Question about damage Xd±Y

[hiro]

In the Mongoose reboot thread several posters mentioned doing away with weapon damage dice modifiers:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showpost.php?p=402151&postcount=6
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showpost.php?p=402219&postcount=17
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showpost.php?p=402247&postcount=21

I'd like to ask why you think this is a bad thing and what you would have the damage die be for the popular weapons?

 

[aramis]

CT 2e (1981) made all damages whole dice, and randomized each die of damage after the first wound. It made it much harder to KO someone with guns.... except by a lucky shot with the first hit going to the weak attribute.
Randomizing the first hit, as CT did, makes it less like to KO someone.

Mongoose changed the damage system from CT's in several ways... and of them, only the armor change and adding the margin really make and improvement over CT.

Further, having them all be Xd+0 makes it much easier to remember...

 

[hiro]

Aramis

Thanks for your reply.

Do you think either system is more "realistic"?

I dont have access to the CT rules these days, how do the classic weapons compare on number of dice? Say with a 9mm auto pistol, 5mm rifle and 7mm rifle?

(Did CT even have 5mm and 7mm?)

 

[saundby]

I prefer the straight dice method because it speeds up play and is sufficiently realistic to represent things for the game.

To have a system able to "realistically" represent the differences between the 5mm and 7mm rifles you mention would require a lot more than an adjustment to the damage dice. For games that are not completely combat-centric it's not worth the game time spent on it.

In CT, both would be called a "rifle" for a gun with a normal action (I won't even get into the discussion of the fact that you can't really define the weapon's damage ability just on the basis of the load--e.g. a .45ACP fired out of a Colt Commander vs. a carbine chambered for it.) And both do 3D.

I throw in DMs on the fly when I feel that the specifics of the circumstances justify it. But I prefer my rules not require me to remember which rifle is 3D+2 and which is 3D+3. In the game, it really doesn't matter enough to bother. The variations in the 3D die roll alone are enough, IMO, to model the different possible outcomes in combat.

I'm strongly against trying too hard for realism. Once you start down that road, there's no end to it. Before long you've got players trying to get DMs for having gas checks and cartridges with a certain number of reloads behind them. Barrel wear tracking, gunsmith DMs on the weapon, etc., etc.

And in the end they don't end up being any more realistic than rolling the dice and coming up with an explanation of the results after the dice come to a stop.

The best way to add realism to the game IMO is having the players read some actual event post mortems to learn more about what happens in actual fights than Hollywood teaches them. Then they can apply that knowledge to the game results.*

*They might also learn some good lessons for real life, too. Like screaming while emptying the magazine without bothering to get a sight picture isn't likely to get you the results you desire. :rofl:

 

[aramis]

Aramis

Thanks for your reply.

Do you think either system is more "realistic"?

I dont have access to the CT rules these days, how do the classic weapons compare on number of dice? Say with a 9mm auto pistol, 5mm rifle and 7mm rifle?

(Did CT even have 5mm and 7mm?)

Yes, yes it did. Well, not exactly THOSE sizes...

Here's what data is present in CT sources I can easily dig up - paraphrased.

In Bk 1 (pp 38-40):
Body Pistol: 5g projectile 500-600m/s
Auto Pistol: 9mm 10g 500-600m/s
Revolver: 9mm 10g 400-500m/s
Carbine: 6mm 5g 900m/s
Rifle: 7mm 10g 900m/s
Autorifle: same round as the rifle, but different delivery mechanism (belt, not clip) Thus 7mm 10g 900m/s
Shotgun: 18mm. Either 6x 7mm, or 130x 3mm, total 30g, 350m/s
SMG: Autopistol ammo, different clips. Ths 9mm 10g 500-600m/s

In Mercenary (pp. 36-39):
LAG is defined as 20mm 30g 400-500m/s
LMG as 6mm 5g 900m/s
Assault Rifle 6mm 5g 900m/s - same as the LMG
ACR 9mm 5g HE 900m/s or 9mm sabot on 6mm 3g 1200m/s APDS
GG 4mm 4g 1500m/s
Snub 10mm 7g 100-150m/s
Acellerator 6mm 5g final bullet at 700-800m/s final, but it has an initial of 100-150m/s from the barrel (the rest of the speed is the booster on the back of the round.

Note the lack of overlap, tho... we only see a battle rifle, and an auto rifle...
the Assault rifle is the 6mm rifle. The description is pretty much an M16.