CT Only: Ref's and Players and GUNS!

[Supplement Four]

Here, I'm just thinking out loud as a CT Ref.

I've always balked a bit at the ease of which I've allowed PCs to get their hands on serious weaponry in a Traveller game. Players find a world that is the Traveller equivalent to Beirut in the 1980's or Mogadishu in the 1990's, and they get what they want.

And, this is fine if you want your tramp freighter crew to be like Firefly.

"Let's be heroes!"





But..as Ref, I was thinking of ways I could limit this in the game. I'm attracted to the PCs using shotguns and standard autopistols instead of ACRs and hand grenades. Cloth armor instead of Combat Armor.

For me, it just boils down to knowing the worlds in my subsector (developing them with personalities, the people having a culture, and seeing what the stats have to say about the place).

What do you need for a Traveller Beirut or Mogadishu? A place where you can just walk down the main street and hit the vendors selling heavy weapons, open air, on tables along the side of the road?

You need a high population.

You need low or no law level.

You need the right government.

You need some political turmoil (to attract the black market arms dealers).



And, I'm thinking....I'll need a barrier to getting to that place. Maybe it's far away in the subsector from where the campaign starts.

Maybe the system in interdicted.

Maybe whomever is at war with the world, if the conflict stretches between stars, has blockaded the world.

Or, maybe the No Law aspect also reaches to the system, and Corsairs or Pirates are known to prey heavily on that system.



And, even if all that is in the game...I think the journey to, and obtaining the weapons, should be an adventure--not just a quick stop.

In the mean time, the players are using what they mustered out with--that old TL 6 single action rifle the character mustered out with 30 years ago. Or, the shotgun the character purchased the first chance he got after the campaign started.





Oh...and if the PC do get their dream Merc weapons anyway (if they figure it out in the game, I give it to 'em...I'm that type of Ref. Anything's possible.), those suckers can be confiscated if pulled out and used in the wrong place.

 

[Condottiere]

It's not how quick and streamlined your weapon is, it's how you use it and the attachments on the picatinny rails.

 

[Whipsnade]

Caveat emptor has always been my guide in these situations.

You can stroll the bazaars of Nueva Beirut shopping for the 57th Century version of AK-47s, Stingers, RPG-7s, C4, Claymores, and the like but you're not going to be able to complain to the Better Business Bureau when the guns don't have firing pins, the missiles fizzle, grenades aren't propelled, the explosives turn out to be Silly Putty, and the mines are marked backwards.

A certain scene near a Paris bridge in 1998's Ronin also mirrored my thinking on the subject.

 

[Spinward Scout]

What do you need for a Traveller Beirut or Mogadishu? A place where you can just walk down the main street and hit the vendors selling heavy weapons, open air, on tables along the side of the road?

You need a high population.

You need low or no law level.

You need the right government.

You need some political turmoil (to attract the black market arms dealers).

You do need the right 'environment', but I don't think it needs to be HiPop or LoLaw. And the government... Well, anything on the black market is essentially bypassing the government. No permits.

As for political turmoil, the turmoil doesn't have to be 'on world' so to speak, it just has to be publicized. Even several parsecs away they might hear about the War on Whatever World. A nearby world could have what's needed for the 'turmoil'.

 

[mike wightman]

What happens to the player characters' military grade weapons when they arrive at a higher law level world?
Do they have the correct paperwork to avoid having the lot confiscated?
Could they be arrested for contravening local laws on weapons?

 

[welsh]

You do need the right 'environment', but I don't think it needs to be HiPop or LoLaw.

It probably does, at least for legitimate sales.

It needs to be low law for a player party to be able to legally buy advanced weapons. And unless that world has a relatively high population (or sees a lot of trade passing through), there won't be enough demand to keep a dealer going. Market reality is, you can much more easily find a socket wrench than a fighting knife, because ordinary people use socket wrenches in everyday life.

... anything on the black market is essentially bypassing the government.

The black market is difficult for players to access, as outsiders. The more restrictive the laws, the greater the tendency of the black market to trade only within trusted networks. Open black markets exist only where law enforcement efforts are corrupt or ineffective.

A nearby world could have what's needed for the 'turmoil'.

Something to bear in mind is that mercenaries, the people driving much of that turmoil, don't buy guns at Bob's Gun Emporium.

Your licensed mercenary outfit (Pinkerton's Interstellar) maintains an administrative office on a low-law world. It buys arms from manufacturers and has them shipped to its offices.

This same approach can hold true even for rebellions the mercenaries are brought in to put down: they get their guns in bulk.

It's attractive to think of worlds that function as arms bazaars (and such worlds may occasionally exist), but I think this is much less common than a lot of players imagine.

What happens to the player characters' military grade weapons when they arrive at a higher law level world?
Do they have the correct paperwork to avoid having the lot confiscated?
Could they be arrested for contravening local laws on weapons?

Can they keep their weapons outside the extrality line?

If not, every world visit is preceded by an exciting, three-month game of Permit Applications in Space.

 

[Condottiere]

You don't want to get caught holding illegal weaponry, and if you do use them, you don't want them to be traced back to you.

Easily break down weapons, whose individual components wouldn't raise red flags.

 

[kilemall]

The guys are onto a good thing there.

Conversely buying from a 'reputable' dealer might be an exercise in just finding and contacting them, and paying more then base price, Neuva Beirut being a dangerous place and thus incurring overhead for sellers and players just to be there.

Losing a gunfight may involve equipment losses.

I have a very clever mechanism whereby players can tote guns across starports, but they have to register and effectively be deputized, subject to call out for security problems if something happens and a good deal of tracking and surveillance for their every move.

Much MORE attention paid of course to top end equipment operators.

You can just as easily define that all starports have a law level of say 2-3- virtually impossible to bribe, but reduction of mayhem to rifle/pistol level.

That would make getting arms out on the planet for serious crime troublesome, may have to be provided with local arms for the job/ticket, and that could be an issue too.

As to excessive armor, you could attrit them through combat damage, ultimately losing capability and needing replacement. Then, the market kicks in and they are tough to come by.

IMTU Reflec is less supermirrored laser bounce and more heat insulation. As such reflec suits are fairly easy to obtain- as material worker/firefighter gear worn over clothes. Tends to stand out to say you are a troublesome merc when worn outside a foundry/fire and degrades like Ablat against normal arms.

The standard under clothes/armor version is closely guarded as both LE and armed forces want to maintain lasers as a viable arm and advantage. It will cost time and effort for my players to obtain some, probably by shady means if they do not play in merc circles with official support, and will generate massive interest if an LE finds a player with a suit on.

Combat armor should be very difficult for civilian crew to come by.

Another thought, the more desirable and advanced armor suits are as or more costly then the weapons, criminals would be motivated to steal player armor- and rebels/terrorists would highly prize them.

 

[kilemall]

What happens to the player characters' military grade weapons when they arrive at a higher law level world?
Do they have the correct paperwork to avoid having the lot confiscated?
Could they be arrested for contravening local laws on weapons?

No matter the environment, OTU/ATU/MTU, I would treat the weapons as inviolate as long as they stay on the ship (these are environments with civ ships having lasers and missiles after all), the starports have a standard LL which may be lower or higher then the planet, and the starport authority likely confiscates and fines you if you try to move arms into a higher law level planet.

If you get past the starport but the planet catches you, then it would be planetary law that punishes you, in most TUs IMO.

 

[Whipsnade]

No matter the environment, OTU/ATU/MTU, I would treat the weapons as inviolate as long as they stay on the ship...

"What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas..." has always been the rule of thumb IMTU also. However, it's a rule of thumb and not a regulation or law.

As with so many other things, the Imperium, in the person of the SPA, reserves the right to take any action when it deems such action necessary. Open carry a Glock while out buying gum at the port's Kwik-E-Mart? No problem. Wear battledress and carry a FGMP-15 while doing the same? Let's talk. Rollerblade around carrying a block of C4 or canister of Space Ebola connected to a dead man's switch? Don't complain when we put you down like a rabid dog.

Reserving the Imperium's right to take action means the players cannot "game" the game by exploiting unforeseen loopholes in something a vague as a single digit meant to model an entire planet's entire legal code and justice system.

How did this common sense/"It depends..." system work in practice? Let me spin a few examples from my games.

Case #1 - Players carry an entirely legal lot of freight to a backwater world; 10 dTons of ACRs, ammo, and RAM grenades. All the licenses are in order and the lot is accompanied by a representative of it's owner. When the players' ship lands at it's destination the other shoe drops.

The planet is on the edge of a multiparty civil war. Just who the arms are meant for - this side, that side, someone who wants to sell to all sides - isn't clear and doesn't really matter. The fact that arms have arrived and are on the players' ship becomes general knowledge in about 1.9 nanoseconds.

The Class C port is Imperial territory, but that really doesn't matter either because all the local factions believe they can cut a deal after they win. Port security is a chain link fence, a couple shifts of local "Wackenhuts", and a squad of Marines assigned to the Port Warden. Sooner than later, a lot of people are going to enter the port to get those guns.

The Imperium in the person of the Port Warden tells the players "You're taking off NOW. You can stay in orbit 'cause the locals can't get to you there, but you're taking off NOW." The players can't bleat about the cargo being legal, they can't whine about there needing to be a court order, they can't kvetch about the port being Imperial territory and thus inviolate, they can't "game" the game.

They're taking off NOW or the Warden's Marines will frog march them off their ship and someone else will take it into orbit.

Case #2 - They players and their ship are in another sleepy port doing the usual things; waiting for freight deliveries, making repairs, working the street, buying supplies, etc. Two ships belonging to local shipping line are berthed nearby. A far trader lands and moves to it's assigned berth.

As soon as the far trader settles, it's center hatch opens and two grav APCs fly out. Each puts a fusion Y gun round into the bridges of the local line's grounded ships. The APCs land alongside the ships, armed squads debark, breaching charges "open" airlocks, and the squads storm aboard. A few other hatches on the ships open as a few other people run away. In less than 10 minutes, the armed squads leave the ships, board the APCs, and those APCs fly back to the far trader. While the APCs are still in the air, explosions rock the ships they've just left. The APCs fly aboard the far trader and it begins to lift to orbit.

During the quarter hour the raid took place, the far trader has been "spamming" the port's comm system and airwaves with statements to the effect that a trade war operation is underway and no one other than the targets will be injured.

Many months later, the players land at a big port on a major world. In the berth next door is the far trader from the raid. The players nearly soil themselves. They lock down their ship, "man" the turrets, and open the arms locker while one of them sneaks away to inform the authorities.

As the player tells their story to the administrator, they're stopped and told:

"We already know all about that. It was a trade war operation. Nasty, but legal enough because whoever launched it has enough political cover. Don't worry about the ship though. We searched her orbit before allowing her to land. They're listed on a SPA circular too, orbital searches when practical, denied landing rights when not. Believe me, they'll be on that list for a while..."

It always depends because, at it's heart, it's a rule of men and not laws.

YMMV.

 

[kilemall]

"What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas..." has always been the rule of thumb IMTU also. However, it's a rule of thumb and not a regulation or law.

As with so many other things, the Imperium, in the person of the SPA, reserves the right to take any action when it deems such action necessary. Open carry a Glock while out buying gum at the port's Kwik-E-Mart? No problem. Wear battledress and carry a FGMP-15 while doing the same? Let's talk. Rollerblade around carrying a block of C4 or canister of Space Ebola connected to a dead man's switch? Don't complain when we put you down like a rabid dog.

Reserving the Imperium's right to take action means the players cannot "game" the game by exploiting unforeseen loopholes in something a vague as a single digit meant to model an entire planet's entire legal code and justice system.

How did this common sense/"It depends..." system work in practice? Let me spin a few examples from my games.

Case #1 - Players carry an entirely legal lot of freight to a backwater world; 10 dTons of ACRs, ammo, and RAM grenades. All the licenses are in order and the lot is accompanied by a representative of it's owner. When the players' ship lands at it's destination the other shoe drops.

The planet is on the edge of a multiparty civil war. Just who the arms are meant for - this side, that side, someone who wants to sell to all sides - isn't clear and doesn't really matter. The fact that arms have arrived and are on the players' ship becomes general knowledge in about 1.9 nanoseconds.

The Class C port is Imperial territory, but that really doesn't matter either because all the local factions believe they can cut a deal after they win. Port security is a chain link fence, a couple shifts of local "Wackenhuts", and a squad of Marines assigned to the Port Warden. Sooner than later, a lot of people are going to enter the port to get those guns.

The Imperium in the person of the Port Warden tells the players "You're taking off NOW. You can stay in orbit 'cause the locals can't get to you there, but you're taking off NOW." The players can't bleat about the cargo being legal, they can't whine about there needing to be a court order, they can't kvetch about the port being Imperial territory and thus inviolate, they can't "game" the game.

They're taking off NOW or the Warden's Marines will frog march them off their ship and someone else will take it into orbit.

Case #2 - They players and their ship are in another sleepy port doing the usual things; waiting for freight deliveries, making repairs, working the street, buying supplies, etc. Two ships belonging to local shipping line are berthed nearby. A far trader lands and moves to it's assigned berth.

As soon as the far trader settles, it's center hatch opens and two grav APCs fly out. Each puts a fusion Y gun round into the bridges of the local line's grounded ships. The APCs land alongside the ships, armed squads debark, breaching charges "open" airlocks, and the squads storm aboard. A few other hatches on the ships open as a few other people run away. In less than 10 minutes, the armed squads leave the ships, board the APCs, and those APCs fly back to the far trader. While the APCs are still in the air, explosions rock the ships they've just left. The APCs fly aboard the far trader and it begins to lift to orbit.

During the quarter hour the raid took place, the far trader has been "spamming" the port's comm system and airwaves with statements to the effect that a trade war operation is underway and no one other than the targets will be injured.

Many months later, the players land at a big port on a major world. In the berth next door is the far trader from the raid. The players nearly soil themselves. They lock down their ship, "man" the turrets, and open the arms locker while one of them sneaks away to inform the authorities.

As the player tells their story to the administrator, they're stopped and told:

"We already know all about that. It was a trade war operation. Nasty, but legal enough because whoever launched it has enough political cover. Don't worry about the ship though. We searched her orbit before allowing her to land. They're listed on a SPA circular too, orbital searches when practical, denied landing rights when not. Believe me, they'll be on that list for a while..."

It always depends because, at it's heart, it's a rule of men and not laws.

YMMV.

In the laissez-faire space noir 'who said the stars are fair' Traveller most of us prefer, those are good scenarios and a cogent argument for staying away from trying to make LE in Traveller operate like a Frank Capra movie.

 

[Whipsnade]

In the laissez-faire space noir 'who said the stars are fair' Traveller most of us prefer...

It's fair. It's just not equal.

I take my cue from those European (mostly British) colonial commissioners who with a handful of soldiers behind them ruled swaths of territory and multitudes of people through pragmatism, precedent, and protocol rather than legal codes.

... those are good scenarios and a cogent argument for staying away from trying to make LE in Traveller operate like a Frank Capra movie.

IMHO, nothing wastes Traveller's potential more than a setting which is the little more than the US/EU with jump drives.

 

[Condottiere]

Any bullet upto ten millimetres might be reasonable, using a chemical propellant.

Shotgun being the exception, when it comes to calibre.

 

[welsh]

IMHO, nothing wastes Traveller's potential more than a setting which is the little more than the US/EU with jump drives.

It's as if, as soon as they start contemplating an interstellar government, people want to apply the real world by analogy. But the whole idea is that the powers that be are distant, and that this is a society not of laws but of men.

So I think of conventions rather than laws. By convention, you can move anything through a starport, as long as it's in a box. That applies to any weapon you like. And by convention, you will not go armed within a "developed" (A,B,C) starport, though you may have all kinds of weapons in crates or cases.

But the starport warden is the law, and he may have other ideas.

And I would add to that, as far as weapons go: worlds vary, but most people are going to go around unarmed most of the time. The idea some players have, that they're going to walk down the street with guns and wearing armour....

 

[Whipsnade]

It's as if, as soon as they start contemplating an interstellar government, people want to apply the real world by analogy.

The trouble is that they don't apply a real world analogy because of their incredibly narrow perception of just what constitutes the real world.

The real world is the entire and it's entire history. Far too many simply cannot look beyond the "where" and "when" in which they live.

... but most people are going to go around unarmed most of the time.

Your preconceptions are showing. Just because Nanny State London in 2017 with 400,000+ CCTV cameras outlaws knives, it doesn't necessarily follow that knives weren't, aren't, and won't be part of daily wear elsewhere and "elsewhen".

The idea some players have, that they're going to walk down the street with guns and wearing armour....

Again, it depends on where and when.

Pacifica Park in Eden City on Arcadia-III during the Elysian Butterfly Festival? Hell, no.

Rut Zone 18G above West Burrowdwelve on Megafauna-V during the Thunder-Bunyan estrus season? Hell, yes.

Where and when.

 

[welsh]

The trouble is that they don't apply a real world analogy because of their incredibly narrow perception of just what constitutes the real world.

Absolutely. It helps enormously to be a student of history, and to travel broadly.

Your preconceptions are showing. Just because Nanny State London in 2017 ...

Not really. My remark referred to "most people" and "most of the time." This acknowledges that exceptions occur. While it's a generalization, you will be hard put to find examples in history, or anywhere in the world today, where most people go about armed most of the time.

Oh, and I live in London, ONTARIO, CANADA. I carry a knife every day. Most of my knives are prohibited in the UK. I don't think of them as weapons -- which returns to my point regarding the general case.

Whose preconceptions are showing, again?

 

[Whipsnade]

Whose preconceptions are showing, again?

Both of ours. You don't think of a knife as a weapon and I thought you were from London, England.

 

[welsh]

A knife becomes a weapon when used as such, as a baseball bat becomes a weapon when used as such. Otherwise, it's a utilitarian tool, used to open packages, cut string, and so on. It's not a matter of my preconception that a knife is a weapon; it simply isn't one. Most of the people who carry machetes day-to-day in the developing world aren't going about armed; they're carrying agricultural tools that happen to also be weapons.

Which returns to my point that most people do not go about armed most of the time. Carrying weapons is normal in some contexts, but entirely strange in others.

To return this to game terms: those players who in every random encounter announce that naturally their characters are carrying the nastiest weapon the local laws allow. Even where the local law level allows it, carrying a weapon should be seen as unusual unless something specific in the context normalizes it. So this is one of those things about the group's interactive story that needs to be defined: Law Level 2 does not mean everyone carries a shotgun.

 

[Whipsnade]

It's not a matter of my preconception that a knife is a weapon; it simply isn't one.

Re-read the descriptions for Law Levels 8 and 9.

As for machetes being farm tools, talk to the people in Rwanda.

Which returns to my point that most people do not go about armed most of the time.

Most people in your experience don't go about armed most of the time.

 

[mike wightman]

I'm sorry but this conversation reminds me of this:

Harry: Well, I dare say, but the point of the matter is that, at that moment,
round the corner, came Sir Mortimer.
Edmund: The King’s hired killer…
Harry: No, no, no. Mortimer — that tall, rather striking fellow with no ears.
Edmund: Yes, that’s him.
Harry: Well, he saw the Archbishop and rushed towards him with his head bowed,
in order to receive his blessing, and, er, unfortunately, killed him
stone dead.
Edmund: How?
Harry: Mortimer was wearing a Turkish helmet.
Edmund: Oh, I see, yes — one of those with the two feet spike coming out of
the top?
Harry: It’s one of those things they normally use for butting their enemies
in the stomach and (Edmund joins in) killing them stone dead.
Edmund: (sarcastic) Yes, so, presumably he’d forgotten he was wearing it.
Harry: Well, do you know, that’s exactly what the poor fellow had done!
A tragic accident…tragic.