Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Therefore ... LBB1-3.77 does not permit wilderness refueling and all "fuel" must be obtained from starports (as the only available source of "fuel").
Resource Scarcity in the Far Future
- Thread starter Bartleby
- Start date
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It does say you can skim gas giants for fuel, it just doesn't mention fuel scoops or as mentioned what the fuel is.
"Skimming" always seemed a strange process to me. Why not just decent to near "crush depth" for the hull and open the fuel port ... the PRESSURE of the Atmosphere will do the work of your pumps. Refrigeration will cool and liquefy the gas. [Then add the waste heat to the magic place that all other waste heat goes.]
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
I just add it to the Fusion PP. It is already as hot as the sun to induce FUSION, so what's a few more degrees K. Just make the HOT HOTTER and the COLD COLDER ... TL 9: man invents the Super Heat Pump!... the plot ...?
{ ducks and runs }
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
And breaks the laws of thermodynamics in the process, you can't move heat from cold to hot, at least not without doing a lot of work, which generate yet more heat.
To lose heat from the ship you have two choices - radiate it or heat something up and shove it off the ship.
EM radiation is one type of radiation that propagates through empty space, but we now know of another...
To lose heat from the ship you have two choices - radiate it or heat something up and shove it off the ship.
EM radiation is one type of radiation that propagates through empty space, but we now know of another...
"Again" ... Breaks the (already broken) Laws of Thermodynamics AGAIN.
I am just collecting all the eggs into one (EXISTING) basket.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
So come up with a way that doesn't - for example radiating the waste heat using gravitcs so it is lost as gravitic radiation waves.
Krikkitone
SOC-12
Which is a magic plot device (technobabbly justified, but no details on it)
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I'd rather have handwavium than... oh look over there
otherwise it is not science fiction it is science fantasy.
Gravitational waves exist, we can measure them and have a theory that explains them. What we don't have a clue about is how gravitics, jump drive, acceleration compensation or fusion power plants function.
Gravitics these days in the Traveller corpus are used to handwave artificial gravity, acceleration compensation, the various maneuver methods, it is even the technology that is being researched when Terrans discover jump - and jump appears to have some links to gravitics.
The same way a ship can generate artificial gravity, maneuver, and compensate for acceleration is the way in which the ship can radiate energy as gravitational waves/radiation and thus cool the ship.
Next problem isn't until TL11+
how to explain meson technology and then nuclear dampers...
otherwise it is not science fiction it is science fantasy.
Gravitational waves exist, we can measure them and have a theory that explains them. What we don't have a clue about is how gravitics, jump drive, acceleration compensation or fusion power plants function.
Gravitics these days in the Traveller corpus are used to handwave artificial gravity, acceleration compensation, the various maneuver methods, it is even the technology that is being researched when Terrans discover jump - and jump appears to have some links to gravitics.
The same way a ship can generate artificial gravity, maneuver, and compensate for acceleration is the way in which the ship can radiate energy as gravitational waves/radiation and thus cool the ship.
Next problem isn't until TL11+
how to explain meson technology and then nuclear dampers...
I wonder how many of the 'discussions' we have in the CotI Forum are because we are afraid to admit we don't really understand the science, physics, and natural laws of the Traveller Universe? I mean, some of the science and physics are almost like magic compared to what we know and understand. And even the naturals laws are different enough from ours that we can't help but feel a little uncomfortable and on edge. Psionics anyone?
We humans like to understand things and as soon as possible, put our knowledge in a box labeled 'totally understood' and go on to the next thing to be studied and eventually put in a box. But the Traveller Universe is different. Different enough that many things just can't be understood no matter how much we study it. It's this kind of thinking that makes me wonder if the Hivers have ever come across a race of sophents that they couldn't Manipulate, and what the response to their inability to Manipulate that race was.
On another note, I feel like the Traveller universe has an infinite amount of energy and resources in varying amounts, and the scarce resources will eventually be enough over enough time or just haven't been discovered yet. The Known Space is just a small part of the galaxy, which is just a small part of the universe. Lots of exploring to do.
We humans like to understand things and as soon as possible, put our knowledge in a box labeled 'totally understood' and go on to the next thing to be studied and eventually put in a box. But the Traveller Universe is different. Different enough that many things just can't be understood no matter how much we study it. It's this kind of thinking that makes me wonder if the Hivers have ever come across a race of sophents that they couldn't Manipulate, and what the response to their inability to Manipulate that race was.
On another note, I feel like the Traveller universe has an infinite amount of energy and resources in varying amounts, and the scarce resources will eventually be enough over enough time or just haven't been discovered yet. The Known Space is just a small part of the galaxy, which is just a small part of the universe. Lots of exploring to do.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Science - thermodynamics, quantum field theory, general relativity - if you intend to break any of those 3 then a handwave is needed as is some explanatium
Consistency - whatever your explanatium is it should be consistently applicable to the setting
Do I know how Traveller technology allows for artificial gravity, acceleration compensation, maneuver drives, null-grav modules - nope, not a clue. So I handwave gravitics and my explanatium is that the machinery for the above couples with a local gravitational field (actually the curvature of spacetime - for now) or even the gravitational wave background and can borrow the energy it needs to produce the effect that technology produces. The energy the power plant provides to the gravitcs establishes the coupling.
My proposal is that this also provides a mechanism for dumping heat back into the coupled field:
Gcq - gravitational coupling quantum number
range - the range of the effect, the Gcq 1 is effectively coupling with the mass of the ship itself
Consistency - whatever your explanatium is it should be consistently applicable to the setting
Do I know how Traveller technology allows for artificial gravity, acceleration compensation, maneuver drives, null-grav modules - nope, not a clue. So I handwave gravitics and my explanatium is that the machinery for the above couples with a local gravitational field (actually the curvature of spacetime - for now) or even the gravitational wave background and can borrow the energy it needs to produce the effect that technology produces. The energy the power plant provides to the gravitcs establishes the coupling.
My proposal is that this also provides a mechanism for dumping heat back into the coupled field:
| Gcq | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
| effect | artificial gravity/IC | lifters/null grav modules | m-drive | j-drive |
| range | ~0 (1-10m) | 10D | 1000D | 1-10 parsecs |
| heat dissipation | kW | MW | GW | TW |
range - the range of the effect, the Gcq 1 is effectively coupling with the mass of the ship itself
In 1st Ed. the Jump Drive burned its own fuel (as in the XBoat). Subsequently, the rules moved jump power generation to the power plant (in overload mode), in part to have TL affect jump drive (overall) size and cost. LBB2'81 kept the drive sizes from '77 for backwards compatibility, despite the explanation having changed.
As noted above
The original concept was that there was a fusion power plant, and the m-drive was the "exhaust nozzle" for that. (Jump drive incorporated its own power plant.) The rules did not explicitly say that, though, because at first they were thinking the rules would be useful to play in other Science Fictional universes that used different propulsion systems, and didn't want to limit the players' options. They later realized that they'd need to lock down the description to make their own material consistent (once they started releasng their own material...), and did so in HG'79 (then they changed it in HG'80 when the role-playing effects of giving even a Scout/Courier a Factor 2 Plasma Gun as its propulsion system became obvious).
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It's a Hard-ish Sci-Fi thing. "Physics as we know it" should work normally, with any/all exceptions explicitly declared, internally consistent, and usually only where necessary to make the story possible.
Otherwise, it's fantasy with chrome and blinky lights, not SF. Not that there's anything wrong with that....
I think the idea was to pick an altitude which contained the greatest proportion of H2 and ram-compress it there. Lower, high-density altitudes would have other gases in the mix to complicate matters.
"Again" ... Breaks the (already broken) Laws of Thermodynamics AGAIN.
I am just collecting all the eggs into one (EXISTING) basket.
