Send in the Clones!!!

[solomanidude]

Just thought I would post about it since Traveller is as old as Star Wars if not older and they have alot of simularities.

Clones: Such as the Clone Troopers and Storm Troopers.

I have run a game with the use of clone soldiers, pilots, and starship crews.

Since when I ran this back in 1984-85 I didn't know Jango Fette was the Clone Trooper Father. I did however know that the Mandarin Armor type was borrowed for the clones.

I once read where someone actually recreated the starwars characters for traveller but I can't find that sight any longer however.

My clones where TL-14 however and a base cost is 100,000Cr per clone + 50,000 per added type thus a NCO cost 150,000, a pilot 200,000, and a science specialist 250,000. This doesnt include room and board however, which will amount to 20% the value of the clone.

The Clone bank took 2 years to build for 10,000 troopers and cost 100MegaCredits and required a staff of 2000 which also cost 10 Megacredits annually. So as you can see this was expensive just for 9 months in a test tube and incubator.

It took them half the time to reach maturity for thier professions however. There bodies where programmed to slow down after they reached there prime age category and then slowly aged like humans 2 years after there initial mature age

Soldier/Mechanics 9 years +2 (yrs)
Medic/NCO/Engineers 11 years +2
Officer/Pilot/Navigators 12 years +2
Inventors/Science Areas 15 years +2

Since not all the clones came from the same host I made the clones different that way.

I also made there stats very different.

I gave them a baseline with a base 1 to 2 (+1d2) added to each stat stats. So most would be equal but sometimes a few would be unique. I didn't have ARC type of troopers or commandos for them at that time but I would use the NCO or Officer stats for the base if I were to use them that way.

UPP
Soldier base 8 8 8 6 6 (2)
NCO base 9 9 9 8 8 (3)
Officer base 9 9 9 8 8 (4)
Mech/Tech 8 8 8 7 7 (2)
Engineer 8 8 8 8 8 (3)
Science base 8 8 8 8 8 (4)
Pilots 9 9 9 8 8 (5)

For skills: I would assign them half there INT divided by 2 rounded to whole +1 for skills for a particular job field. (roll randomly or make a chart for them)

Clone Trooper: Laser Rifle-1 Equipment Ops-1 Commo-1 and Grenade-1 (possibly Reflec-1 for repairs)

Clone Scout: Laser Rifle-1 Speeder Bike-1 Tactics-1 (Laser Pistol-1) and Observation-1

Clone NCO: Laser Rifle-2 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Admin-1 Equipment Ops-1 and 1 other weapon at 1

Clone Fighter Pilot: Ships Boat-2 Navigation-1 Tactics-1 Gunnery-1 Vacc Suit-1 Commo-1 and Laser Pistol-1

etc etc as you can see....

They could come in handy for a mega corp or some out of the ordinary planet short on troops or space forces and could be used against any advisary.

They would reap there worth when on the battlefield as they wouldnt be (drones) so they would be creative like a normal human and when it came to combat I think a little bit surperior when it came to assaulting a postion without retreating as they would be less likely to do so.

Mature Clone Soldier Purchased 1 million Credits base with 250,000 crs per class. TL-14 Age min 9 years for soldier with 18 year old looks.

Want to breed an Army?

:0

 

[Border Reiver]

Interesting and why has it not been done...perhaps both the Imperium and SolCon have been suspicious of super soldier programmes since the Gene War. In this case these were not force grown vat products but a race of genetic ubermenschen that were wiped from history by the Solomani (there are rumours that they still exist though I'll need to find the source...may even be 1248)

Star Wars characters were covered along with a number of other great science fiction characters were covered as a quiz in Supplements 1 and 4 (1001 characters and Citizens of the Imperium). Don't take them too seriously it was a bit of fun to show the flexibilty of the game.

 

[kafka47]

The Gene War, one does not even go that far into recent times. I am still wondering what gave the Terrans the edge over the Vilani during the Interstellar Wars...my answer clones which ties nicely into why the Solomani the biomasters that they are.

The super soldier was not the aim, rather it was the need for manpower. My inspiration comes more from Space: Above & Beyond rather than Star Wars. Where tankers could be developed to do the real dangerious jobs and settle the Coreward line of defence whilst the Men of Sol were taking up defensive positions in the Rim accounting for the significant difference in culture between the Rimward portion of the sphere and the outer shell that the Imperium captured. Rimward, their ties are to Terra but lost the final battle preparing constantly for the next time (sort of Mal & co in Firefly) whilst Coreward, the decendants of the clones have a loyality only to worlds they forged in battle but ultimately not to the Cause which, if truth be known, some factions would like to see them eliminated...this also accounts for the large number of dictatorships in that region.

 

[Jame]

Looks nice, I like it, and I'm stealing it! But I'm upping the SOC scores and handwaving it by saying that they're not generally known to be clones.

As an aside, I hear that the Fetts' armor is Mandalorian, not Mandarin.

 

[Ran Targas]

Hmmm, almost sounds like BR Replicants; synthetic humans, tougher, stronger, faster but barely discernable from the norm. Won't be long before they infiltrate society and take over!

I've run with the whole clone thing IMTU; effective and efficient cloning is a reality but illegal under Imperial law, largely due to the threat to Imperial authority. My Empire cares little for the human rights aspects. But clone armies or even just clone special forces teams can wreak tremendous havoc until the Empire can muster enough force to counter them.

Still, the rich can have clones secretly created for replacement parts or to preserve a dynasty; but even these, when found out, are quickly disposed of by the authorities.

Another legitimate reason for Imperial resistance to cloning is the occassional critical error compounded over thousands of clones. IMTU, several human sub-species are the results of intential geneering, some with unexpected results. One race, developed specifically to work in high G environs, carries a latent psi gene. Individually, the clones are not aware of their intrinsic psi abilities except a sort of strong racial empathy. But when grouped, their psi power is cumulative. Most of their clan leaders are effectively shaman and are able to wield the power of the whole with dramatic results. Needless to say, the Empire does not appreciate their rare talent and has purposely scattered them.

 

[jappel]

Of course, this neglects to address all the legal and ethical issues of creating slaves, which is what these cloned beings are. I think those will be the biggest stumbling block, not the technical & logistic issues (which are themselves nothing to sneer at).

Not to say it's not an interesting idea. It's just not one I'd see a "good" society implementing.

EDIT: looking at the prices you propose, I submit it's going to be a lot cheaper to train and equip normal soldiers.

- John

 

[solomanidude]

The prices are figurative as in probably will actuality cost more to set up and run the clone facilities than to actually breed the clones and raise them in a 9-11 year span. So figuratively the cost may be actually be 100,000 per clone but the education process could be much more unless the clones are subjected to memory programing. This of course is up to the referee.

The idea was to create them to be security forces first then as assault and shock troop second. The cadre and engineers taking longer to program and train as those skills would be highly demanded by a buyer or financer. Hot shot clone pilots may be more creative and thus more appreciative for duels in the sky and space.

Could you imagine Mega-Corps fighting each other with there own clone armies not just solomani or imperial owned and operated clones?

As such the Clone would not suffer aging affects for many years. So at 11 Years (actual age) they function as an 20 year old and woolah you have another 14 years before they suffer aging affects. (No not 23 years)but could be changed as needed.

So in away they would be cheaper than true human soldiers and if they are bred to resist pain, heat and cold then they are less likely to revolt and would follow orders more obediently.

Slavery and complete control yes that would be the case but think about this.

If your NPC/PCs controlled brigades or even divisions of them who is going to stand in your way for conquest? Accept other clone armies and possibly elite fighting forces (usually low in numbers) compared to the onslaught your going to initially achieve with these expendable forces. Hehe (Joking of course).

So yes I took a page from Lucas's movies/books back in the day. I also compared this to Logans Run as well for a clone theorim.

A star destroyer with 40,000 clones can't be beat!

Well the ship maybe but the sheer combat power of those 40,000 clones on a planet with the support of 1 starship and its auxillaries such as walkers or speeder types, drop ships, and assault ships/shuttles, and you get the idea "clone wars."

I see that the Republic Assault Ship "Accumulator" Class I think is 12 million tons in weight and 750 meters in length. I think for Traveller that ship would be around 500,000 tons if not a little more.

The cruiser "Venarator" class seen in the Revenge of the Sith also carried 400+ fighters and I would put at 750,000 tons and the Imperator in all the other movies at 1,000,000 million tons though they could in Traveller terms carry more crew.

However you can take the Accumulator and do this; compare her to the USS Nimitz for size and weight and get under 500,000 tons. Advanced composites, metals, alloys, and polymeres. Say a shoe in at 450,000 tons dead weight. 160,000 tons for crew and the rest all for the ship. But again these are all figurative numbers.

I am not one for converting everything in Star Wars (or any other movies) to Traveller but I know someone has already done it in their little realm of Traveller Universes. I am just giving anyone interested some ideas to include this into your campaigns as I know just basic Traveller can be boring or rather lack of detail or bare in some respects. Thats why so many versions...

I like the idea after the 1116 Rebellion when its all screwed up and they have no one to turn too (maybe Duke Norris or Strephon)and the Solomani have recaptured Earth. I like the idea of a cease fire around 1130-1140 and the Imperium and Solomani Confederation are at peace and then something completely dehumanizing takes place such as an alien invasion from outside the galaxy by aliens(not aliens from the movies) intent on human flesh... (LOL)

Something to spark the Traveller Universe to a degree that oh crap those aliens got TL 17-21 stuff and dude we are doomed....

Jump 7-36 becomes possible with a jump field generator that beams the ship ahead (hint hint Transwarp)or surrounds the current Jump envelope.

The Tachyon or Ion Cannon makes its debute at TL-16/17 and deliver twice or triple the damage of current systems.

Fusion-2 and Antimatter systems are maturing at TL-17+ where fuel may only take up 10% or even 5% of the ships volume in weight

Life support systems mature to allow 1 ton per crew member or frozen sleep is radically advanced for safer cold sleep ships.

Communications can have a hyper-jump possibly in a certain signal range where that signal can go up to Jump-72.

I mean these things would bring your game on terms with StarWars/Babylon-5/Farscape/Trek/BattlestarGalactica. etc etc

So it doesnt matter if these systems are CT MT T4 GT T20 or even T5 its all flavored as you like it...

Just some rambling.... LOL

 

[Uncle Bob]

Umm, we had clones in Murphs Traveller game, c.1982. Not troopers, though. We ran down a super-villainness (Angela, based roughly on Slippery Jim De Griz', that is the Stainless Steel Rat's, bete noir) who had been dogging the party. Finished her withg a RAM GL to the chest. Almost anti climatic.

We found out that her scheme-du-jour was a cloning operation. We never did find out what her plan was, but we unplugged the tanks.

Except one. We emptied it, and my character scooped out a little goo from Angela's armor. and restarted it. See, Angela in the game (and the book) was beautiful, wickedly intelligent, but sick and twisted. In the book she was captured, brainwashed, and Turned into a government agent.

At last report my character was an elderly single father, a retired Navy Captain, (retired Lt. Commander, reluctantly prommoted since by IN intelligence) raising a beautiful four year old girl. Who was a real handfull. I should say this game covered many years, with the characters taking time out to learn skills or make fortunes in trade.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Umm, we had clones in Murphs Traveller game, c.1982. Not troopers, though. We ran down a super-villainness (Angela, based roughly on Slippery Jim De Griz', that is the Stainless Steel Rat's, bete noir) who had been dogging the party. Finished her withg a RAM GL to the chest. Almost anti climatic.

We found out that her scheme-du-jour was a cloning operation. We never did find out what her plan was, but we unplugged the tanks.

Except one. We emptied it, and my character scooped out a little goo from Angela's armor. and restarted it. See, Angela in the game (and the book) was beautiful, wickedly intelligent, but sick and twisted. In the book she was captured, brainwashed, and Turned into a government agent.

At last report my character was an elderly single father, a retired Navy Captain, (retired Lt. Commander, reluctantly prommoted since by IN intelligence) raising a beautiful four year old girl. Who was a real handfull. I should say this game covered many years, with the characters taking time out to learn skills or make fortunes in trade.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Umm, we had clones in Murphs Traveller game, c.1982. Not troopers, though. We ran down a super-villainness (Angela, based roughly on Slippery Jim De Griz', that is the Stainless Steel Rat's, bete noir) who had been dogging the party. Finished her withg a RAM GL to the chest. Almost anti climatic.

We found out that her scheme-du-jour was a cloning operation. We never did find out what her plan was, but we unplugged the tanks.

Except one. We emptied it, and my character scooped out a little goo from Angela's armor. and restarted it. See, Angela in the game (and the book) was beautiful, wickedly intelligent, but sick and twisted. In the book she was captured, brainwashed, and Turned into a government agent.

At last report my character was an elderly single father, a retired Navy Captain, (retired Lt. Commander, reluctantly prommoted since by IN intelligence) raising a beautiful four year old girl. Who was a real handfull. I should say this game covered many years, with the characters taking time out to learn skills or make fortunes in trade.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Umm, we had clones in Murphs Traveller game, c.1982. Not troopers, though. We ran down a super-villainness (Angela, based roughly on Slippery Jim De Griz', that is the Stainless Steel Rat's, bete noir) who had been dogging the party. Finished her withg a RAM GL to the chest. Almost anti climatic.

We found out that her scheme-du-jour was a cloning operation. We never did find out what her plan was, but we unplugged the tanks.

Except one. We emptied it, and my character scooped out a little goo from Angela's armor. and restarted it. See, Angela in the game (and the book) was beautiful, wickedly intelligent, but sick and twisted. In the book she was captured, brainwashed, and Turned into a government agent.

At last report my character was an elderly single father, a retired Navy Captain, (retired Lt. Commander, reluctantly prommoted since by IN intelligence) raising a beautiful four year old girl. Who was a real handfull. I should say this game covered many years, with the characters taking time out to learn skills or make fortunes in trade.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Umm, we had clones in Murphs Traveller game, c.1982. Not troopers, though. We ran down a super-villainness (Angela, based roughly on Slippery Jim De Griz', that is the Stainless Steel Rat's, bete noir) who had been dogging the party. Finished her with a RAM GL to the chest. Almost anti climatic.

We found out that her scheme-du-jour was a cloning operation (we assumed cloning was illegal since it was not part of the OTU). We never did find out what her plan was, but we unplugged the tanks.

Except one. We emptied it, and my character scooped out a little goo from Angela's armor. and restarted it set for a non-stressful nine-month cycle. See, Angela in the game (and the book) was beautiful, wickedly intelligent, but sick and twisted. In the book she was captured, brainwashed, and Turned into an awsome government agent. My character thought that that kind of genetic potential was worth saving.

At last report my character was an elderly single father, a retired Navy Captain, (retired Lt. Commander, involuntarily prommoted since by IN intelligence) raising a beautiful four year old girl. Who was a real handfull. I should say this game covered many years, with the characters taking time out to learn skills or make fortunes in trade.

 

[MadGav]

Originally posted by SolomaniGuyHere:
...
If your NPC/PCs controlled brigades or even divisions of them who is going to stand in your way for conquest? Accept other clone armies and possibly elite fighting forces (usually low in numbers) compared to the onslaught your going to initially achieve with these expendable forces. Hehe (Joking of course).
...

Clones would be quite vulnerable to sophisticated biological warfare because they will all have identical immune systems. It would be possible to devise pathogens (possibly even at TL8, at a push) which were harmful to the clones but not to most other people. With such a weapon you could make it difficult for the clones to occupy worlds with biospheres (unless the clones enjoy being in battle dress all the time).

 

[jappel]

Hey, if you want a universe filled with clone warriors, go for it. But be careful about ideas pulled from Lucas; many of his aren't well thought through or just plain nonsensical. (For example, when the low-tech army comes out to fight in the open during Episode 1, my first thought was "Next up, the kinetic energy strike from orbit takes them out.")

I'm afraid there are many, many holes in your reasoning. I'll refrain from a point-by-point critique unless you actually want one; I'll just point out that you need to take a much better look at the economics, and your assessment of their military effectiveness is flawed. And I'll reiterate: these clones are slaves. A society that accepts them has got darkness at its heart.

Regarding your other changes: hey, I'm all about a home brew TU (see my sig). But the milieus you're holding up have very different sets of core assumptions than Traveller, and at some point you're playing a very different game.

But if you and your players are having fun, go for it.

- John

 

[Ran Targas]

Originally posted by MadGav:
Clones would be quite vulnerable to sophisticated biological warfare because they will all have identical immune systems.

Excellent point! Must include some sort of Triceraton (TMNT) ability or parasitic organism to allow rapid adaptation to varying atmospheres.

I mean, if your genetic engineering skills are sufficient to create custom clones, then you should be able to tinker with their innards!

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Uncle Bob, how many of you are there posting? Have you already got some cloning going on? Some guy from MoJ was looking for you yesterday, and some guy with a Solomani accent just left here, headed your way....

 

[Ptah]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MadGav:
Clones would be quite vulnerable to sophisticated biological warfare because they will all have identical immune systems.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excellent point! Must include some sort of Triceraton (TMNT) ability or parasitic organism to allow rapid adaptation to varying atmospheres.

I mean, if your genetic engineering skills are sufficient to create custom clones, then you should be able to tinker with their innards!

Quite true. Maybe one can gentically engineer a virus or protein that is DNA specific. Deadly to all the clones as they have the same DNA, relatively harmless to others.

Has anyone mentioned the wisdom of creating a race of uberslaves and entrusting them with your military and starship assets? How long before they decide they should be the masters and not the slaves?

 

[Ran Targas]

^T R U E

Always make sure to build in a fail safe.

"4 year life span"?. Just how much trouble can a clone wreak in just 4 years?

 

[jappel]

I assume that was a Bladerunner reference, Ran?

 

[Ran Targas]

Of course