pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Sounds right.
Reading High Guard
- Thread starter Supplement Four
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pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Sounds right.
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
That's crazy. How could the original designers of HG think that'd work?
80 different separate ships?
A player would absolutely have to group them into batteries. Maybe ten fighters equal one squadron, or something like that. </font>[/QUOTE]Being an old (read "ancient") Star Fleet Battles guys, I group them in dozens (with a "command" fighter-extra commo equip and an extra seat) for a baker's dozen.
Yeh, I never understood why the grouping wasn't specifically listed. Probably for adaptation to different fleet doctrines.
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
That's crazy. How could the original designers of HG think that'd work?
80 different separate ships?
A player would absolutely have to group them into batteries. Maybe ten fighters equal one squadron, or something like that. </font>[/QUOTE]Being an old (read "ancient") Star Fleet Battles guys, I group them in dozens (with a "command" fighter-extra commo equip and an extra seat) for a baker's dozen.
Yeh, I never understood why the grouping wasn't specifically listed. Probably for adaptation to different fleet doctrines.
Yes, technically your 80 fighters are 80 individual ships each acting just like a large ship. Adventure 5 Trillion Credit Squadron has probability based rules for massed fires based on the to hit roll.
As for hits on fighters, or any craft, if the weapon battery size is greater than the sum of the target ship size and 1/2 the targets armour rating then you get critical hits, that will probably kill your fighter.
EG F% fusion gun hits a fighter with 4 factors of armour. That would give 5 criticals - 2 criticals due to the armour. The fighter is probably dead.
A note on fighters: small fighters tend to have small computers and against large high agility ships like the imperial navy, the fighters won't be able to actual hit their targets. Thats why Supplement 9 has a 50tn imperial heavy fighter with a big computer and lots of armour. Little fighters are fine for attacking merchant ships and shuttles etc.
Cheers
Richard
As for hits on fighters, or any craft, if the weapon battery size is greater than the sum of the target ship size and 1/2 the targets armour rating then you get critical hits, that will probably kill your fighter.
EG F% fusion gun hits a fighter with 4 factors of armour. That would give 5 criticals - 2 criticals due to the armour. The fighter is probably dead.
A note on fighters: small fighters tend to have small computers and against large high agility ships like the imperial navy, the fighters won't be able to actual hit their targets. Thats why Supplement 9 has a 50tn imperial heavy fighter with a big computer and lots of armour. Little fighters are fine for attacking merchant ships and shuttles etc.
Cheers
Richard
Yes, technically your 80 fighters are 80 individual ships each acting just like a large ship. Adventure 5 Trillion Credit Squadron has probability based rules for massed fires based on the to hit roll.
As for hits on fighters, or any craft, if the weapon battery size is greater than the sum of the target ship size and 1/2 the targets armour rating then you get critical hits, that will probably kill your fighter.
EG F% fusion gun hits a fighter with 4 factors of armour. That would give 5 criticals - 2 criticals due to the armour. The fighter is probably dead.
A note on fighters: small fighters tend to have small computers and against large high agility ships like the imperial navy, the fighters won't be able to actual hit their targets. Thats why Supplement 9 has a 50tn imperial heavy fighter with a big computer and lots of armour. Little fighters are fine for attacking merchant ships and shuttles etc.
Cheers
Richard
As for hits on fighters, or any craft, if the weapon battery size is greater than the sum of the target ship size and 1/2 the targets armour rating then you get critical hits, that will probably kill your fighter.
EG F% fusion gun hits a fighter with 4 factors of armour. That would give 5 criticals - 2 criticals due to the armour. The fighter is probably dead.
A note on fighters: small fighters tend to have small computers and against large high agility ships like the imperial navy, the fighters won't be able to actual hit their targets. Thats why Supplement 9 has a 50tn imperial heavy fighter with a big computer and lots of armour. Little fighters are fine for attacking merchant ships and shuttles etc.
Cheers
Richard
well the preferred method is statistical resolution. it's not hard. say you have 1000 fighters, and decide to assign them equally to four different targets. each fighter individually hits on (say) 10+, and penetrates the target's nuclear damper screen on (say) 10+. so, (250 salvos / target) (6 hits / 36 launches) (6 penetrations / 36 hits) = 6.9 hits on each target on average. you can then roll by hand on the actual damage effect table, or use statistical resolution on that as well if there are many hits.
some people house-rule that up to 10 fighters can cooperate and act like a 10-turret battery, thus firing as one weapon and getting a better chance to hit and better penetration against screens. various rules attach.
as per the damage table. of course there are also automatic critical hits - if a weapon factor exceeds a target's size factor then it does a number of automatic critical hits equal to that excession. for example if a factor 4 laser hits a size 1 fighter then in addition to the normal damage done it also does 3 critical hits.
well the preferred method is statistical resolution. it's not hard. say you have 1000 fighters, and decide to assign them equally to four different targets. each fighter individually hits on (say) 10+, and penetrates the target's nuclear damper screen on (say) 10+. so, (250 salvos / target) (6 hits / 36 launches) (6 penetrations / 36 hits) = 6.9 hits on each target on average. you can then roll by hand on the actual damage effect table, or use statistical resolution on that as well if there are many hits.
some people house-rule that up to 10 fighters can cooperate and act like a 10-turret battery, thus firing as one weapon and getting a better chance to hit and better penetration against screens. various rules attach.
as per the damage table. of course there are also automatic critical hits - if a weapon factor exceeds a target's size factor then it does a number of automatic critical hits equal to that excession. for example if a factor 4 laser hits a size 1 fighter then in addition to the normal damage done it also does 3 critical hits.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I always group fighters into squadrons of 10 (and then into fighter groups of 100, and in really big battles fighter wings of 1000) and basically treat their weapons as one battery per squadron.
For damage to fighters I just assume that one hit by a battery mission-kills one squadron (that's right, one squadron of 10) of fighters. After all, one factor-9 battery is at least 20 weapons. That's enough to mission-kill a fighter squadron.
For damage to fighters I just assume that one hit by a battery mission-kills one squadron (that's right, one squadron of 10) of fighters. After all, one factor-9 battery is at least 20 weapons. That's enough to mission-kill a fighter squadron.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I always group fighters into squadrons of 10 (and then into fighter groups of 100, and in really big battles fighter wings of 1000) and basically treat their weapons as one battery per squadron.
For damage to fighters I just assume that one hit by a battery mission-kills one squadron (that's right, one squadron of 10) of fighters. After all, one factor-9 battery is at least 20 weapons. That's enough to mission-kill a fighter squadron.
For damage to fighters I just assume that one hit by a battery mission-kills one squadron (that's right, one squadron of 10) of fighters. After all, one factor-9 battery is at least 20 weapons. That's enough to mission-kill a fighter squadron.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
It seems to me that fighters can be considered "flexible" batteries that a player can regroup each turn.
For example, let's say you have 80 fighters. Each fighter has two beam lasers and a sandcaster.
During the Battle Formation Step, the player decides to use each of his 80 fighters as a single vessel. Defensively, this isn't a bad choice because it gives the enemy a bunch of targets to shoot at. Now, a fighter will probably be destroyed when hit by the enemy, but losses will be kept to a minimum because the targets are so dispersed.
Offensively, this isn't a good play at all. Each fighter would have a Laser USP factor of 2, making it the second worst hitting laser on the chart.
Now, round two, the same player decides to re-group his fighters, this time as five individual groups of 15, and one group of 5. Each group acts as a separate "ship".
The five groups of 15 would each have a laser USP of 8, while the group of 5 has a laser USP of 5.
Wouldn't something like that work?
For example, let's say you have 80 fighters. Each fighter has two beam lasers and a sandcaster.
During the Battle Formation Step, the player decides to use each of his 80 fighters as a single vessel. Defensively, this isn't a bad choice because it gives the enemy a bunch of targets to shoot at. Now, a fighter will probably be destroyed when hit by the enemy, but losses will be kept to a minimum because the targets are so dispersed.
Offensively, this isn't a good play at all. Each fighter would have a Laser USP factor of 2, making it the second worst hitting laser on the chart.
Now, round two, the same player decides to re-group his fighters, this time as five individual groups of 15, and one group of 5. Each group acts as a separate "ship".
The five groups of 15 would each have a laser USP of 8, while the group of 5 has a laser USP of 5.
Wouldn't something like that work?
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
It seems to me that fighters can be considered "flexible" batteries that a player can regroup each turn.
For example, let's say you have 80 fighters. Each fighter has two beam lasers and a sandcaster.
During the Battle Formation Step, the player decides to use each of his 80 fighters as a single vessel. Defensively, this isn't a bad choice because it gives the enemy a bunch of targets to shoot at. Now, a fighter will probably be destroyed when hit by the enemy, but losses will be kept to a minimum because the targets are so dispersed.
Offensively, this isn't a good play at all. Each fighter would have a Laser USP factor of 2, making it the second worst hitting laser on the chart.
Now, round two, the same player decides to re-group his fighters, this time as five individual groups of 15, and one group of 5. Each group acts as a separate "ship".
The five groups of 15 would each have a laser USP of 8, while the group of 5 has a laser USP of 5.
Wouldn't something like that work?
For example, let's say you have 80 fighters. Each fighter has two beam lasers and a sandcaster.
During the Battle Formation Step, the player decides to use each of his 80 fighters as a single vessel. Defensively, this isn't a bad choice because it gives the enemy a bunch of targets to shoot at. Now, a fighter will probably be destroyed when hit by the enemy, but losses will be kept to a minimum because the targets are so dispersed.
Offensively, this isn't a good play at all. Each fighter would have a Laser USP factor of 2, making it the second worst hitting laser on the chart.
Now, round two, the same player decides to re-group his fighters, this time as five individual groups of 15, and one group of 5. Each group acts as a separate "ship".
The five groups of 15 would each have a laser USP of 8, while the group of 5 has a laser USP of 5.
Wouldn't something like that work?
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
'fyou're the ref and you say it works, then it works. remember though that hg2 is a very minimal system and houseruling anything will have unexpectedly significant effects on game balance and game play. </font>[/QUOTE]Am I missing something with playing fighters that way?
If you use statistical combat, the 80 fighters are all used as one big unit, yes?
Can you foresee a problem playing fighters this way?
I think the more that are grouped together, the more powerful the attack, but the more damage the fighters will take too. Many enemy batteries will fire into the fighter cloud of 15 ships (treating the 15 ships as one individual ship, using statistical damage when the enemy fires at it).
Breaking the fighters into smaller groups reduces their attacking power, but also makes them harder to destroy. A battery from an enemy vessel can't destroy a fighter flying outsystem while its guns are pointed at the other fighter flying insystem.
Are you saying playing fighters this way will unbalance the game?
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
BTW, what's HG2? Fan created? Is is "completed"? Where do you get it?
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
'fyou're the ref and you say it works, then it works. remember though that hg2 is a very minimal system and houseruling anything will have unexpectedly significant effects on game balance and game play. </font>[/QUOTE]Am I missing something with playing fighters that way?
If you use statistical combat, the 80 fighters are all used as one big unit, yes?
Can you foresee a problem playing fighters this way?
I think the more that are grouped together, the more powerful the attack, but the more damage the fighters will take too. Many enemy batteries will fire into the fighter cloud of 15 ships (treating the 15 ships as one individual ship, using statistical damage when the enemy fires at it).
Breaking the fighters into smaller groups reduces their attacking power, but also makes them harder to destroy. A battery from an enemy vessel can't destroy a fighter flying outsystem while its guns are pointed at the other fighter flying insystem.
Are you saying playing fighters this way will unbalance the game?
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
BTW, what's HG2? Fan created? Is is "completed"? Where do you get it?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
HG2 is Second Edition/Printing of High Guard. It differs from First Edition/Printing in some of the construction and combat rules as I recall*
Most notably to my memory is the differences in calculating weapon USPs. Not sure they came out to different actual USPs or just used different maths.
That and some of the cool small bays and barbettes that were dropped.
HG2 is the official version, look at it as errata corrected.
* It's around here somewhere but I'm buried under backlog at the moment, no time to play "Seek the LBB"
I think there was a thread on CotI quite a while back dealing with the differences, search in The Fleet for posts with High Guard or HG and Sigg's id #3235 as a poster.
Most notably to my memory is the differences in calculating weapon USPs. Not sure they came out to different actual USPs or just used different maths.
That and some of the cool small bays and barbettes that were dropped.
HG2 is the official version, look at it as errata corrected.
* It's around here somewhere but I'm buried under backlog at the moment, no time to play "Seek the LBB"
I think there was a thread on CotI quite a while back dealing with the differences, search in The Fleet for posts with High Guard or HG and Sigg's id #3235 as a poster.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
HG2 is Second Edition/Printing of High Guard. It differs from First Edition/Printing in some of the construction and combat rules as I recall*
Most notably to my memory is the differences in calculating weapon USPs. Not sure they came out to different actual USPs or just used different maths.
That and some of the cool small bays and barbettes that were dropped.
HG2 is the official version, look at it as errata corrected.
* It's around here somewhere but I'm buried under backlog at the moment, no time to play "Seek the LBB"
I think there was a thread on CotI quite a while back dealing with the differences, search in The Fleet for posts with High Guard or HG and Sigg's id #3235 as a poster.
Most notably to my memory is the differences in calculating weapon USPs. Not sure they came out to different actual USPs or just used different maths.
That and some of the cool small bays and barbettes that were dropped.
HG2 is the official version, look at it as errata corrected.
* It's around here somewhere but I'm buried under backlog at the moment, no time to play "Seek the LBB"
I think there was a thread on CotI quite a while back dealing with the differences, search in The Fleet for posts with High Guard or HG and Sigg's id #3235 as a poster.
