Sandcasters.... How do they WORK?

[Supplement Four]

I'm thinking the cannisters of sand are flung out into space using a launcher (like a depth-charge launcher). The gunner fires this out on a vector equal with the ship's, in between the ship and the enemy (the cloud is only the canocal 50 kg per cannister--not enough to enshroud the entire ship).

The ship's hull grid can be used to "position" the sand where needed, and without this "focusing", the cloud will dissipate rapidly.

I'm leaning that way--sticks to CT canon and somewhat makes sense.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm thinking the cannisters of sand are flung out into space using a launcher (like a depth-charge launcher). The gunner fires this out on a vector equal with the ship's, in between the ship and the enemy (the cloud is only the canocal 50 kg per cannister--not enough to enshroud the entire ship).

The ship's hull grid can be used to "position" the sand where needed, and without this "focusing", the cloud will dissipate rapidly.

I'm leaning that way--sticks to CT canon and somewhat makes sense.

 

[epicenter00]

Apparently that is pretty close to how it reads in the FF&S book. The cloud doesn't cover the entire ship, it has a definite shape and much of the ship isn't covered. Apparently the guy (or gal) at the sandcaster station uses the controls to move the cloud to where it's needed and essentially guesses where the attack is coming in from (perhaps tied in with the ship's Predict program) to orient the sand to the incoming attack.

 

[epicenter00]

Apparently that is pretty close to how it reads in the FF&S book. The cloud doesn't cover the entire ship, it has a definite shape and much of the ship isn't covered. Apparently the guy (or gal) at the sandcaster station uses the controls to move the cloud to where it's needed and essentially guesses where the attack is coming in from (perhaps tied in with the ship's Predict program) to orient the sand to the incoming attack.

 

[Jeffr0]

Originally posted by WJP:
The ship's hull grid can be used to "position" the sand where needed, and without this "focusing", the cloud will dissipate rapidly.

What do you mean by this? I don't grok.


Here's an idea one approach to handling the rules:

During the launch phase, the sand casting ship chooses a target and may launch one cannister at it. If it has additional launchers, it can cover other pursuers as well with seperate cannisters. The screen gets a defense rating based on its TL and the predict program the ship is running at the time of launch.

On the attacker's turn after this... each laser hit is checked against the sand defensive rating-- if the amount the hit roll is made by is lower, it does no damage, but reduces the sand defense rating by that amount. If the ship is hit in spite of the sand, halve the sand defense rating and apply damage as normally.

Sand is only effective on the turn following its launch.

That leaves two questions.... Are missiles affected by sand clouds? Do multiple canisters against a single ship give better coverage?


Edit:

I would guess that missiles ignore sand-- you gotta shoot 'em down with point defense lasers. Also, A second sand cannister against increases the base defense by 50% and a third increases the base defense by 25%.

 

[Jeffr0]

Originally posted by WJP:
The ship's hull grid can be used to "position" the sand where needed, and without this "focusing", the cloud will dissipate rapidly.

What do you mean by this? I don't grok.


Here's an idea one approach to handling the rules:

During the launch phase, the sand casting ship chooses a target and may launch one cannister at it. If it has additional launchers, it can cover other pursuers as well with seperate cannisters. The screen gets a defense rating based on its TL and the predict program the ship is running at the time of launch.

On the attacker's turn after this... each laser hit is checked against the sand defensive rating-- if the amount the hit roll is made by is lower, it does no damage, but reduces the sand defense rating by that amount. If the ship is hit in spite of the sand, halve the sand defense rating and apply damage as normally.

Sand is only effective on the turn following its launch.

That leaves two questions.... Are missiles affected by sand clouds? Do multiple canisters against a single ship give better coverage?


Edit:

I would guess that missiles ignore sand-- you gotta shoot 'em down with point defense lasers. Also, A second sand cannister against increases the base defense by 50% and a third increases the base defense by 25%.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Jeffr0:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by WJP:
The ship's hull grid can be used to "position" the sand where needed, and without this "focusing", the cloud will dissipate rapidly.

What do you mean by this? I don't grok.</font>[/QUOTE]Man, I hate it when my grok broadcaster doesn't work.

Consider this...

The ship's hull grid is used for a couple of things.

(1) The grid is what's used to tear open normal space, allowing transition into jump space.

(2) The grid is how a ship is "steered" in J-Space. There are no course corrections in J-Space, of course, but a ship's course is set by the power distribution on the jump grid. It's like a rudder, stuck in one position, on a small boat as it floats down a stream--the rudder only gets to be in one position, but you get to choose it's position (and if your navigation is correct, you'll have thought about where your rudder will steer your boat and be able to predict, within reason, where you will hit shore).

(3) The grid is also used to form the ship's jump bubble, the energy field that protects the ship during it's journey through J-Space.


What I'm positing is this: The jobs that a ship's hull grid is supposed to do (above) infers either gravitic technology or electro-magnetic tech (probably both).

Traveller's use of AntiGrav tech, and that technology's control over the graviton and the weak/strong gravitational force, has got to be at play when that hole is ripped between N-Space and J-Space, allowing entrance of the ship. We're talking about warping space here.

And, some form of EM focusing is probably at play as well, in directing the energy where we want it (on the hull grid as the grid determines the ship's course through J-Space or when the grid is used to form the J-Bubble).

Therefore, some small use of the ship's hull grid will include using it as an EM manipulator--a magnetic "focuser" if you will.

Sand slogged from a sandcaster is not beach sand but some type of reflective, ablative material. Maybe it's a type of ceramic (think of the tough shiny road titties we see on the freeweay).

If magnetic particals were included in the mix of whatever sand is made out of, then a magnetic focusing device could be used to shift sand particles to desired locations around the hull.

So, my idea about the use of sandcasters is this: A depth-charge like cannister is slung at low velocity just outside the ship so that it matches the speed and direction of the vessel. The cannister then pops and spews its contents in a sand blob. The magnetic focusing aspect of the ship's hull grid is then used to grab the sand blob and place it where-ever desired.

The ship's gunner decides how best to defend the ship, but if an enemy vessel is 12 degrees port, negative 23 degrees Y axis, then it's elementary that you want your sand cloud (think of a shield used in melee combat) floating just below the left side of the ship's bow. Any incoming fire from that enemy vessel will have to pass through the positioning of the sand cloud in order to hit the ship.

Now, this can be taken one step further. The gunner could program the ship's computer to manipulate the ship's hull grid to keep the sand cloud covering that position (in-between the ship and the enemy) no matter the orientation of the ship.

So, if the ship needs to flip over and slow down, or spin on its axis so that another turret faces the enemy, the ship's hull grid will keep that sand cloud in between the ship and the enemy at all times.

I'm pretty doggone sure this is how the sand caster is going to work in my game, anyway.

And, this definition doesn't violate any of the (thin) canon data on the use of sand casters.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Jeffr0:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by WJP:
The ship's hull grid can be used to "position" the sand where needed, and without this "focusing", the cloud will dissipate rapidly.

What do you mean by this? I don't grok.</font>[/QUOTE]Man, I hate it when my grok broadcaster doesn't work.

Consider this...

The ship's hull grid is used for a couple of things.

(1) The grid is what's used to tear open normal space, allowing transition into jump space.

(2) The grid is how a ship is "steered" in J-Space. There are no course corrections in J-Space, of course, but a ship's course is set by the power distribution on the jump grid. It's like a rudder, stuck in one position, on a small boat as it floats down a stream--the rudder only gets to be in one position, but you get to choose it's position (and if your navigation is correct, you'll have thought about where your rudder will steer your boat and be able to predict, within reason, where you will hit shore).

(3) The grid is also used to form the ship's jump bubble, the energy field that protects the ship during it's journey through J-Space.


What I'm positing is this: The jobs that a ship's hull grid is supposed to do (above) infers either gravitic technology or electro-magnetic tech (probably both).

Traveller's use of AntiGrav tech, and that technology's control over the graviton and the weak/strong gravitational force, has got to be at play when that hole is ripped between N-Space and J-Space, allowing entrance of the ship. We're talking about warping space here.

And, some form of EM focusing is probably at play as well, in directing the energy where we want it (on the hull grid as the grid determines the ship's course through J-Space or when the grid is used to form the J-Bubble).

Therefore, some small use of the ship's hull grid will include using it as an EM manipulator--a magnetic "focuser" if you will.

Sand slogged from a sandcaster is not beach sand but some type of reflective, ablative material. Maybe it's a type of ceramic (think of the tough shiny road titties we see on the freeweay).

If magnetic particals were included in the mix of whatever sand is made out of, then a magnetic focusing device could be used to shift sand particles to desired locations around the hull.

So, my idea about the use of sandcasters is this: A depth-charge like cannister is slung at low velocity just outside the ship so that it matches the speed and direction of the vessel. The cannister then pops and spews its contents in a sand blob. The magnetic focusing aspect of the ship's hull grid is then used to grab the sand blob and place it where-ever desired.

The ship's gunner decides how best to defend the ship, but if an enemy vessel is 12 degrees port, negative 23 degrees Y axis, then it's elementary that you want your sand cloud (think of a shield used in melee combat) floating just below the left side of the ship's bow. Any incoming fire from that enemy vessel will have to pass through the positioning of the sand cloud in order to hit the ship.

Now, this can be taken one step further. The gunner could program the ship's computer to manipulate the ship's hull grid to keep the sand cloud covering that position (in-between the ship and the enemy) no matter the orientation of the ship.

So, if the ship needs to flip over and slow down, or spin on its axis so that another turret faces the enemy, the ship's hull grid will keep that sand cloud in between the ship and the enemy at all times.

I'm pretty doggone sure this is how the sand caster is going to work in my game, anyway.

And, this definition doesn't violate any of the (thin) canon data on the use of sand casters.

 

[Supplement Four]

Sandcasters....

CT says sand is fired in 50 kg cannisters.

Special Sup 3 says that standardized missiles mass 50 kg.

Could it be that a sandcaster is just a low velocity missile launcher?

Do you think that sand casters are just missiles with a "sand" payload?

I wonder if, in a pinch, ship's crew could jury-rig the sandcaster to fire normal missiles?

 

[Supplement Four]

Sandcasters....

CT says sand is fired in 50 kg cannisters.

Special Sup 3 says that standardized missiles mass 50 kg.

Could it be that a sandcaster is just a low velocity missile launcher?

Do you think that sand casters are just missiles with a "sand" payload?

I wonder if, in a pinch, ship's crew could jury-rig the sandcaster to fire normal missiles?

 

[fredofmars]

Originally posted by Jeffr0:
<snip>Are missiles affected by sand clouds? <snip> I would guess that missiles ignore sand-- you gotta shoot 'em down with point defense lasers.<snip>

In High Guard, missiles do have to penetrate sand as well as anti-missile energy weapon fire. I think this is the case in B2 and TNE combat too, but I don't have those handy.

 

[fredofmars]

Originally posted by Jeffr0:
<snip>Are missiles affected by sand clouds? <snip> I would guess that missiles ignore sand-- you gotta shoot 'em down with point defense lasers.<snip>

In High Guard, missiles do have to penetrate sand as well as anti-missile energy weapon fire. I think this is the case in B2 and TNE combat too, but I don't have those handy.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by WJP:
The ship's hull grid can be used to "position" the sand where needed, and without this "focusing", the cloud will dissipate rapidly. I'm leaning that way--sticks to CT canon and somewhat makes sense.

WJP,

Sticks to CT canon? Where exactly in CT are hull grids mentioned?

The jump ship in S:9 has a 'special field cables' with which it can enfold cargo, but I know of no mention of hull grids in CT.

MegaTraveller on the other hand talks about hull grids all the time...


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by WJP:
The ship's hull grid can be used to "position" the sand where needed, and without this "focusing", the cloud will dissipate rapidly. I'm leaning that way--sticks to CT canon and somewhat makes sense.

WJP,

Sticks to CT canon? Where exactly in CT are hull grids mentioned?

The jump ship in S:9 has a 'special field cables' with which it can enfold cargo, but I know of no mention of hull grids in CT.

MegaTraveller on the other hand talks about hull grids all the time...


Have fun,
Bill

 

[aramis]

Well, there has to be something besides the capacitors used...
0.5%MJn capacitors, thus an energy storage of 18%MJn EP, and a need of 2%MJn EP to jump.... Talk about over-engineering... 9x the requisite capacitor banks! (HG, 2d ed... sections on BGG's and on Jumping.)

Of course, Bk5 lacking Jump Drives on the Surface table is equally inconclusive: MT lacks them as well.

 

[aramis]

Well, there has to be something besides the capacitors used...
0.5%MJn capacitors, thus an energy storage of 18%MJn EP, and a need of 2%MJn EP to jump.... Talk about over-engineering... 9x the requisite capacitor banks! (HG, 2d ed... sections on BGG's and on Jumping.)

Of course, Bk5 lacking Jump Drives on the Surface table is equally inconclusive: MT lacks them as well.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Joseph Kimball:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jeffr0:
<snip>Are missiles affected by sand clouds? <snip> I would guess that missiles ignore sand-- you gotta shoot 'em down with point defense lasers.<snip>

In High Guard, missiles do have to penetrate sand as well as anti-missile energy weapon fire. I think this is the case in B2 and TNE combat too, but I don't have those handy. </font>[/QUOTE]In Special Supplement 3: Missiles, a missile zooming through a sand cloud will be disabled on a roll of 12+.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Joseph Kimball:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jeffr0:
<snip>Are missiles affected by sand clouds? <snip> I would guess that missiles ignore sand-- you gotta shoot 'em down with point defense lasers.<snip>

In High Guard, missiles do have to penetrate sand as well as anti-missile energy weapon fire. I think this is the case in B2 and TNE combat too, but I don't have those handy. </font>[/QUOTE]In Special Supplement 3: Missiles, a missile zooming through a sand cloud will be disabled on a roll of 12+.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by WJP:
The ship's hull grid can be used to "position" the sand where needed, and without this "focusing", the cloud will dissipate rapidly. I'm leaning that way--sticks to CT canon and somewhat makes sense.

WJP,

Sticks to CT canon? Where exactly in CT are hull grids mentioned?

The jump ship in S:9 has a 'special field cables' with which it can enfold cargo, but I know of no mention of hull grids in CT.

MegaTraveller on the other hand talks about hull grids all the time...


Have fun,
Bill </font>[/QUOTE]The point was that sandcasters are pretty vague in CT (or, really, any version of Traveller), and the explanation I'm using doesn't break any CT canon.

The field cables on the jump ship in S9 are, imo, flexible hull grid lines (hull grid not on a hull).

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by WJP:
The ship's hull grid can be used to "position" the sand where needed, and without this "focusing", the cloud will dissipate rapidly. I'm leaning that way--sticks to CT canon and somewhat makes sense.

WJP,

Sticks to CT canon? Where exactly in CT are hull grids mentioned?

The jump ship in S:9 has a 'special field cables' with which it can enfold cargo, but I know of no mention of hull grids in CT.

MegaTraveller on the other hand talks about hull grids all the time...


Have fun,
Bill </font>[/QUOTE]The point was that sandcasters are pretty vague in CT (or, really, any version of Traveller), and the explanation I'm using doesn't break any CT canon.

The field cables on the jump ship in S9 are, imo, flexible hull grid lines (hull grid not on a hull).