Stan Shinn
SOC-10
In Classic Traveller, say a 777777 UPP character takes 3 wounds, and is at 477777. The encounter ends and the character never went unconscious (never hit zero). Are they back up to 777777 after the encounter?
Recovery for Non-Unconscious Characters in CT
- Thread starter Stan Shinn
- Start date
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
He took 3 wounds, for a total of 3 points of damage. Wow! Bad rolling! Each die roll resulted in a one!
MINOR WOUND
The character in your example took a Minor Wound. A Minor Wound is any damage to a character just shy of two physical stats at zero.
So, if your 777777 character takes 1 point of damage, so that he is 677777, he has a Minor Wound. If he takes damage so that his stats are this: 011777, then he still has a Minor Wound (and he's also unconscious for 10 minutes).
Note that being laid unconscious is not another wound category. A character can have a Minor Wound from taking damage, and if he takes enough damage to render one physical stat at zero (no more than one stat), then he has a Minor Wound and is unconscious also.
HEALING A MINOR WOUND
There are two ways to heal a Minor Wound.
Natural Healing* - Minor Wounds heal after three days of rest. Thus, the character example of yours that is reduced to 477777 will stay that way for 3 days, and at the end of 3 days of rest, he'll be returned to stats 777777.
Medical Healing - No throw is required, but the character with a Minor Wound who is looked after by a character with Medical-1 skill (expertise) and a medkit (proper equipment**) for 30 minutes (time required to treat wounds and for treatment to take effect) will be completely healed. Thus, if a medic and proper equipment are available, then a character with a Minor Wound is completely healed in half an hour.
INTERPOLATION
Interpolation is often used by the Ref in Classic Traveller. You'll see it mentioned in Book 0, in Book 6 when looking at star system data, and in Loren K. Wiseman's Management Letter in JTAS #2 (I think it's the second issue) where Loren explains how to make a Laser Pistol from the information already provided in the game.
Interpolation is basically the application of common sense. Thus--
*Natural Healing - it would be logical to restore a third of a character's damaged stats from a Minor Wound per day instead of doing it all in one big leap on the third day. Thus, the character in your example who is damaged to 477777 would be at 577777 after one day of rest, 677777 after two days of rest, and at full 777777 after his third day of rest.
**Medical Kit - Obviously it makes sense that a ship's sickbay or a hospital or an ambulance would also provide the equipment needed for a Medical--1 character to treat Minor Wounds.
THERE ARE ONLY TWO TYPES OF WOUNDS
In Classic Traveller, there are only two types of wounds: Minor Wounds and Serious Wounds.
Minor Wounds are any damage the character takes up to and including one stat at zero. If one physical stat goes to zero, then the character has a Minor Wound and is also unconscious***.
Serious Wounds are any damage where the character has at least two physical stats at zero but is still alive (death happens at three physical stats at zero).
Minor Wounds are, well, minor. Small cuts, nicks, bruises, abrasions...things like that. These are all things that can be healed quickly after cleaned up and attended to by a character with proper equipment and at least Medic-1 skill. Or, Minor Wounds will heal all by themselves if the character rests for three days.
Serious Wounds are...serious. Broken bones, gunshot wounds, deep cuts...these are all serious wounds. These wounds require longer healing times and medical supervision in a medical facility, like the sick bay of a ship or in a hospital.
***UNCONSCIOUS
Whenever a character is rendered unconscious, think of the character as stunned, immobile, and unable to act. By interpretation, he need not always be knocked completely unconscious. Maybe he can speak a bit--maybe not. He may be moving a little, or he may be completely knocked out. Again, this is interpolation and common sense. The character is rendered ineffective and unable to act in combat. Maybe he's quite conscious but can't move due to the injury. The effect will last about 10 minutes (usually meaning that the character is no longer a factor in the combat).
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
This is a gap in the rules. You have opened the floodgates to IMTU resolution.
Taking a look at what happens to a character who does have one characteristic reduced to zero, they can be fully healed by a medikit and a medic-1, or by three days of rest.
So IMHO if you have no stats reduced to zero then basic medical treatment with a medkit (unskilled ok) or a few hours of rest is enough to return to full stats.
A short rest in 5e D&D terms
Taking a look at what happens to a character who does have one characteristic reduced to zero, they can be fully healed by a medikit and a medic-1, or by three days of rest.
So IMHO if you have no stats reduced to zero then basic medical treatment with a medkit (unskilled ok) or a few hours of rest is enough to return to full stats.
A short rest in 5e D&D terms
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
S4 is incorrect :CoW:
You only suffer from a minor wound if you have one stat reduced to zero.
:CoW:You only suffer from a minor wound if you have one stat reduced to zero.
If no stats are reduced to zero there are no rules to cover it.
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I realize that it is not CT, but in T4 that was defined as a superficial wound. And the wound-system and recovery are similar.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I get to correct you this time, Sigg!
Traveller Book, page 47: Any wound points applied to a character which do not reduce more than one physical characteristic to zero are considered minor wounds.
This includes wounds where no stats are reduced to zero.
There are two types of wound categories in Classic Traveller: Minor Wound or Serious Wound.
A Minor Wound is any damage that doesn't take two physical stats to zero.
A Serious Wound is damage that does take two physical stats to zero.
Unconsicous--
A character with a Minor Wound that also has one stat reduced to zero is also considered unconscious (a Minor Wound where no stat is at zero is just a Minor Wound with the character conscious).
A character with a Serious Wound is automatically rendered unconscious.
Thus, with a Minor Wound, a character is unconscious only if one physical stat is at zero. With a Serious Wound, unconsciousness is automatic.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
To make it easy, here are the CT definitions...
Damage with no stat at zero = Minor Wound
Damage with one stat at zero = Minor Wound and Unconscious for 10 minutes.
Damage with two stats at zero = Serious Wound and Unconscious for 3 hours.
Damage with three stats at zero = Dead.
Damage with no stat at zero = Minor Wound
Damage with one stat at zero = Minor Wound and Unconscious for 10 minutes.
Damage with two stats at zero = Serious Wound and Unconscious for 3 hours.
Damage with three stats at zero = Dead.
Wait -- this is in the unpublished CT errata, as I haven't reformatted it to put in there...
Marc-approved and all... I present "A Partial Response to Questions After Combat"
After a combat
1. If character has no physical characteristic reduced to zero, all wounded characteristics are placed midway between wounded and full levels, rounding fractions down; go to 2. If any physical characteristic is reduced to zero, go to 3.
2. If someone with Medical-1+ skill and medical kit available, go to 5; if not, go to 6.
3. If character has one physical characteristic reduced to zero, go to 4; if more than one physical characteristic is reduced to zero, go to 7.
4. Character regains consciousness in 10 minutes; once conscious, all wounded characteristics are placed midway between wounded and full levels, rounding fractions down. If someone with Medical-1+ skill and medical kit available, go to 5; if not, go to 6.
5. Complete recovery takes 30 minutes; until recovered, character is treated as having the midway characteristics.
6. Complete recovery requires 3 days rest; until recovered, character is treated as having the midway characteristics.
7. If character has two physical characteristics reduced to zero, go to 8. If all three physical characteristics are reduced to zero, go to 11.
8. Character regains consciousness in 3 hours. Once conscious, any wounded characteristics remain at the wounded level (or at 1, whichever is higher). If someone with Medical-3+ skill and medical facilities available, go to 9; if not, go to 10.
9. Complete recovery requires 5d6 days in medical facility; until recovered, character is treated as having the wounded characteristics.
10. No recovery possible until facilities and skill are available; until then, character is treated as having the wounded characteristics.
11. If character has three physical characteristics reduced to zero, character is dead.
Now, since I obviously do need to get this in the CT errata, any thing Marc and I didn't cover?
Marc-approved and all... I present "A Partial Response to Questions After Combat"
After a combat
1. If character has no physical characteristic reduced to zero, all wounded characteristics are placed midway between wounded and full levels, rounding fractions down; go to 2. If any physical characteristic is reduced to zero, go to 3.
2. If someone with Medical-1+ skill and medical kit available, go to 5; if not, go to 6.
3. If character has one physical characteristic reduced to zero, go to 4; if more than one physical characteristic is reduced to zero, go to 7.
4. Character regains consciousness in 10 minutes; once conscious, all wounded characteristics are placed midway between wounded and full levels, rounding fractions down. If someone with Medical-1+ skill and medical kit available, go to 5; if not, go to 6.
5. Complete recovery takes 30 minutes; until recovered, character is treated as having the midway characteristics.
6. Complete recovery requires 3 days rest; until recovered, character is treated as having the midway characteristics.
7. If character has two physical characteristics reduced to zero, go to 8. If all three physical characteristics are reduced to zero, go to 11.
8. Character regains consciousness in 3 hours. Once conscious, any wounded characteristics remain at the wounded level (or at 1, whichever is higher). If someone with Medical-3+ skill and medical facilities available, go to 9; if not, go to 10.
9. Complete recovery requires 5d6 days in medical facility; until recovered, character is treated as having the wounded characteristics.
10. No recovery possible until facilities and skill are available; until then, character is treated as having the wounded characteristics.
11. If character has three physical characteristics reduced to zero, character is dead.
Now, since I obviously do need to get this in the CT errata, any thing Marc and I didn't cover?
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
This makes sense, because when a character with a Minor Wound (according to the Traveller Book) is also knocked unconscious, his stats are raised to the mid-way point when he regains consciousness.
What this errata rule is doing is allowing for that same point gain without the requirement of being knocked unconscious.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
You are inferring stuff that isn't in the rules as written.
Damage with no stat reduced to zero has no definition under the rules as written
Damage that reduces one stat to zero causes a minor wound.
Damage that reduces two stats to zero is a serious wound.
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The exact quote:
Like I said - there are no rules covering no stats reduced to zero; until you apply a bit of common sense or adapt the T4 rule.
The key bit here is do not reduce more than one characteristic, which is explained in the text on wounding to mean at least one characteristic. i agree it can be interpreted the way you are doing from the p47 summary, but the text in the combat chapter explicitly states that to be suffering a minor wound you have to have had one stat reduced to zero.
Like I said - there are no rules covering no stats reduced to zero; until you apply a bit of common sense or adapt the T4 rule.
That's how I played it, too.
A reasonable interpretation as well.
... and that settles that.
S4 had it right.
Wounds less than unconscious are still minor wounds.
In my defense, The Traveller Book, pg 47
is somewhat misleading.
The temporary reduction is for more than just "the duration of combat" ... half of the reduction is until "recovery" (up to 3 days).
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Here, I'll do a quick test for you to check all situations.
SITUATION ONE: PC takes Minor Wound, no physical stat at zero.
Character: 777777 reduced to 177777
After a combat
1. If character has no physical characteristic reduced to zero, all wounded characteristics are placed midway between wounded and full levels, rounding fractions down; go to 2. If any physical characteristic is reduced to zero, go to 3.
Character: 477777
MEDICAL TREATMENT (Medic-1 + Medkit)
5. Complete recovery takes 30 minutes; until recovered, character is treated as having the midway characteristics.
Character: restored to 777777 after 30 min and treatment (character remains 477777 until treatment time is up).
NATURAL HEALING
Character: 477777
6. Complete recovery requires 3 days rest; until recovered, character is treated as having the midway characteristics.
Character: 477777 for three days, then fully healed at 777777 after the third day of rest.
SITUATION TWO: PC takes Minor Wound with one physical stat at zero.
Character: 777777 reduced to 017777
After a combat
1. If character has no physical characteristic reduced to zero, all wounded characteristics are placed midway between wounded and full levels, rounding fractions down; go to 2. If any physical characteristic is reduced to zero, go to 3.
3. If character has one physical characteristic reduced to zero, go to 4; if more than one physical characteristic is reduced to zero, go to 7.
4. Character regains consciousness in 10 minutes; once conscious, all wounded characteristics are placed midway between wounded and full levels, rounding fractions down. If someone with Medical-1+ skill and medical kit available, go to 5; if not, go to 6.
Character is unconscious for 10 minutes with stats at 017777. After 10 min., the character regains consciousness with stats at 457777.
MEDICAL TREATMENT (Medic-1 + Medkit)
5. Complete recovery takes 30 minutes; until recovered, character is treated as having the midway characteristics.
Character: restored to 777777 after 30 min and treatment (character remains 457777 until treatment time is up).
NATURAL HEALING
Character: 457777
6. Complete recovery requires 3 days rest; until recovered, character is treated as having the midway characteristics.
Character: 457777 for three days, then fully healed at 777777 after the third day of rest.
SITUATION THREE: PC takes Serious Wound with two physical stats at zero.
Character: 777777 reduced to 001777
After a combat
1. If character has no physical characteristic reduced to zero, all wounded characteristics are placed midway between wounded and full levels, rounding fractions down; go to 2. If any physical characteristic is reduced to zero, go to 3.
3. If character has one physical characteristic reduced to zero, go to 4; if more than one physical characteristic is reduced to zero, go to 7.
7. If character has two physical characteristics reduced to zero, go to 8. If all three physical characteristics are reduced to zero, go to 11.
8. Character regains consciousness in 3 hours. Once conscious, any wounded characteristics remain at the wounded level (or at 1, whichever is higher). If someone with Medical-3+ skill and medical facilities available, go to 9; if not, go to 10.
Character remains at 001777 and unconscious for 3 hours. After that time, the character regains consciousness, and stats are raised to 111777.
MEDICAL TREATMENT (Medic-3 + Medical Facility)
9. Complete recovery requires 5d6 days in medical facility; until recovered, character is treated as having the wounded characteristics.
Character remains at 111777 for 5d6 days. Character is fully healed after the time, 777777.
NATURAL HEALING
10. No recovery possible until facilities and skill are available; until then, character is treated as having the wounded characteristics.
Character remains at 111777 until medical help is found.
Looks good. This is exactly what is in the Traveller Book with the one exception that Minor Wounds are raised to their half-way point after combat before the character is completely healed.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
No, I'm not. Don's errata supports what I said. The only real change that Don's errata changes is that Minor Wounds are raised to their halfway point whether the character was unconscious or not. That wasn't spelled out in the original CT rules. Only characters with Minor Wounds, who are also knocked unconscious, are said to have their wounded stats raised to the halfway point in the Traveller Book.
The new Minor Wound errata makes a lot of sense, too.
The Traveller Book is pretty clear to me. Page 47 of the Traveller Books says (again): Any wound points applied to a character which do not reduce more than one physical characteristic to zero are considered minor wounds.
Does that mean that a character 777777 reduced to 577777 has a Minor Wound?
Yes, because that 2 points of damage did not reduce the character to "more than one physical characteristic to zero."
The same character, 777777, reduced to 101777 still has a Minor Wound (and is also knocked unconscious). Why? Because the damage did not reduce the character's physical stats so that more than one physical stat was at zero.
In other words: ANY damage that does not reduce two of a character's physical stats to zero is a Minor Wound.
ANY damage that reduces two of a character's physical stats to zero is a Serious Wound.
In still other words: ANY damage is considered a Minor Wound unless two stats are reduced to zero, at which point the damage is considered a Serious Wound.
The break-point between Minor Wound and Serious Wound is the character having two stats at zero.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
The Traveller Book uses the term "recovery" to mean "completely healed".
As for the "duration of combat" bit, wounds do stay at their wounded levels. If you have a Minor Wound with no stat at zero, your stats will remain at their damaged levels* until after the combat (when you seek medical attention or rest for 3 days).
*The new errata restores Minor Wound damage to the half-way point after combat.
If you have a Minor Wound and are knocked unconscious (one stat at zero), then you'll be unconscious for 10 minutes--which is very probably after the combat, unless you combat last more than 40 rounds!
o:And, if you take a Serious Wound, then you are automatically unconscious for 3 hours, which will certainly take you out of the combat.
It seems complicated to some (I am seeing), but there are only two wound categories in Classic Traveller (Minor Wound or Serious Wound), and there are three wound states:
Minor Wound - Any damage that does not take any physical stats to zero.
Minor Wound and Unconscious - Damage that takes only one physical stat to zero.
Serious Wound - Damage where at least two physical stats are at zero (unconsciousness is automatic).
Are suggestions for expanding rules legitimate? If so, I suggest adding S4's rules for 'partial recovery with time' as an optional rule. I can quite see, and sympathize with, a desire for keeping things simple. But some people value verisimilitude more than they value simplicity, and the mechanic of one third recovered after one day and another third more recovered after another day deserves to be an option.
Hans
A simpler view, which I intend to keep for IMTU is three wound categories/states:
Unwounded - Any damage that does not take any physical stats to zero - recovery is immediate after combat without medical attention (Shake it off son, you are fine.)
Minor Wound with Unconscious - Damage that takes only one physical stat to zero. (This shot will fix you right up, just give it 30 minutes to work.)
Serious Wound with Unconscious - Damage where at least two physical stats are at zero. (Get this man to a hospital if you want him to live.)
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The rules as written in the core text in every edition of CT state that a minor wound is only for one characteristic reduced to zero.
The summary text on p47 of TTB is where the error lies, it is poorly worded and open to interpretation.
S4 has interpreted one way, but the body of the text does not support it.
I agree that there should be a category for a character who is hit but no characteristic is reduced to zero:
e.g. 777 reduced to 111 you have taken eighteen points of damage, and yet half an hour later you can be 444 and after treatment or sufficient rest back to 777 (I am going to repeat that I really like the 5e D&D short rest idea here, an hour max)
I call this state superficially wounded too.
777 takes eight points of damage and is reduced to 077 due to the first blood rule, after combat 377 but is suffering a minor wound that requires a higher degree of medical treatment or three days rest.
The summary text on p47 of TTB is where the error lies, it is poorly worded and open to interpretation.
S4 has interpreted one way, but the body of the text does not support it.
I agree that there should be a category for a character who is hit but no characteristic is reduced to zero:
e.g. 777 reduced to 111 you have taken eighteen points of damage, and yet half an hour later you can be 444 and after treatment or sufficient rest back to 777 (I am going to repeat that I really like the 5e D&D short rest idea here, an hour max)
I call this state superficially wounded too.
777 takes eight points of damage and is reduced to 077 due to the first blood rule, after combat 377 but is suffering a minor wound that requires a higher degree of medical treatment or three days rest.
Wow, but my brain... my brain!!! All those "go to" statements break my brain.
ZERO or ONE PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTIC AT ZERO
1. If one characteristic at zero, character is unconscious, and regains consciousness in 10 minutes.
2. Once conscious, all wounded characteristics are placed midway between wounded and full levels, rounding fractions down.
3. Characteristics are restored only after 3 days rest, OR after 30 minutes if someone with Medical-1+ skill and medical kit is available.
TWO PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS AT ZERO
1. Character regains consciousness in 3 hours.
2. Once conscious, any wounded characteristics remain at the wounded level (or at 1, whichever is higher).
3. Characteristics are restored only after 5d6 days in medical facility, once Medical-3+ skill and medical facility become available.
THREE PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS AT ZERO
1. Character is dead.
2. Go thru pockets for loose change.
3. Roll up new character.
No, it doesn't say one way or the other. You yourself said that having characteristics reduced but none of them to zero wasn't undefined.
And so a clarification is required. Which Don has just given us.
Is there any reason why the clarification doesn't work? In a game technical sense, I mean, not just because it's not how you've been doing it all along?
Hans
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