Self Propelled Machinegun

[Todg]

Earlier conversations about how nice it is to have a heavy machinegun or motar when an infantry unit runs into trouble got me thinking. The problem with a heavy machinegun or mortar is that you have to carry the dang thing. This is not such an issue when you are mechanized, but is a real problem for light infantry.

Realizing that this is Traveller, I though "why not make it self propelled"? Which lead to the following concept: a Very simple robot gun platform - really nothing more than an automated mule, carrying a support weapon or two. It wouldn't have to be particularly 'intelligent' or sophisticated, because the weapons could be layed or controlled by the squad it was attached to. It could also be used to carry some equipment, or evacuate a wounded tropper to the rear. It could be used for scouting dangerous areas.

I originally called this the BAAR (Battlefield Autonomous Armored Robot). About the size and shap of a terran bear, the robot travel on 4 medium 'legs' allowing it to cover any terrain that a human can manage. The head is equipped with a variety of sensors and fitted with a 10mm heavy machinegun fed from a 1000 round ammunition store in the body. The body is also fitted with a 40mm gun/motar with autoloaded and capable of delivering a variety of ammunition types from and internal store of 100 round of mixed ammunition. There are also 4 external attachement for mounting light anti-armor missiles, as well as external tie-down for carrying additional equipment.

In an emergency, a litter can be suspened under the body of the robot and will accomodate one casualty.

The robot has minimal independence, and will normally have an assigned operator. It can peform simple tasks, and fire it's weapons under direction, either by sedning it a coordinate, or by marking a target with tracer fire of electroic painting device. It should be able to operate for extended periods without refueling. It should have armor capable of defeating all small arms.

I'm going to try and build with using CT robot rules. Anyone else care to take a whack?

Comments? suggestions?

Bear in mind that this is supposed to be a relatively low tech piece of equipment.

 

[Colin]

I used a similar sort of thing, in another game system. Called it a "Gundog", had a 9mm chaingun (9mm short gatling) with a second hardpoint that could mount a single weapon, but usually didn't. Never thought of the casevac angle, though.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Our SHOPS Agents (The Sidur Haski Outsystem Partol Service, Known Space's Politest Mercenary Arm...) uses a mobile Grav platform with a switchable twin Medium artillery laser, or triple MRL on a pintel... by having the gunner phyically control the firing arc, it saves on additional turret space/cost... settles a lot of arguments with the unruly...

 

[kaladorn]

Comments:

Hope your data security is good. You should have a wire-operated version (if security of the airlink is a concern) that uses a fiber-optic cable to a control (think early RC cars and some minesweeping bots).

Also, it would be handy to have straps for a litter on each side of the bot (like the evac helos in mash).

Also, it would be handy to have a standard 'hitch' assembly and perhaps even a PTO.

The hitch would allow the hauling of additional ammo and equipment mini-trailers or sledges.

The PTO could offer a variety of benefits, in terms of driving other mech equipment. (Generator, radio, etc)

Otherwise, interesting idea.

It also better be able to go prone, etc. in order to go 'in position' and ideally the weapon would be situated on about an 8' extensible mast, to allow it to fire turret down.

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
Hope your data security is good. You should have a wire-operated version (if security of the airlink is a concern) that uses a fiber-optic cable to a control (think early RC cars and some minesweeping bots).

I envisioned local vocal command and secure FO link only. Radio control is just asking for trouble, although you might have some kind of local, encrypted, spread spectrum stuff.

Also, it would be handy to have straps for a litter on each side of the bot (like the evac helos in mash).

I put the litter mount under the 'body' so that there would be some protection for the wounded soldier, but you could certainly do it another way.

Also, it would be handy to have a standard 'hitch' assembly and perhaps even a PTO.

The hitch would allow the hauling of additional ammo and equipment mini-trailers or sledges.

The PTO could offer a variety of benefits, in terms of driving other mech equipment. (Generator, radio, etc)

Great thought! Added to the design.

It also better be able to go prone, etc. in order to go 'in position' and ideally the weapon would be situated on about an 8' extensible mast, to allow it to fire turret down.

I assumed the ability to 'go prone', something like a camel laying down. Mast is an interesting idea, but where do you put it. I'm trying to keep the size down to bear or even donkey - someone used the term 'gun dog'.

By mounting the GL on the crest of the back, and the MG in the 'head' the idea was to allow it to fire frome enfilade. I'm envisioning this as a squad support weapon, replacing the GPMG. There would be an operator and co-operator who would be responsible for directing the unit and servicing it. The guys who used to be the machine gunner and assistant gunner.

 

[kaladorn]

You might manage a 4' telescoping mast. That, combined with a 4' chassis height, might well give you the 8' to shoot over walls.

I was thinking you mount the MG on a mast from the back/crest (I've got pictures which I can't distribute of LAV vehicles with about a 60' EW jammer mast on them and a smaller version seems feasible) and you put your mortar as firing out through the head (feed through the throat).

Then the MG can 'pop up' with only MG + sensor visible (Kiowa style - and if you hook in a laser GL, it could designate for incoming arty or GMS/TAC Missiles too). And the mortar, because the neck is articulated, can hinge up to fire from turret down and even get a certain degree of left and right traverse without the need to reorient the main body.

Voice command in a firefight? Eeek.

I'd think local crypto/spread spectrum with the gunner, asst gunner, and section ldr having control codes. Update regulary. FO cable is backup or alternate in zones where a high level of comms insecurity is expected (high tech foes).

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by kaladorn:

Voice command in a firefight? Eeek.

You know, just like the infantry uses.

The ability to interpret hand signals would be useful too.

When the bullets are flying I don't want soldiers to have to type commands into a console.

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
You might manage a 4' telescoping mast. That, combined with a 4' chassis height, might well give you the 8' to shoot over walls.

I wonder how big the mast would have to be to absorb recoil from a heavy machinegun. And you'd have to have 4 feet of flexible feed and belt.

I still have to run the numbers anyway so we'll see how it works out.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

It's an interesting idea, but it sounds horribly complicated and expensive.

 

[Jame]

What about a "pilot's station" for an infantryman to take local control if necessary? Maybe it's the kind that can fold up into the rest of the body?

 

[jwcarroll60]

Limited parameter AI programming with IFF would allow autonomous operations when it is too hot for a dedicated operator. Limited orders could be programmed in such as: partol area (designate area), follow and give fire support to Pltn A, Move to (designate objective) engage any hostiles enroute then engage objective if occupied by hostiles. Just a thought.

 

[Jame]

It may be just a thought, but it's a good one.

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by jwcarroll60:
Limited parameter AI programming with IFF would allow autonomous operations when it is too hot for a dedicated operator. Limited orders could be programmed in such as: partol area (designate area), follow and give fire support to Pltn A, Move to (designate objective) engage any hostiles enroute then engage objective if occupied by hostiles. Just a thought.

Anyone remember the old Prowler autonomous patrol vehicle? It did most of those things with 1980s technology. The main difference being it was much larger and used wheels.

http://www.spawar.navy.mil/robots/land/robart/prowler.jpg

IIRC, one even made an appearance on a Chuck Norris movie

I found the following info on the Prowler:

"Robot Defense Systems PROWLER:

The first outdoor robotic sentry/surveillance system was the PROWLER (Programmable Robot Observer With Logical Enemy Response), developed between 1983-1985 by Robot Defense Systems (RDS) out of Thornton, CO. The PROWLER was initially implemented as a purely tele-operated vehicle, based on Standard Manufacturing’s diesel-powered six-wheeled hydrostatic-drive chassis (Figure 3). RDS subscribed to an incremental evolutionary upgrade approach to allow near-term deployment of limited-capability PROWLER vehicles in very structured operating conditions, with increased sophistication intended for follow-on applications as the supporting technologies matured.

The daunting task of achieving an autonomous navigation capability in an outdoor environment prior to the advent of a practical global positioning system (GPS) capability was effectively bounded by constraining initial applications to very structured road- or fence-following scenarios. In 1985 the PROWLER successfully demonstrated an ability to autonomously follow a non-linear 500-foot fence line in a test for the US Army at Fort Lewis, WA. The chain link fence was slightly modified through insertion of retro-reflective strips to facilitate detection by the PROWLER’s side-looking laser rangefinder. Application-specific security sensors included a turret-mounted surveillance camera that could be vertically extended up to 28 feet using a special telescoping mast.

The evolutionary-upgrade philosophy adopted by the RDS engineering team, geared towards gradually enhancing the autonomy of their initially tele-operated remote platform as the supporting technologies advanced, was clearly the correct approach from a technical perspective. But transitioning from a start-up role initially funded by small business grants to the production of a viable revenue-generating product was a tough row to hoe, given the technological hurdles of the time. The company filed Chapter 11 in 1986 after an unpaid supplier forced the firm into involuntary liquidation."

I selected legs since that would give the machine much more maneuverability. A two legged robot that was capable of carrying a person was recently demontrated in Japan. Primitive four-legged robots have been a reality since the mid 1980s

http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/leglab/robots/quadruped/quadruped.html

It looks like the BAAR, or simple 'gundog' could be build at relatively low tech. I'm going to try building it under CTs 'Robots' rules and will post the results here.

For further redaing, check out

http://www.spawar.navy.mil/robots/land/robart/spie96.html

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by Colin:
I used a similar sort of thing, in another game system. Called it a "Gundog", had a 9mm chaingun (9mm short gatling) with a second hardpoint that could mount a single weapon, but usually didn't. Never thought of the casevac angle, though.

I like the term 'Gundog'. With you permission, I'll adopt it.

 

[justacaveman]

I have a variety of T20 weapon designs such as Auto-grenade launchers, and heavy gauss machineguns etc, that would be useful on such a platform.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I remember something like this from the CT Alien Supplement on the Zhodani. Don't the Zhodani use them extensively in their infantry, something like one combat robot per soldier? And the Zho unit uses antigrav. Not sure about the weapons used.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Corejob:
The ability to interpret hand signals would be useful too.

When the bullets are flying I don't want soldiers to have to type commands into a console.

You mean voice command over radio or something though? Even getting people to talk clearly in a firefight can be tough. (for the same reasons keyboarding can be tough)

I had in mind more of a simple touchscreen control that was easy to follow and use even if 'excited'.

Keep in mind, anyone wearing combat armour or BD must already have to work toggles, etc when in combat.

Hand signals are good too.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Corejob:
I wonder how big the mast would have to be to absorb recoil from a heavy machinegun. And you'd have to have 4 feet of flexible feed and belt.

Depends on a couple of factors.
1. Mass of the vehicle
2. Vehicle Suspension (how stiff, or is this an adjustable parameter)
3. How much the computer can compensate (forex, if the muzzle climbs up and right, if the computer servos it down and left at the same time...)
4. The width of the vehicle (a wider vehicle would be more stable, I'd guess)

 

[Golan2072]

My CT-LBB8 attempts to create similar robots (actually Aliens-style portable sentry guns) seemed quite expensive, especially when small robots are intended to use under fire (one PGMP-12 shot and Cr30,000 go down the drain). But I may still try to give your "robo-dog" a try.

If your infantry is mechanized, the HMG/mortar support could easily be provided by the IFV/APC carrying the squad; the robo-dog, though, will be useful when the troopers dismount to enter a building which the IFV can't enter. It won't need a mortar, but a HMG will be nice to have inside a building/bunker/cave/enemy ship.

 

[Piper]

Try this link for some ideas.