Hey folks, I have made a triumphant return to gaming recently. I do enjoy Pathfinder, but I was looking in to getting a second system to run for my excellent group of new gamers (my very open-minded friends). As I have the fantasy stuff down with Pathfinder, I want a good open sci-fi rpg. The first one that came to mind is Traveller (I lump Shadowrun and Mutant Future in with Science Fantasy). Again, my group is refreshingly exploratory and think very non-linear (which can make my job harder, but it makes me feel more like a player than a GM.. I like it). I notice that these forums tend to lean more toward the CT version, and I like the price point on FFE's reprints. However, I've heard quite a number of positives about Mongoose Traveller as well. Mostly that character generation is cleaned up a bit, and ship combat is not as difficult. I hear complaints that CT can seem "dated" as far as tech goes, but that doesn't bother me all that much. So what shall it be Ladies and Gents? CT or MgT for a Traveller newb?
Returning gamer wanting to give traveller a shot.
- Thread starter arslayer
- Start date
Welcome to COTI!
The question your asking is one that will get you wide and varied answers from everyone here. Sometimes conflicting ones. But here goes:
First, ask which one your players are likely to be able to find if they want copies of the rules for themselves, and go with that one.
For me, its been Mongoose Traveller (MgT) for some time now. I still use a lot of the Classic Traveller (CT) stuff as it converts really easily (you can do it on the fly) and I have it at hand, but either system is a good choice.
Again, welcome!
~Rich
The question your asking is one that will get you wide and varied answers from everyone here. Sometimes conflicting ones. But here goes:
First, ask which one your players are likely to be able to find if they want copies of the rules for themselves, and go with that one.
For me, its been Mongoose Traveller (MgT) for some time now. I still use a lot of the Classic Traveller (CT) stuff as it converts really easily (you can do it on the fly) and I have it at hand, but either system is a good choice.
Again, welcome!
~Rich
I do have a penchant for large rule books.
I might have to get all three versions! In all seriousness though, my wife (also one of the new gamers!) really supports my decision to get back into social roleplaying over my usual video game habit. It would be much easier for her to justify me spending $100 in books over $60 on one video game title. Hell, it's easier for me to justify that. I've gotten burned on a few bad titles. I feel there are less bad pnp rpgs out there than bad video games.
My recommendation is dependent upon two factors...
1) Players happy with PDF?
2) what kind of gaming do you like for sci-fi?
If happy with PDF, any edition works.
If not, Mongoose or GURPS Trav.
As for playstyle....
Rulings, not rules: CT - because rulings are essential to make it run.
Rules for Everything: GURPS Traveller. (But note that it's not compatible with anything else)
The ability to scale seamlessly between man-on-man combat and large scale battlefield action: MegaTraveller. (The ship combat rules are not so hot...)
Loads of control over character generation, really detailed ship and vehicle rules: TNE.
Also, remember: about half of the "CT" discussions are not about CT as a ruleset, but CT as a setting.
1) Players happy with PDF?
2) what kind of gaming do you like for sci-fi?
If happy with PDF, any edition works.
If not, Mongoose or GURPS Trav.
As for playstyle....
Rulings, not rules: CT - because rulings are essential to make it run.
Rules for Everything: GURPS Traveller. (But note that it's not compatible with anything else)
The ability to scale seamlessly between man-on-man combat and large scale battlefield action: MegaTraveller. (The ship combat rules are not so hot...)
Loads of control over character generation, really detailed ship and vehicle rules: TNE.
Also, remember: about half of the "CT" discussions are not about CT as a ruleset, but CT as a setting.
Limburger59
SOC-12
I've had fun cobbling together a bunch of additional house rules with Classic Traveller as the foundation, since I bought the Little Black Books in 1978. But as I've borrowed ideas from MT, GT, and MgT it has gotten unwieldy with unintended contradictions or duplications. At this point I'm tempted to start over with T5 as a clean slate.
It may not be wise to put off getting started with your group - strike while the iron is hot; but you may want to be wise with your group's dollars until you get more feedback on T5.
Both are good picks, IMO.
I played CT from the '80s till the year after MgT came out - jumped onto MgT as it seemed to have many appealing concepts. I've since gone back to CT - with more house rules courtesy of my MgT experience.
My style is very roleplay focused, though. CT (LBBs 1-3, actually) is better for that, IMO - as there are fewer rules to contend with, and the mechanics are a lot more situational and Referee dependent.
MgT expands chargen, skills and overall number of careers. The events and connection rules are popular for establishing backstory relationships. But, like with the latter LBBs (4 on), I find the number of skills acquired overkill (and munchkin-ish, IMO).
MgT uses a universal task mechanic. Which seems good - in theory. CT has about 2 dozen skills with unique mechanics defined for most. However, in play CT just has a target and maybe a DM or two for each check. Whereas MgT has 100 documented unique skill checks that follow the task mechanic (and several that are exceptional) and require multiple DMs per check to be accounted for, such as skill, difficulty of task, characteristic DM, timing DMs, mutli-tasking penalty DMs, plus task chaining and situational DMs. Which result in one of 6 levels of success (assuming they don't saturate the 2d6).
This is not too hard, per se, (though in forums I find most people forget to account for half of the potential DMs - which could lead to friction in play when player's don't ) but I found it rather intrusive in actual play. It broke my Referee-ing stride and players calculating DMs seemed to distract them from actually roleplaying.
It encouraged thinking of what the mechanics allow, vs. what a character would choose to do, given their character. I also found it more cumbersome to track what skills players had (resorting to elaborate spreadsheets, actually) - even as a player I would forget from the list of 20 or more skills for older PCs. CT characters tend to have very few skills.
Also, MgT makes a lot of use of 'level-0' skills - encouraging rolling for more mundane things.
MgT combat is better defined and more featured, but a lot less deadly to the point of absurdity in many cases. A bit more simulationist than how I play CT combat - which is not by the rules - but I took away some nice ideas from it.
MgT space combat is a bit better than CT, IMO - so I snagged a number of ideas from it. (Ignoring capital ship combat ala High Guard books in both.)
I played CT from the '80s till the year after MgT came out - jumped onto MgT as it seemed to have many appealing concepts. I've since gone back to CT - with more house rules courtesy of my MgT experience.
My style is very roleplay focused, though. CT (LBBs 1-3, actually) is better for that, IMO - as there are fewer rules to contend with, and the mechanics are a lot more situational and Referee dependent.
MgT expands chargen, skills and overall number of careers. The events and connection rules are popular for establishing backstory relationships. But, like with the latter LBBs (4 on), I find the number of skills acquired overkill (and munchkin-ish, IMO).
MgT uses a universal task mechanic. Which seems good - in theory. CT has about 2 dozen skills with unique mechanics defined for most. However, in play CT just has a target and maybe a DM or two for each check. Whereas MgT has 100 documented unique skill checks that follow the task mechanic (and several that are exceptional) and require multiple DMs per check to be accounted for, such as skill, difficulty of task, characteristic DM, timing DMs, mutli-tasking penalty DMs, plus task chaining and situational DMs. Which result in one of 6 levels of success (assuming they don't saturate the 2d6).
This is not too hard, per se, (though in forums I find most people forget to account for half of the potential DMs - which could lead to friction in play when player's don't
) but I found it rather intrusive in actual play. It broke my Referee-ing stride and players calculating DMs seemed to distract them from actually roleplaying.It encouraged thinking of what the mechanics allow, vs. what a character would choose to do, given their character. I also found it more cumbersome to track what skills players had (resorting to elaborate spreadsheets, actually) - even as a player I would forget from the list of 20 or more skills for older PCs. CT characters tend to have very few skills.
Also, MgT makes a lot of use of 'level-0' skills - encouraging rolling for more mundane things.
MgT combat is better defined and more featured, but a lot less deadly to the point of absurdity in many cases. A bit more simulationist than how I play CT combat - which is not by the rules - but I took away some nice ideas from it.
MgT space combat is a bit better than CT, IMO - so I snagged a number of ideas from it. (Ignoring capital ship combat ala High Guard books in both.)
DangerousThing
SOC-13
Welcome back!
I like T5, but I'm looking at GURPS again.
I have a home brew system for advantages and disadvantages, but GURPS already has that built in.
On the other hand T5 has a lot to recommend it.
And CT has a nice simple set of rules.
It comes down to what you and your players are comfortable with.
I like T5, but I'm looking at GURPS again.
I have a home brew system for advantages and disadvantages, but GURPS already has that built in.
On the other hand T5 has a lot to recommend it.
And CT has a nice simple set of rules.
It comes down to what you and your players are comfortable with.
This is not too hard, per se, (though in forums I find most people forget to account for half of the potential DMs - which could lead to friction in play when player's don't
It encouraged thinking of what the mechanics allow, vs. what a character would choose to do, given their character.
Heh heh, maybe this is a good place for me to make another pitch for Fudge Traveller - using whatever version of Traveller you prefer to generate characters, ships, vehicles, etc before play, but using Fudge to handle everything during play.
I actually started work on an article for Freelance Traveller outlining how we use Fudge in our Traveller game, but unfortunately
oo:?) the medical problems that have kept me at home the past six weeks seem resolved now, so I am back to work and have less time for game-related stuff. (Now if I could just get my waking/sleeping rhythms back on normal schedule...)
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Heretic hat on.
Buy Mongoose Traveller. The core book, nothing else. See if you like it.
It has a much better combat system and task system than the original CT rules.
Then get the Classic Traveller CDs from FFE - the CT disc and the JTAS disc.
Buy Mongoose Traveller. The core book, nothing else. See if you like it.
It has a much better combat system and task system than the original CT rules.
Then get the Classic Traveller CDs from FFE - the CT disc and the JTAS disc.
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
This is a good suggestion.
I have been playing Classic Traveller since 1982 and find that it really is very compatible with Mongoose Traveller. There is a wealth of material for both, and rules on how to create your own material!
I agree, mong core, and then from Far Future Enterprises; but maybe go for the 443 deal and get apocrypha 1 & 2 as well. It depends on money, format wanted as well, but just about everybody agrees that the four CT disks are the best deal in gaming for the amount and quality of materials.
This is another thing I like about the elegant 'simplicity' of CT - my players almost never had copies of the rules - they didn't need them during play. Neither did I. Basically they were for chargen (and design) - for which there are lots of generators online and offline software freely available. (Note that MgT's license doesn't generally allow sharing free software - so there really isn't much out there for it. With more rules, and more complexity, writing software is also harder for it.)
During play, at most the rules on the handful of PC skills are easily summarized on an index card, if desired - with the rest of the character 'sheet'. Add a line for weapon stats. Done.
MgT gives the Ref more already defined, but the caveat is you are always left having to carry those 'silver platters' around.
I.e. Players and Ref are definitely going to need a lot more reference material and during play. The Ref needs to be familiar with many, many more rules and the hundred odd (Core alone) 'universal mechanic' skill definitions to avoid being called out by players with good memories (and bad!), especially if they have the book(s). Combat is definitely helped with a flow chart (there are several out there) and the referee screen will come in handy (though quite incomplete for full play).I've introduced a lot of players new to RPGs and Traveller in a single play session - not only bringing them up to speed with all the rules they needed to know, but playing out a full adventure. With MgT, I've spent a full session just basically on chargen (fun though) and combat will pretty much eat up a full session the first time played (and leave plenty of wrong assumptions and questions for future combats). I also found myself and other players asking 'do I have that skill?' and consulting character sheets quite frequently, impinging on actually playing out a character.
Don't get me wrong - MgT is good and has a wealth of stuff to draw from (I recommend getting Core or at least reading the SRD). If I hadn't already known CT, I would have been happy enough with MgT. Though, I suspect I would not have played it for as many years as CT.
Sounds interesting. Ran across this - http://agrav.net/rpg/fudge/traveller.html - some time back, but never tried it.SpaceBadger said:
First of all, let me welcome you too.
About the versions, CT and MgT are, IMHO, nearly equivalents.
Differences:
Chargen: MgT uses to give some more skills (unless you use advanced CharGen from CT) and more background.
The combat system in MgT is more based on armor avoiding hits, while in CT in armor modifying the to hit roll (so you either hit or miss, but if you hit full damage is accrued, regardless of armor).
Starship design and combat is different. Among other differences, MgT ships may be destroyed by cummulative damage, while CT ships only by criticals (everything else is easily repairable).
MgT has a clear vehicle combat, while CT has not.
And for referees, MgT has a more standarized task system, while CT is more referees dependent.
In any case, both are as likely to be enjoyed, and MgT captured quite well (IMHO) CT style, ehile more evolutioned (after all, it came nearly 30 years latter and benefited form all this experience).
About the versions, CT and MgT are, IMHO, nearly equivalents.
Differences:
Chargen: MgT uses to give some more skills (unless you use advanced CharGen from CT) and more background.
The combat system in MgT is more based on armor avoiding hits, while in CT in armor modifying the to hit roll (so you either hit or miss, but if you hit full damage is accrued, regardless of armor).
Starship design and combat is different. Among other differences, MgT ships may be destroyed by cummulative damage, while CT ships only by criticals (everything else is easily repairable).
MgT has a clear vehicle combat, while CT has not.
And for referees, MgT has a more standarized task system, while CT is more referees dependent.
In any case, both are as likely to be enjoyed, and MgT captured quite well (IMHO) CT style, ehile more evolutioned (after all, it came nearly 30 years latter and benefited form all this experience).
I'd say that MgT is to CT what Pathfinder is to AD&D, or maybe "OD&D". Spiritually similar games with many of the same trappings, but a different style of play.
MgT is more "d20" like, in that your skills are your "play book". (Sure, you can TRY anything, but your penalties are high enough that in my experience, players don't.) And MgT has a ton of very detailed rules additions (kind of like the old "The Complete <Class>" stuff), making it more friendly to folks who like modern, well-supported RPGs.
CT is more OD&D like, in that your skills are your specialties, but your "play book" is whatever you can dream up to do. (Sure, you may not be good at some things, but there are so few skills that you can't rely on someone having an exact fit anyway.) There is quite a lot of material around for CT, and EVERYONE house-rules things here and there because CT is a quirky and often incomplete beast.
I've played more CT than MgT, though I've probably spent more money on MgT stuff, for whatever that's worth. You can run the same adventures with both systems with minimal conversions. (Animals, Armor/Weapons and robots are different between the two, but pick one system and stick with it and you'll be fine.)
MgT is more "d20" like, in that your skills are your "play book". (Sure, you can TRY anything, but your penalties are high enough that in my experience, players don't.) And MgT has a ton of very detailed rules additions (kind of like the old "The Complete <Class>" stuff), making it more friendly to folks who like modern, well-supported RPGs.
CT is more OD&D like, in that your skills are your specialties, but your "play book" is whatever you can dream up to do. (Sure, you may not be good at some things, but there are so few skills that you can't rely on someone having an exact fit anyway.) There is quite a lot of material around for CT, and EVERYONE house-rules things here and there because CT is a quirky and often incomplete beast.
I've played more CT than MgT, though I've probably spent more money on MgT stuff, for whatever that's worth. You can run the same adventures with both systems with minimal conversions. (Animals, Armor/Weapons and robots are different between the two, but pick one system and stick with it and you'll be fine.)
1. Mongoose Traveller core rulebook first
2. CT CD-ROM next [optional]
3. Traveller5 next
I agree. With Mongoose Traveller's core rules you get more than you would with the old CT core rules. Get it. You can go a long way on that book alone.
Then, if you find you really need a lot of background information, then go for the CT CD-ROM. But I'd recommend going as long as you can on rolling your own Traveller Universe, if you like that sort of thing.
For extended rules that cover a lot of everything, the T5 book or PDF is the way to go. But if time and budget constrain you, get the Mongoose core first.
2. CT CD-ROM next [optional]
3. Traveller5 next
I agree. With Mongoose Traveller's core rules you get more than you would with the old CT core rules. Get it. You can go a long way on that book alone.
Then, if you find you really need a lot of background information, then go for the CT CD-ROM. But I'd recommend going as long as you can on rolling your own Traveller Universe, if you like that sort of thing.
For extended rules that cover a lot of everything, the T5 book or PDF is the way to go. But if time and budget constrain you, get the Mongoose core first.
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