with the best blend of Mayday style vector movement with Traveller combat is GTIW, where you really do need to watch your back.
 
One thing to point out about hex based movements and vector movement is that distance travelled is 1/2 Acceleration x time squared. Velocity on the other hand equals Initial velocity plus acelleration x time. What ends up happening is that unless you move "half speed" for accellerations and full velocity for built up velocity, your movements will not match formulas given in Traveller Book 2.

Example: suppose you make each hex equal to the value of 1/2 G movement. A 6 G accelleration added to a ship who already has built up speed from 3 previous turns of 6 G would have:

6 x 3 x 2 hexes (remember, each hex equals a half G movement) plus 6 hexes of accelleration for a total of 36 hexes plus 6. That is his TURN's move for 42 hexes. Next turn however, he gets to move (assuming no accellerations or changes of vector) 6 x 4 x 2 or 48 hexes.

Note that MAYDAY could have used half hexes to make the game much more accurate had they wanted to, but they simplified the whole thing. High Guard uses 20 minute turns. 20 minutes is not 1,000 seconds, but in fact, 1,200 seconds.
 
One thing to point out about hex based movements and vector movement is that distance travelled is 1/2 Acceleration x time squared. Velocity on the other hand equals Initial velocity plus acelleration x time. What ends up happening is that unless you move "half speed" for accellerations and full velocity for built up velocity, your movements will not match formulas given in Traveller Book 2.

Example: suppose you make each hex equal to the value of 1/2 G movement. A 6 G accelleration added to a ship who already has built up speed from 3 previous turns of 6 G would have:

6 x 3 x 2 hexes (remember, each hex equals a half G movement) plus 6 hexes of accelleration for a total of 36 hexes plus 6. That is his TURN's move for 42 hexes. Next turn however, he gets to move (assuming no accellerations or changes of vector) 6 x 4 x 2 or 48 hexes.

Note that MAYDAY could have used half hexes to make the game much more accurate had they wanted to, but they simplified the whole thing. High Guard uses 20 minute turns. 20 minutes is not 1,000 seconds, but in fact, 1,200 seconds.
 
Originally posted by Henry J Cobb:
See Mayday for a vector movement system for HG.

In short, accelerate 1 hex per G of agility each turn, 5 hexes is short range and 15 hexes is maximum range.

Planets are one hex big and apply gravity to ships moving one hex from them.
Except that a ship with a maneuver drive of 6 and an agility of zero should still have a 6g move?

Agility is still used as a defensive modifier on the combat tables.
 
Originally posted by Henry J Cobb:
See Mayday for a vector movement system for HG.

In short, accelerate 1 hex per G of agility each turn, 5 hexes is short range and 15 hexes is maximum range.

Planets are one hex big and apply gravity to ships moving one hex from them.
Except that a ship with a maneuver drive of 6 and an agility of zero should still have a 6g move?

Agility is still used as a defensive modifier on the combat tables.
 
I don't have Mayday to compare with, perhaps eventually I will order it, I don't know. I don't want to get to the point where I have a hundred unplayed games on my shelf again. What is GTIW? And yes I am going for an over simplification because to some extent we are dealing with fuzzy science and logic here anyways. aka controlled gravity within a ship by some sort of technology as an example.

Its just to make a gameable space battle in 2D like Triplanetary and Vector Attack with spaceships built with High Guard and CT bk2 specs.

I will have to think about the idea of agility. I was just going to use the Drive number rating like "thrust" in Attack Vector for movement and facing changes. I was going to bring in later the computer programs for evasive manuevering as a combat modifier without any effect on the actually hex or vector movement. This I guess would be my agility?

My whole idea was to bring some sort of G stress in so that we weren't burning 48 hexes across the map. I would like to kept the game within the scale of the hex map solar system. In my fuzzy logic system a ship with a maneuver drive rating of 6 blazing across the system at 48 hexes (perhaps I should halve this?) would suffer a -42 (or -21) to crew related activities. Everything from gunners, pilots and repair crews.

So you don't want to be going this fast because the crew can't function. I guess I am assuming you feel the effects of velocity in spaceflight, is this true? How many G's can a human body take?

Unrealistic I know, but without actually creating a computer space flight simulator with real modelled physics. Its just cardboard counters on a hex gridded piece of paper.

I just want to bring in enough variables so that tactics can be applied and maneuver choices would be important.

High Guard just seems to me to be an elaboration of Imperium where you have short and long distance. With a battle line of ships with some placed in reserve covered by the battleline. Which is probably just an oversimplification of WWI/WWII Naval combat. Facing and firing arcs are unimportant as is tracking missiles and torpedos.

Even though I am not looking at the rules for this , Starfleet Federation & Empire is probably at the back of my mind. It was a fun gaming system, even though totally unrealistic.

What I want to do is actually blow up some of these ships everyone is spending so much time making! ha ha and have an easy system to PBEM with, being able to tack everyone's movements.
 
I don't have Mayday to compare with, perhaps eventually I will order it, I don't know. I don't want to get to the point where I have a hundred unplayed games on my shelf again. What is GTIW? And yes I am going for an over simplification because to some extent we are dealing with fuzzy science and logic here anyways. aka controlled gravity within a ship by some sort of technology as an example.

Its just to make a gameable space battle in 2D like Triplanetary and Vector Attack with spaceships built with High Guard and CT bk2 specs.

I will have to think about the idea of agility. I was just going to use the Drive number rating like "thrust" in Attack Vector for movement and facing changes. I was going to bring in later the computer programs for evasive manuevering as a combat modifier without any effect on the actually hex or vector movement. This I guess would be my agility?

My whole idea was to bring some sort of G stress in so that we weren't burning 48 hexes across the map. I would like to kept the game within the scale of the hex map solar system. In my fuzzy logic system a ship with a maneuver drive rating of 6 blazing across the system at 48 hexes (perhaps I should halve this?) would suffer a -42 (or -21) to crew related activities. Everything from gunners, pilots and repair crews.

So you don't want to be going this fast because the crew can't function. I guess I am assuming you feel the effects of velocity in spaceflight, is this true? How many G's can a human body take?

Unrealistic I know, but without actually creating a computer space flight simulator with real modelled physics. Its just cardboard counters on a hex gridded piece of paper.

I just want to bring in enough variables so that tactics can be applied and maneuver choices would be important.

High Guard just seems to me to be an elaboration of Imperium where you have short and long distance. With a battle line of ships with some placed in reserve covered by the battleline. Which is probably just an oversimplification of WWI/WWII Naval combat. Facing and firing arcs are unimportant as is tracking missiles and torpedos.

Even though I am not looking at the rules for this , Starfleet Federation & Empire is probably at the back of my mind. It was a fun gaming system, even though totally unrealistic.

What I want to do is actually blow up some of these ships everyone is spending so much time making! ha ha and have an easy system to PBEM with, being able to tack everyone's movements.
 
I think the higher drive ratings will show up as an agility in ships through gameplay.

They will be able to accelerate and deaccelerate faster plus have more facing changes.

How you choose to spend your drive number rating aka "thrust (Vector Attack)" as applied to movement and facing will be important.

This will allow an element of maneuver to effect a battle outcome as opposed to two battlelines just beating each other up.

Also higher technology allows you to make big and bigger ships more maneuverable. I think it might be too complex to create more tables to factor in higher technology making smaller ships even more maneuverable that have already reached the max drive number in earlier technologies.

I think this is in some ways consistant with sci-fi novels like Triplanetary by E.E. Doc Smith or Perry Rhodan.

Low techs will use highly maneuvable fighters, but higer techs will use highly maneuvable battleships that can fight like fighters.
 
I think the higher drive ratings will show up as an agility in ships through gameplay.

They will be able to accelerate and deaccelerate faster plus have more facing changes.

How you choose to spend your drive number rating aka "thrust (Vector Attack)" as applied to movement and facing will be important.

This will allow an element of maneuver to effect a battle outcome as opposed to two battlelines just beating each other up.

Also higher technology allows you to make big and bigger ships more maneuverable. I think it might be too complex to create more tables to factor in higher technology making smaller ships even more maneuverable that have already reached the max drive number in earlier technologies.

I think this is in some ways consistant with sci-fi novels like Triplanetary by E.E. Doc Smith or Perry Rhodan.

Low techs will use highly maneuvable fighters, but higer techs will use highly maneuvable battleships that can fight like fighters.
 
It sounds like you're trying to create a simpler version of Power Projection-Fleet, which is an adaptation of High Guard to the FULL THRUST miniatures system. PP-F has vector movement (with gravity effects) and a combat system that allows use of all the TRAVELLER weapons.
 
It sounds like you're trying to create a simpler version of Power Projection-Fleet, which is an adaptation of High Guard to the FULL THRUST miniatures system. PP-F has vector movement (with gravity effects) and a combat system that allows use of all the TRAVELLER weapons.
 
Yes probably!

I am just adapting the rules I have. Money has to go to food and lodging at the moment
 
Yes probably!

I am just adapting the rules I have. Money has to go to food and lodging at the moment
 
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