Sailing vessel construction rules

[robject]

Eleven's a good number. 2 through 12, you know.

Though, I'd not elevate a skill to a career. For example, I'd like to see Navy doctors and Navy diplomats.

Army, Navy, Marine, Merchant, Rogue, Pirate (I like the distinction), Explorer, Noble, Agent, Scientist (the researcher-inventor-mad scientist), aaaand...

...The twin of the mad scientist, something like a magician, or alchemist, or witch-doctor, what-have-you. It can be a psionic career, but we all know that psionics isn't a science in the Age of Sail; it's likely to look like magic. So I need a generic name that doesn't sound like D&D. Astrologer. Magi. Seer. What do you think?

And how do the career types sound in general?

"I'm a class 3 Explorer."
"Arr! I be a businessman, of sorts. Avast!"

And even more to be feared:

"I'm a Scientist. Here, hold this electrode a moment/drink this/stand here..."

 

[robject]

Eleven's a good number. 2 through 12, you know.

Though, I'd not elevate a skill to a career. For example, I'd like to see Navy doctors and Navy diplomats.

Army, Navy, Marine, Merchant, Rogue, Pirate (I like the distinction), Explorer, Noble, Agent, Scientist (the researcher-inventor-mad scientist), aaaand...

...The twin of the mad scientist, something like a magician, or alchemist, or witch-doctor, what-have-you. It can be a psionic career, but we all know that psionics isn't a science in the Age of Sail; it's likely to look like magic. So I need a generic name that doesn't sound like D&D. Astrologer. Magi. Seer. What do you think?

And how do the career types sound in general?

"I'm a class 3 Explorer."
"Arr! I be a businessman, of sorts. Avast!"

And even more to be feared:

"I'm a Scientist. Here, hold this electrode a moment/drink this/stand here..."

 

[Ranger]

Yes, it sounds very interesting. I was musing to myself about taking the Bureaucrat and turning him into a Clergyman.

And it would need a set of rules for ship actions. Probably very similar to Book 2, but needing to take wind into account. Was that part of your plan for this thread already? I figured if you were putting cannons on ships, someone was going to want to shoot them at someone else.

 

[Ranger]

Yes, it sounds very interesting. I was musing to myself about taking the Bureaucrat and turning him into a Clergyman.

And it would need a set of rules for ship actions. Probably very similar to Book 2, but needing to take wind into account. Was that part of your plan for this thread already? I figured if you were putting cannons on ships, someone was going to want to shoot them at someone else.

 

[robject]

Plus, there's the Tinker career: the person who works materials into something useful for others. The Toolsmith. The Watchmaker.

 

[robject]

Plus, there's the Tinker career: the person who works materials into something useful for others. The Toolsmith. The Watchmaker.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Ranger:
Yes, it sounds very interesting. I was musing to myself about taking the Bureaucrat and turning him into a Clergyman.

And it would need a set of rules for ship actions. Probably very similar to Book 2, but needing to take wind into account. Was that part of your plan for this thread already? I figured if you were putting cannons on ships, someone was going to want to shoot them at someone else.

Okay, how about a Book2/Mayday variation.

But first, Rowers.

As a first-guess SWAG, let's say rowing speed (no sail) is

[rowers] / [volume]

...and you can squeeze in two rowers per deck square along the length of the craft (and you can double or triple them up to make room at the fore or aft for motivational stuff like big drums, or rams, or a fore gun, etc).

So a 10-ton "boat" may have 20 rower squares per side, max, for a speed of 2.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Ranger:
Yes, it sounds very interesting. I was musing to myself about taking the Bureaucrat and turning him into a Clergyman.

And it would need a set of rules for ship actions. Probably very similar to Book 2, but needing to take wind into account. Was that part of your plan for this thread already? I figured if you were putting cannons on ships, someone was going to want to shoot them at someone else.

Okay, how about a Book2/Mayday variation.

But first, Rowers.

As a first-guess SWAG, let's say rowing speed (no sail) is

[rowers] / [volume]

...and you can squeeze in two rowers per deck square along the length of the craft (and you can double or triple them up to make room at the fore or aft for motivational stuff like big drums, or rams, or a fore gun, etc).

So a 10-ton "boat" may have 20 rower squares per side, max, for a speed of 2.

 

[robject]

So, Mayday for Boats.

Simple Movement

Rowers set the becalmed speed.

Ships with sails may move with the wind (and one hex off) at its speed; so it can move at windspeed in one of three directions. TL3 sailing ships may move at the wind's speed in any direction except directly into the wind.


Simple (?) Wind

The wind blows in one of the six directions of a hex. At sea, the wind changes direction randomly.

Near shore, the wind cycles with the tides. (If you want to be picky, it could cycle clockwise in one hemisphere and counterclockwise in the other). The winds are strongest when the tides are midway.

Thoughts?


Simple Tides

So, on the periphery of your combat map, if it's got a shoreline, you've got a Tide Advancing border (yellow) and a Tide Receding border (blue). Each turn, the tide advances one hex toward the high-tide mark, then turns around and recedes a hex toward the low-tide mark, then back again.

It would be nice if each tide 'line' had a wind-facing indicator.

Thoughts?


Pre-Combat thought

Now, the cannon section probably ought to be rethought, with an eye toward combat.

I reckon ship armor will be much, much simpler than High Guard. Like, all-or-nothing steel plates that stops weaker cannon.

 

[robject]

So, Mayday for Boats.

Simple Movement

Rowers set the becalmed speed.

Ships with sails may move with the wind (and one hex off) at its speed; so it can move at windspeed in one of three directions. TL3 sailing ships may move at the wind's speed in any direction except directly into the wind.


Simple (?) Wind

The wind blows in one of the six directions of a hex. At sea, the wind changes direction randomly.

Near shore, the wind cycles with the tides. (If you want to be picky, it could cycle clockwise in one hemisphere and counterclockwise in the other). The winds are strongest when the tides are midway.

Thoughts?


Simple Tides

So, on the periphery of your combat map, if it's got a shoreline, you've got a Tide Advancing border (yellow) and a Tide Receding border (blue). Each turn, the tide advances one hex toward the high-tide mark, then turns around and recedes a hex toward the low-tide mark, then back again.

It would be nice if each tide 'line' had a wind-facing indicator.

Thoughts?


Pre-Combat thought

Now, the cannon section probably ought to be rethought, with an eye toward combat.

I reckon ship armor will be much, much simpler than High Guard. Like, all-or-nothing steel plates that stops weaker cannon.

 

[Ranger]

Originally posted by robject:
Plus, there's the Tinker career: the person who works materials into something useful for others. The Toolsmith. The Watchmaker.

Yes, I was thinking a craftsman career would be good. It is handy to have someone who can tinker with things and shape metal.

Also, maybe make the more traditional "scientist" a doctor also. I seem to recall that many scientists earned their living practicing medicine and did their "science" on the side in the 17th and 18th Centuries.

I like the idea of the psi career, but for the life of me I can't come up with a name for it either.

 

[Ranger]

Originally posted by robject:
Plus, there's the Tinker career: the person who works materials into something useful for others. The Toolsmith. The Watchmaker.

Yes, I was thinking a craftsman career would be good. It is handy to have someone who can tinker with things and shape metal.

Also, maybe make the more traditional "scientist" a doctor also. I seem to recall that many scientists earned their living practicing medicine and did their "science" on the side in the 17th and 18th Centuries.

I like the idea of the psi career, but for the life of me I can't come up with a name for it either.

 

[Jeffr0]

T4 adopted "Psionicist" for the psi career. Maybe "Mentalist" would be more appropos?

 

[Ranger]

Simple (?) Wind

The wind blows in one of the six directions of a hex. At sea, the wind changes direction randomly.

Near shore, the wind cycles with the tides. (If you want to be picky, it could cycle clockwise in one hemisphere and counterclockwise in the other). The winds are strongest when the tides are midway.

Thoughts?

I would think maybe only half speed for TL 3 (Lateen) sails moving into the wind. You still have to furle your square rigs to move into the wind. And it is important to keep the wind gauge as a tactical advantage.

Scooners would not face the same problems with loosing speed, but they list heavily, and you can really only use one side's guns when fully rigged (which is why even though scooners are gererally faster and more agile than square rigs, navies kept the square rigs as a much better gun platform)*

*I didn't know that until I started playing the Wizkids Pirates game and some guy on the forum there explained the logic behind scooners only getting to fire half their guns to one side or the other.

 

[Jeffr0]

T4 adopted "Psionicist" for the psi career. Maybe "Mentalist" would be more appropos?

 

[Ranger]

Simple (?) Wind

The wind blows in one of the six directions of a hex. At sea, the wind changes direction randomly.

Near shore, the wind cycles with the tides. (If you want to be picky, it could cycle clockwise in one hemisphere and counterclockwise in the other). The winds are strongest when the tides are midway.

Thoughts?

I would think maybe only half speed for TL 3 (Lateen) sails moving into the wind. You still have to furle your square rigs to move into the wind. And it is important to keep the wind gauge as a tactical advantage.

Scooners would not face the same problems with loosing speed, but they list heavily, and you can really only use one side's guns when fully rigged (which is why even though scooners are gererally faster and more agile than square rigs, navies kept the square rigs as a much better gun platform)*

*I didn't know that until I started playing the Wizkids Pirates game and some guy on the forum there explained the logic behind scooners only getting to fire half their guns to one side or the other.

 

[Ishmael]

how about just using rules such as "Heart of Oak" for movement?...and combat for low tech cannon too.

you don't furl sails in a square rig to sail into the wind ( square rigged ships can't sail directly into the wind...or even too close...fore/aft rigs can sail closer which is their advantage. You turn by swinging the stern across the wind ( beating ) as opposed to swinging the bow ( tacking which if not done exactly right can leave you in irons,,bad bad bad)

iirc, lanteen rigged ships fall about halfway between square and fore/aft rigs in efficiency and ability to sail close to the wind...and some ships can change their rigging from square to fore/aft and back...but difficult and time consuming.

at sea, wind does not change purely randomly...aka trade winds blow the same direction for days and days...sometimes the sails didn't even need to be trimmed for days..called trade winds because they were used by ships sailing between east and west.

depending on latitude, winds vary only a few points in normal conditions...

 

[Ishmael]

how about just using rules such as "Heart of Oak" for movement?...and combat for low tech cannon too.

you don't furl sails in a square rig to sail into the wind ( square rigged ships can't sail directly into the wind...or even too close...fore/aft rigs can sail closer which is their advantage. You turn by swinging the stern across the wind ( beating ) as opposed to swinging the bow ( tacking which if not done exactly right can leave you in irons,,bad bad bad)

iirc, lanteen rigged ships fall about halfway between square and fore/aft rigs in efficiency and ability to sail close to the wind...and some ships can change their rigging from square to fore/aft and back...but difficult and time consuming.

at sea, wind does not change purely randomly...aka trade winds blow the same direction for days and days...sometimes the sails didn't even need to be trimmed for days..called trade winds because they were used by ships sailing between east and west.

depending on latitude, winds vary only a few points in normal conditions...

 

[Ranger]

iirc, lanteen rigged ships fall about halfway between square and fore/aft rigs in efficiency and ability to sail close to the wind...and some ships can change their rigging from square to fore/aft and back...but difficult and time consuming.

Yes, this is what I was trying to convey (poorly obviously).

Most square rigs of the period also carried sets of triagular sails that would also let them to sail somewhat into the wind, but to use those effectivly they had to furl their square rig sails. Techinically they are not Lanteen Sails becasue they are rigged between the masts not across them, but the work on the same principle of catching the wind diagonally which alows you to move forward even when the wind isn't coming from the rear of the ship. If you don't have that capacity then you simply can't get back and forth across the Atlantic unless you're willing to sail west to the Caribbean, then north up the East Coast, and then East across the North Atlanic back to Northern Europe. Any other route and you are sailing into the trade winds at least part of the way.

 

[Ranger]

iirc, lanteen rigged ships fall about halfway between square and fore/aft rigs in efficiency and ability to sail close to the wind...and some ships can change their rigging from square to fore/aft and back...but difficult and time consuming.

Yes, this is what I was trying to convey (poorly obviously).

Most square rigs of the period also carried sets of triagular sails that would also let them to sail somewhat into the wind, but to use those effectivly they had to furl their square rig sails. Techinically they are not Lanteen Sails becasue they are rigged between the masts not across them, but the work on the same principle of catching the wind diagonally which alows you to move forward even when the wind isn't coming from the rear of the ship. If you don't have that capacity then you simply can't get back and forth across the Atlantic unless you're willing to sail west to the Caribbean, then north up the East Coast, and then East across the North Atlanic back to Northern Europe. Any other route and you are sailing into the trade winds at least part of the way.