Navigator/Sensors Operator - a crew position imtu
Edit: I make Engineer Mech/Elec +
Seats on a STARSHIP BRIDGE
- Thread starter atpollard
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Edit: I make Engineer Mech/Elec +
casquilho
SOC-13
In one game I played, the Navigator was the owner/captain of the ship. Was not the norm for sure, but it was an interesting character the player ended up with, so we ran with it.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
The way I'd handle it is this.
All line officers need to know astrogation/zero.
An officer can opt to specialize in astrogation, with fleet astrogator being the pinnacle of that career path.
You could have a physician minor in astrology and astrogation, to help diagnosis and treatment.
All line officers need to know astrogation/zero.
An officer can opt to specialize in astrogation, with fleet astrogator being the pinnacle of that career path.
You could have a physician minor in astrology and astrogation, to help diagnosis and treatment.
Going with the flow is a good way to do it, I like the unexpected in that makes things more interesting. Nav sens ops is also e dub in battle, and per LBB2 is good at knocking down flights of missiles.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
No argument from me on navigator normal space maneuver.
Except ... long range sensors operation is explicitly mentioned in the writeup for the navigation skill in LBB1.81.
LBB1.81, p21 (bold added to draw attention to relevant passage):
My personal interpretation of this is that pilots are "adequate" for short range (12 hours or less) voyages that can be undertaken by small/big craft. Even at orbital velocities, voyages of less than 12 hours can be "handled" just fine by pilots since everything is (effectively) "short range" in navigation terms.
Note that ~12 hours is typically plenty of time to maneuver out of "most" jump shadows in order to reach a jump point. So for many interstellar starships of 200 tons or less, there is rarely a "need" for a navigator. A large majority of planet to moon or even moon to moon transits within orbit of a single planet can be undertaken in less than 12 hours, so "local" transfers can be handled just fine by pilots. Additionally, interplanetary charter prices (Cr1 per ton per hour) have a minimum of 12 hours built into their pricing (LBB2.81, p9) ... which isn't a coincidence.
It's when you start getting beyond 12+ hours of voyage time on maneuver drive that you start needing navigators to plot your courses to keep your craft on track to reach your destination (reliably). Thus, any interplanetary craft (or even just small craft with a stateroom to extend crew endurance beyond 12-24 hours of life support reserves) will need to have a navigator (if operating solo/independently). This has implications for system defense boats and fighters, which may need to conduct long duration patrols and/or distant rendezvous from their base of operations or parent craft. In a carrier type context, the navigator aboard the carrier can provide the necessary skill to support patrol operations of fighters and sub-craft while those sub-craft are (effectively) "tethered" or otherwise in communication range to the carrier. However, if those sub-craft are assigned missions that take them more than 12 hours maneuver time away from their parent carrier and/or require them to be operating independently (silent running, etc.) then navigation skill becomes important for those crews operating at those distances and they can't rely on the navigator "back on the carrier" to provide that skill to them.
Point being that navigation skill isn't JUST relevant to interstellar jumping ... it can also be highly relevant to long range interplanetary reconnaissance and survey missions, deep strike/long loiter time mission tasking for system defense fleet maneuvers, along with a whole host of other applications ranging from prospecting/mining to search & rescue to salvage & recovery operations. Knowing WHERE you are and WHERE YOU'RE GOING over time frames of longer than 12 hours become excruciatingly important when making (longer) transits in normal space under maneuver drive power (which, I know, most Players, Referees and Campaign Settings all too conveniently ignore in favor of the more "sexy" jump drive stuff).
Your mileage may vary, of course.
Point being that navigators are not a "waste of a stateroom" and an unwanted expense (crew salary and life support) that get "foisted" upon starships over 200 tons for "no reason" whatsoever. Navigators enable craft to operate more than 12 hours of maneuver acceleration distant from any base of operations or otherwise "known" location (such as planets/moons). They aren't JUST a "permission slip" needed to be able to jump.
Hadn’t noted the quoted RAW, but had considered the planetary body sort of sensor work vs the target solution work gunners do.
Perhaps better is -2 for gunners to do navigation sensors and -2 for navigators to do targeting, pilots -1 for either.
Scouts get a lot of JoT so skip the penalties, in keeping with their one man crew vibe.
Electronics guys get no negatives for either, cause I like military and carefully assembled/skilled crew having an edge and big on everyone having a role/roll. Which means at least a third seat for sensor/comms guy.
One could consider seat configuration as a bonus/negative. Say universal configurable seats divide skill bonus by half round down, dedicated role seats get full bonus because they have specific controls and higher quality displays then the iPad 2D stuff.
I would expect a mix of seat types and max seat count for all hands operations as opposed to just two. Fewer seats on the smaller hulls and a lot of automation allowing those one pilot/one ship operations.
Plus bridge damage, but that’s more an IMTU thing where damage is by the ton so bridges can be partially smashed but still operational.
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Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Yea, but don't go to a doctor that says he's psionic and specializes in psychic surgery!
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Of course, there are parts of known space and within the Imperium where you do need your crew performing jumps and such to be paid members of the Spacefairer's Union and Brotherhood of Space Workers. They require a licensed pilot, navigator, engineer, and radioman (aka communications specialist but still called radioman, the archaic term out of historical pride in the profession and all that) on board your ship to operate it in closed shop systems where everyone MUST be a union member. If you don't have union members, they can be hired locally for going, standard, wage, along with a small penalty fee while you're in-system...
The universe might have started with a Big Bang, but it runs on an even bigger bureaucracy!
The universe might have started with a Big Bang, but it runs on an even bigger bureaucracy!
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I usually think of the medic as being more like the part time scientist like Master and Commander or Alien. On commercial small starships perhaps a backup steward.
I use Investigation skill as both detective/interrogation/LE and primary science research, so arguably medical skill should have a component of that. Maybe a default skill for the Scientist career too, and commission skill for LE.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
This is one of those things where people just ASSUME things because of how they're done in (real world) commercial aviation and nautical practices.
Captain of the Ship is pretty standard in wet naval contexts.
Pilot in Command is pretty standard in aviation.
When you have modest tonnages of craft (think ACS for our purposes), the "captain" of any particular starship will often times HAVE TO BE a bridge officer ... of which there are only 2 choices ... pilot and navigator in terms of LBB2 crew manning requirements.
Depending on the interpersonal dynamics of the crew, I would argue that either the pilot or the navigator can be the Captain Who Gives The Orders while the starship is in flight.
The pilot is the "short range driver" for the craft ... while the navigator is the "big picture" person, who needs to know where all the stars and planets are in relation to the starship, so as to get everyone where they need to go. There's nothing which says the pilot MUST BE the Captain Who Gives The Orders that everyone else is obliged to follow.
Mind you, pilots will often times be assumed to be the Captain In Command, but that isn't always going to be the case. Sometimes, there can be an Owner Aboard who makes all the "big decisions" and then the bridge crew (along with everyone else) makes everything happen. Note that since the Hunter career can yield a starship as a mustering out benefit, but the Hunter career (in LBB S4) offers no skills that are "crew position relevant" to starship operations, the Hunter winds up being an Owner Aboard their own starship with chain of command decision process ultimately being the responsibility of the Hunter, not a bridge officer (who would just be an officer of the watch).
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Depends on how much slack you have in crewing.
I thought about it, and a sensor operator's task is to identify immediate threats to the ship, while an astrogator's would be, when not calculating a transition, is to identify (astro)navigational hazards.
If there are duties that require little attention in most events, than you can corral them to crew that mostly appear to have little to do.
I thought about it, and a sensor operator's task is to identify immediate threats to the ship, while an astrogator's would be, when not calculating a transition, is to identify (astro)navigational hazards.
If there are duties that require little attention in most events, than you can corral them to crew that mostly appear to have little to do.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
US trains actually haven the dynamic of the engineer being the pilot, the fireman being the assistant engineer being the backup pilot and traditionally shoveling coal on steam, and the conductor being the actual captain of the train with purser responsibility in handling the cargo manifest on freight and passengers on passenger trains.
These roles have compressed as crewing gets smaller and railcar management/paperwork has gone online but still obtains on many roads.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
On that immediate hazards one, I figure the Auto Evade program is running on most ships that can afford it to dodge surprise dark/uncharted rocks/debris.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
You could probably automate the sensors/proximity alert.
Interpreting that data might be the crewman's job, including stuff that the automated sensors dismissed, or falsely alarmed.
Interpreting that data might be the crewman's job, including stuff that the automated sensors dismissed, or falsely alarmed.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
With me, I figure this stuff is charted in A and B systems and there's a traffic control system in place as well. You aren't allowed to 'fly' willie nilly all around the system as you please. If you try that, someone is going to make you have a miserable day or thirty involving lawyers, jail, and other legal issues.
In C - systems, there's far less traffic and the starport-- if there is one-- is unregulated. Of course, you are also taking your chances there and if you should be in a small ship (ie, the sort that players use) and disappear, die, or whatever, that's on you.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Traffic control might be overworked.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
That's a type E starport, not a type C.
My own personal interpretation is that type C starports are capable of handling starship traffic but they're primarily oriented around interplanetary craft, as opposed to interstellar. For a star system that is building out its population and commercial infrastructure, a type C starport is perfectly adequate, but it's a hex on the subsector map that is looking more inwards than outwards beyond the local star system.
To put things into a familiar Solomani frame of reference, Terra has colonies on Mars, the Planetoid Belt, Jupiter's and Saturn's moons, so there's some interplanetary trade and transport going on and that "local" traffic is the majority of what a type C starport is handling.
Type D starports are even "more local" affairs.
Think single world and its moons (if any) are the jurisdiction of a type D starport. Go beyond that locality and You're On Your Own.
Type C starports are "local star system" affairs, so think multiplanetary rather than just single planet (and moons, if any) in terms of reach and resources.
Type E ... is "so local" that you're lucky if the landing spots are paved (that's how "local" and thus austere they are).
Type X = "what's a starport?"
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
I see a C as a small regional airport today. They only handle space traffic landing and taking off. Once you're away from the immediate vicinity of the spaceport, or extra-atmospheric, you're on your own.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
To be fair, that's substantially the case everywhere. It's not like the starport has direct jurisdiction (let alone monitoring) over all of the space in a star system.
The difference is that type A and B starports will typically host system defense assets that keep the space lanes (such as they are) patrolled and the people using them "honest" in their dealings. There's enough system defense to "chase away" (almost all) pirates.
Type C starports are where you get some system defense assets, but they're "spotty" and can't be everywhere all at once (so to speak). You start running into "tyranny of distance" problems (ala the Pacific Ocean for our more nautical minded readers) and the sheer scale of the volumes of space that need to be protected means that you can't protect everyone at all times, creating "gaps" in system defense patrol coverage ... which then makes it easier for pirates to operate (and masquerade as system defense). The "spread" of the volume of space is the problem and there just isn't enough infrastructure built out yet to police all of that space (yet).
Type D starports are a lot like type C, except that the space lanes are a LOT shorter (local planetary instead of interplanetary). This means that you can have a higher density of system defense per volume of space while ALSO having a smaller system defense force. The reduction in volume of space to patrol is simply that important in terms of coverage. Additionally, since the traffic patterns tend to be more of a single planet plus moons (if any) rather than interplanetary, what little interplanetary traffic there is happens so rarely/infrequently that there just "aren't enough pickings" out there making interplanetary voyages (on the regular) to sustain any would be pirates. Hence why you're unlikely to get a pirate result at a type D starport (and if you do, it's an overly ambitious/bored Scout/Courier with a delusional sense of grandeur, according to LBB2).
Type E starports ... anywhere above the lithosphere is "you're on your own" territory. If you're lucky, they might have fire trucks (trucks!) at the LZ ... and that's about it (because even the provision of fuel cannot be guaranteed).
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Starports are under Imperium jurisdiction, so you must have really offended someone to be assigned to an Epsilon.
