Sad little confession

[cym0k]

(New to Traveller so ymmv etc. Not 100% serious either, just an observation)

I suppose after a few posts this is my official introduction. Hello.

On with the post. I suspect I am in a tiny minority with this one. But as far as versions of Traveller go I feel that if I decide to play a version that hasn't been wrought from the depths of Miller's brain case I am failing.

Yes, I know MGT is well received. I own the core. But if I go out and run it or play it I want CT or T5. I don't feel like this about other systems. What gives?? I played Osric, Labyrinth Lord, and others in the style of D&D. But no, Traveller is different. Talk about limiting the already meager amount of players I have access to!

Apologies, this is not an edition war, just a minor confession. I know that there is much to be gained from the T-cannon in all its forms, I am aware of this.


Now that is out of the way, I can stop editing this post and get on with things. Enough silliness, the BBB needs reading.

 

[tjoneslo]

On with the post. I suspect I am in a tiny minority with this one. But as far as versions of Traveller go I feel that if I decide to play a version that hasn't been wrought from the depths of Miller's brain case I am failing.

What you are observing is the gongards (the old grublers) reminiscing about how the old days were so much better than today, and you darn kids should get off my lawn.

 

[cym0k]

It has nothing to do with other people. I really should've made that very clear!

Apologies if that was the case!

I see Traveller and 'without' other players/grogs/etc I have decided for myself that there are certain valid choices over and above others.

 

[atpollard]

The many D&D flavored games all share a similar 'feel'. If they all met in 'Middle Earth' they would pretty much get along and know what's going on.

Star Wars and Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica are all movies that involve people in spaceships, but the 'feel' of the three universes are nothing alike. One would have trouble imagining a Luke Skywalker, Captain Kirk and Starbuck meeting in a bar for drinks ... what would they talk about?

Coded in most of the Traveller rules, even in spite of the often radically different game mechanics, is a distinct 'feel' that is different enough from the universes of Star Wars, Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica that characters from another branch of Sci-Fi would not feel at home in the Traveller Universe (either the Official 'Third Imperium' or a personal Traveller Universe created with the rules).

In many ways that is both a strength and a weakness. While a dragon slaying, princess saving Knight in shining armor will immediately feel right at home in almost any fantasy game system, people familiar with Star Trek or playing a Jedi will find Traveller strange and new ... not what they are used to. Unfamiliar. On the minus side, it leaves us off in the corner playing by ourselves rather than sharing with the other Space Opera gamers. This is not because we are anti-social. It is because, like checkers and chess, their game and our game are only superficially similar. On the plus side, it means that whatever rule system you port it over to ... Hero Traveller, Gurps Traveller, T20 Traveller or Mongoose Traveller ... the universe still feels like Traveller.

Sort of like the universe of Firefly/Serenity, it feels different and unique. Once you fall in love with Traveller, nothing else feels right.

 

[MCEvans]

I don't think you are in any minority. We all love Traveller in its many incarnations.
But even the purists of one incarnation or another will "house rule" or import some aspect of another incarnation because they like how that was done or how it rounds out their game. And you know what, that is great and that is how Traveller has kept growing and evolving. Most of the 'warm' discussions on the site help people to flesh-out there own game and make logical connections in there own mind and that of their players.

I myself, so far, prefer an MT system with a CT background, will the rebellion happen in MTU? I doubt it, but you never know. There are aspects of MgT I like and am trying to incorporate in to my game. How do I like the others honestly, I don't have enough of them to know and T5 is out of reach due to lack of $$$ but from what I have seen and read here on CotI it might be my go to incarnation or like others I'll cherry pick as needed.

Just don't be embarrassed for what you like or don't like about an incarnation of this wonderful game of Traveller.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

It has nothing to do with other people. I really should've made that very clear!

Apologies if that was the case!

I see Traveller and 'without' other players/grogs/etc I have decided for myself that there are certain valid choices over and above others.

Respectfully, you are are disregarding an important aspect of gaming outside of the game itself. I think you are seeing the hero worship I see gamers have of some game designers. More of the early days of gaming psych here.

Without Mr. Gygax and Mr. Miller, we might only still be doing just miniatures and war games (without any rpg aspects) or just going to join the SCA. I cut my teeth on AD&D and Traveller and have never forgotten my first gaming loves.

Now by analogy, sort of, to mythology:
However, a lot of people go on about, and I say intentionally, cynically, "the great god Gygax (or Miller) said it's so that's how it should be". As there was no internet, the only voices of designers we heard we heard were those who could publish and those we talked to at GenCon or Origins. So GenCon or Origins were the temples, and Dragon Magazine and JTAS the Oracles.
Time moves forward and rpgs expanded and diversified. Oh, and the Internet. This occurring meant a dilution of the hero worship. I feel that Mr. Gygax and Mr. Miller (and others like Mr. Jackson) are sort of the primeval Titans, and later designers like Mark Rein*Hagen ard Monte Cook are more like the later Greek gods. So many gods to choose from now.
Now, coming back to reality.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Now within the Traveller game itself.

AD&D diversified via the numerous campaigns for decades. Traveller did not enjoy the diversification until very recently. For example you could discuss the differences of elves in Greyhawk vs. Dragonlance vs. Forgotten Realms vs. Eberron vs. what have you.

Take FTL. Until Mongoose Core Rules and T5, how many FTL systems did Traveller use? One. 2300 does not count as that was a different rules system. Now Traveller has how many campaigns published and commonly available via various license holders right now? Not saying Jump Drive the only way to do FTL. But with effectively only one campaign, it was the only game in town.

The lack of diversification and decades not not having alternate, published campaigns, is why we talk more about less subjects.

My thoughts anyways...

 

[GypsyComet]

Take FTL. Until Mongoose Core Rules and T5, how many FTL systems did Traveller use? One. 2300 does not count as that was a different rules system.

2300AD does count now, though.

The recent book on Warpships from a third party doesn't really count *yet* as it has no setting to go with it, and warp causes enough cascade changes that you can't use the 3Imp straight.

TNE had several alternative drives, but no settings to place them in.

As for Cy's original question, Mongoose was written with some supervision by Marc, and is a direct and close descendent of CT. He has oversight on the setting books being written, just as he was more involved than might be obvious with MegaTraveller.

Look at the author bylines in JTAS back in the day. A lot of what our collective consciousness recalls as Traveler wasn't written by Marc then, either.

Yes, T5 needs some cheerleading, but that's going to be an uphill battle until a players book is available. That toolbook is really dense.

 

[robject]

[...] a lot of people go on about, and I say intentionally, cynically, "the great god Gygax (or Miller) said it's so that's how it should be". [...]

Now, coming back to reality.

I used to have some Miller-worship. Now I know him better. But, I still prefer his, and GDW's, early Traveller 'style' -- if that's the right word -- even though I may disagree on things.

So, I more or less agree with the original poster.

 

[Kilgs]

On with the post. I suspect I am in a tiny minority with this one. But as far as versions of Traveller go I feel that if I decide to play a version that hasn't been wrought from the depths of Miller's brain case I am failing.

We may be tiny but we're good-looking and wear shiny shoes! Welcome to the club. I've found that the old stuff is great for ideas since it was written by very dedicated authors. But the mechanics of the old stuff (excepting T2K/TNE) is pretty uninspiring for me so I'm right there with you.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Advice

I suspect I am in a tiny minority with this one. But as far as versions of Traveller go I feel that if I decide to play a version that hasn't been wrought from the depths of Miller's brain case I am failing.

There is no "Fail" in Traveller.
We play or we play not.
All editions have plusses and minuses in my opinion.
The Traveller universe is large and mostly still unexplored and unexploited.
Use the tools you are most comfortable with from whichever edition you have handy and remember the most important thing:
Have Fun!

 

[aramis]

(New to Traveller so ymmv etc. Not 100% serious either, just an observation)

I suppose after a few posts this is my official introduction. Hello.

On with the post. I suspect I am in a tiny minority with this one. But as far as versions of Traveller go I feel that if I decide to play a version that hasn't been wrought from the depths of Miller's brain case I am failing.

Then you have but one choice: T4 (sans supplements and without ship creation), or T5. Because all the other core rulebooks are not pure "MWM"... CT was Marc with input from Loren Wiseman and Frank Chadwick (and perhaps others). Note that CT-77 doesn't even have a credits list... Much of what "Traveller" became looks to be from Loren's fertile imagination.

Even the core of CT mechanics has its genesis in other works. CT is clearly derivative of En Guard. (Google "En Guard rules" to get a glimpse - it's one of the first forays into open licensing.)

Truth be told, tho', most of us have a favorite edition, and most of us have taken Mr. Miller's core framework, as expanded by Loren, Bill, Andrew, Joe, Gary, Chuck, Charles, John, Frank, Dave and Marc, and more recently Gareth, Hunter, Myself, Martin, Rob, Don, and others, and picked and chosen our favorite bits, made a mash up that works, and run with it.

Traveller is, in any edition, a melange. Like a good curry, it's the different flavors working together in harmony. Even T5 isn't "pure Marc" - playtesters, and contributors like Don and Rob, have had impacts.

Pick your favorite parts, and build from there - the OTU isn't actually "core" to CT, T5, nor MGT.

 

[cym0k]

Respectfully, you are are disregarding an important aspect of gaming outside of the game itself. I think you are seeing the hero worship I see gamers have of some game designers. More of the early days of gaming psych here.

Without Mr. Gygax and Mr. Miller, we might only still be doing just miniatures and war games (without any rpg aspects) or just going to join the SCA. I cut my teeth on AD&D and Traveller and have never forgotten my first gaming loves.

Now by analogy, sort of, to mythology:
However, a lot of people go on about, and I say intentionally, cynically, "the great god Gygax (or Miller) said it's so that's how it should be". As there was no internet, the only voices of designers we heard we heard were those who could publish and those we talked to at GenCon or Origins. So GenCon or Origins were the temples, and Dragon Magazine and JTAS the Oracles.
Time moves forward and rpgs expanded and diversified. Oh, and the Internet. This occurring meant a dilution of the hero worship. I feel that Mr. Gygax and Mr. Miller (and others like Mr. Jackson) are sort of the primeval Titans, and later designers like Mark Rein*Hagen ard Monte Cook are more like the later Greek gods. So many gods to choose from now.
Now, coming back to reality.

REALLY valid point (amongst many other valid points to my brain fart of a post!).

TO be brutally honest with myself, I need to engage with MT, 2300 and all rest. But I like what I see.

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

What you are observing is the gongards (the old grublers) reminiscing about how the old days were so much better than today, and you darn kids should get off my lawn.

Hey, I didn't think you saw me!

Classic TRAVELLER was a wonderful revelation to me, after playing all sorts of wargames and dealing with the complex nature of DnD. I have played many games, house ruled the crap out of some of them, and still nothing is as satisfying as CT.

Old school computer programmers had a word for it: elegance. Back in the days when 32Kb was the total memory for an entire multi-user system, you had to be clever to surmount a lack of resources. CT does that to thois day, painting in broad strokes and bright colors, allowing you do create whatever you wish.

The day I stumbled onto this web site, I was full of despair. No one even seemed to know about TRAVELLER, or wanted to play it. Seeing an active community reinvigorated by creative efforts, with the result that a novel is soon to be published.

Don't leave! Wander through the various forums. participate, start a new topic or two. You will teach -- and learn, no matter which incarnation of TRAVELLER is being discussed.

 

[Kilgs]

Don't leave! Wander through the various forums. participate, start a new topic or two. You will teach -- and learn, no matter which incarnation of TRAVELLER is being discussed.

Bravo!

 

[pennshome723]

I must say it is nice that so many different versions of Traveller are talked about here...it does help. I like it all really.