Reading High Guard

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
HG2 is Second Edition/Printing of High Guard. It differs from First Edition/Printing in some of the construction and combat rules as I recall*

Oh. Gotcha. I knew about the two editions, and I do have the second. But, I didn't realize it was referred to as HG2.

I've always assumed that when people talk about High Guard, they're talking about the revised rules.

Same thing with Traveller. When people refer to the LBBs, I naturally assume they're talking about 2nd edition. Heck, not that many people realize there was a 1st edition.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
HG2 is Second Edition/Printing of High Guard. It differs from First Edition/Printing in some of the construction and combat rules as I recall*

Oh. Gotcha. I knew about the two editions, and I do have the second. But, I didn't realize it was referred to as HG2.

I've always assumed that when people talk about High Guard, they're talking about the revised rules.

Same thing with Traveller. When people refer to the LBBs, I naturally assume they're talking about 2nd edition. Heck, not that many people realize there was a 1st edition.

 

[flykiller]

Can you foresee a problem playing fighters this way?

in hg2 as written, properly designed fighters not only cannot hit each other, at tech 15 they are largely useless against any serious larger opponent. if however you gather them into batteries, while allowing them to retain their -2 to-hit size modifier, they become highly destructive to larger ships. whether or not either situation is a "problem" or is "unbalancing" is up to the ref and what he wants his larger ship battles to be. just need to be aware that little changes make big differences.

 

[flykiller]

Can you foresee a problem playing fighters this way?

in hg2 as written, properly designed fighters not only cannot hit each other, at tech 15 they are largely useless against any serious larger opponent. if however you gather them into batteries, while allowing them to retain their -2 to-hit size modifier, they become highly destructive to larger ships. whether or not either situation is a "problem" or is "unbalancing" is up to the ref and what he wants his larger ship battles to be. just need to be aware that little changes make big differences.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
in hg2 as written, properly designed fighters not only cannot hit each other, at tech 15 they are largely useless against any serious larger opponent. if however you gather them into batteries, while allowing them to retain their -2 to-hit size modifier, they become highly destructive to larger ships. whether or not either situation is a "problem" or is "unbalancing" is up to the ref and what he wants his larger ship battles to be. just need to be aware that little changes make big differences.

Good info to know. I've always heard that fighters were next to useless in HG. And, if I played HG, some Battlestar Galactica-type scenarios would be fun. I saw in Fighting Ships that there is a carrier.

Definitely have to look a the defense, though. Use statistical combat on a group of, say, 15 fighters, and many of those fighters won't last if attacked by the appropriate weapon.

Hmm....maybe the earlier idea in this thread of grouping fighters into squadrons isn't so bad. That way, they're not as dangerous.

A squadron of 10 fighters might be about right.

Need to ponder.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
in hg2 as written, properly designed fighters not only cannot hit each other, at tech 15 they are largely useless against any serious larger opponent. if however you gather them into batteries, while allowing them to retain their -2 to-hit size modifier, they become highly destructive to larger ships. whether or not either situation is a "problem" or is "unbalancing" is up to the ref and what he wants his larger ship battles to be. just need to be aware that little changes make big differences.

Good info to know. I've always heard that fighters were next to useless in HG. And, if I played HG, some Battlestar Galactica-type scenarios would be fun. I saw in Fighting Ships that there is a carrier.

Definitely have to look a the defense, though. Use statistical combat on a group of, say, 15 fighters, and many of those fighters won't last if attacked by the appropriate weapon.

Hmm....maybe the earlier idea in this thread of grouping fighters into squadrons isn't so bad. That way, they're not as dangerous.

A squadron of 10 fighters might be about right.

Need to ponder.

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:

Same thing with Traveller. When people refer to the LBBs, I naturally assume they're talking about 2nd edition. Heck, not that many people realize there was a 1st edition.

OTOH, some of us spent twenty years not realizing there was a second edition, until a chance comparison with certain pages of the reprints...

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:

Same thing with Traveller. When people refer to the LBBs, I naturally assume they're talking about 2nd edition. Heck, not that many people realize there was a 1st edition.

OTOH, some of us spent twenty years not realizing there was a second edition, until a chance comparison with certain pages of the reprints...

 

[DonM]

Just a plug for the CT-Starships list on yahoo... It's a place for HG fans (and a few book2 folks) to discuss things, and our signal to noise ratio stays fairly high...

And yes, HG2 is not kind to fighters. There are some optional rules in a JTAS issue that add some ideas you might want to look into. And peruse the CT-Starships list

 

[DonM]

Just a plug for the CT-Starships list on yahoo... It's a place for HG fans (and a few book2 folks) to discuss things, and our signal to noise ratio stays fairly high...

And yes, HG2 is not kind to fighters. There are some optional rules in a JTAS issue that add some ideas you might want to look into. And peruse the CT-Starships list

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
It seems to me that fighters can be considered "flexible" batteries that a player can regroup each turn.

For example, let's say you have 80 fighters. Each fighter has two beam lasers and a sandcaster.

During the Battle Formation Step, the player decides to use each of his 80 fighters as a single vessel. Defensively, this isn't a bad choice because it gives the enemy a bunch of targets to shoot at. Now, a fighter will probably be destroyed when hit by the enemy, but losses will be kept to a minimum because the targets are so dispersed.

Offensively, this isn't a good play at all. Each fighter would have a Laser USP factor of 2, making it the second worst hitting laser on the chart.

Now, round two, the same player decides to re-group his fighters, this time as five individual groups of 15, and one group of 5. Each group acts as a separate "ship".

The five groups of 15 would each have a laser USP of 8, while the group of 5 has a laser USP of 5.


Wouldn't something like that work?

I'd say make the ability of fighters to regroup, how large and maybe how often dependent on average pilot skill. maybe that's why the Imperium trains these guys so hard. Your skill-1 jockeys are on patrol; it's your skill-4 hotshots that can form and reform these devastating formations.

You could also add in a command and control ship (Raptor anyone) that allows this, maybe acts as an effecitve skill increaser.

Now forth ineveitable BSG or SW comaprison, it seems both the Colonials and Rebels like high skill pilots, whilst the Cylons and Empire go for numbers and lower skill pilots. At least that's my 2 credit view.

P.S> Fighters don't suck at lower TL. IIRC the TL break is at about TL12. Now if you consider BSG and SW TL11 settings, then fighters are a good choice. They also get much more effective if you let plasma/fusion come in at lower TL relative to computers.

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
It seems to me that fighters can be considered "flexible" batteries that a player can regroup each turn.

For example, let's say you have 80 fighters. Each fighter has two beam lasers and a sandcaster.

During the Battle Formation Step, the player decides to use each of his 80 fighters as a single vessel. Defensively, this isn't a bad choice because it gives the enemy a bunch of targets to shoot at. Now, a fighter will probably be destroyed when hit by the enemy, but losses will be kept to a minimum because the targets are so dispersed.

Offensively, this isn't a good play at all. Each fighter would have a Laser USP factor of 2, making it the second worst hitting laser on the chart.

Now, round two, the same player decides to re-group his fighters, this time as five individual groups of 15, and one group of 5. Each group acts as a separate "ship".

The five groups of 15 would each have a laser USP of 8, while the group of 5 has a laser USP of 5.


Wouldn't something like that work?

I'd say make the ability of fighters to regroup, how large and maybe how often dependent on average pilot skill. maybe that's why the Imperium trains these guys so hard. Your skill-1 jockeys are on patrol; it's your skill-4 hotshots that can form and reform these devastating formations.

You could also add in a command and control ship (Raptor anyone) that allows this, maybe acts as an effecitve skill increaser.

Now forth ineveitable BSG or SW comaprison, it seems both the Colonials and Rebels like high skill pilots, whilst the Cylons and Empire go for numbers and lower skill pilots. At least that's my 2 credit view.

P.S> Fighters don't suck at lower TL. IIRC the TL break is at about TL12. Now if you consider BSG and SW TL11 settings, then fighters are a good choice. They also get much more effective if you let plasma/fusion come in at lower TL relative to computers.

 

[Supplement Four]

Looks like the answer to fighters in High Guard is given in JTAS 14.

They can be used in five ways: Frontline Duty, Missile Screen, Close Attack, Reserve Screen, or Flexible Force.

The article also covers Crew Casualties, Powering Down, and Evacuation.

 

[Supplement Four]

Looks like the answer to fighters in High Guard is given in JTAS 14.

They can be used in five ways: Frontline Duty, Missile Screen, Close Attack, Reserve Screen, or Flexible Force.

The article also covers Crew Casualties, Powering Down, and Evacuation.