Ship Weapon Thoughts/Discussion

[PFVA63]

Hi

Over this last week I've been trying to come up with an idea for what I think a Traveller style turret might look like. I realize that everyone probably has their own ideas of what they might look like in their games, but I thought I might post what I came up with here, in case anyone might be interested.

My main concern right now is Book 2 style adventurer type vessels. From those rules, and other stuff I've read posted on these boards, I've tried to put together something that I think might be a reasonable interpretation.

I decided to start with the barrel of the turret 1st and then figure out the rest of the turret from there.

From the Book 2 rules (if I am recalling correctly - I've left my books elsewhere right now) a single missile barrel in a turret can fire up to 3 missiles a turn. As such, at first I thought of something like this for a modern aircraft.

However, since I wanted something for a streamlined vessel, I thought that maybe a box launcher more along the lines of a modern RAM missile launcher, as shown below (but without three tubes) would work.

Since I saw in a post somewhere on these boards that a normal Traveller type missile is on the order of about 150mm in diameter (6 inches) by about 1m (39 inches) long, I sketched up notional barrel to accommodate three such missiles, as shown below.

Here the barrel is just a little over 1m long and has a cross section that's roughly a cropped triangle in cross section. It will be hinged about 2/3 to 3/4 of its length aft to allow it to elevate from at least 0 to 90 degrees, while its mounted on a common base with any other barrels in the turret that can rotate freely over 360 degrees.

Regards

PF

 

[PFVA63]

Continued

Hi,

I had to make my post in a couple parts, since the board limits the number of images per post.

Using the missile barrel as a basis I next put together a sketch of a similar sized barrel for use as a beam or pulse laser.

Here I've kind of used some stuff off the internet on the US's Tactical High Energy Laser system THEL for a model.

Finally, I didn't have alot of info on what a sandcaster was meant to look like, so I made the Sandcaster barrel similar, though not identical to, a missile barrel.

Since a Sand cannister doesn't have a motor (I assume), I've assumed that maybe the cannister might be launched out of the barrel by a low powered gauss type mechanism.

If a sand cannister can be made to be only half the length of a missile (since it won't have a motor) it may be possible to fit two in the same space that a single missile might fit, with the gauss mechanism configured that it can launch either one or both the cannisters in the tube if desired.

Similarly, I guess that the missile barrel might similarly be configured with a low powered gauss mechanism to expel the missiles from their tubes, prior to the missiles engines cutting in if that is desired.

However, since in Traveller sand casters and missile barrels are treated differently, I figure that a missile barrel and a sand caster barrel will not be identical (so that you can't launch a missle from a sandcater tube or vice versa). Specifically, maybe the missile barrel will have some electonics fittings to downlink data to a missile prior to firing, etc.

Regards

PF

 

[PFVA63]

Other Components

Hi,

Next it was necessary to figure out what other stuff might be necessary for the weapons, beyond jsut the barrel.

For a missile launcher or sand caster barrel this may include reloads, while for a laser I'd suspect that there would be a lot of electronics and such.

From what I remember from Book 2 it does discuss how a gunner can reload a missile barrel, but if I am recalling correctly I don't recall it mentioning how many missiles a typical turret may carry.

Initially I considered maybe something along the lines on some modern non-vls shipborne missile launchers, where the launch arms for the missile launcher are served by a ring turret below deck (or inside the hull/deck house), like shown below.

I initially considered assuming part of the 1 dton of "fire control" for a turret might be available for use as such a magazine. However, after looking over some Traveller deck plans not all of them have such space adjacent to where there turrets are located.

As such I instead began looking at trying put the magazine into the turret.

Since I assumed that the hing point on each barrel might be away from the ends of the barrel (to limit the torque necessary to elevate the barrel, this results in the barrels having to be a bit above the surface of the hull, to allow space for the bareels to pivot. As such, this might allow enough space beneath the barrles for machinery for rotating the turret, as well as allow for some space for an above deck magazine.

Messign around with the dimesnions I began to realize that it might be possible to lay out the stuff to allow a 0.5m by 0.5m by about 1m long magazine aft of the barrel with a rotating reloader above it, kind of as shown below (this image is actually for the sand caster, but the concept is similar).

The concept more or less is that once the stuff in the barrel is fired off, the barrel is lowered to 0 degrees elevation and the ordnance on the cylidrical launcher is rammed out (probably either mechanically or electro-magnetically). The barrel can now be elevated to any angle, and the turret can be rotated to any heading to fire off these missiles or sand cannisters.

Meanwhile, the cylindrical launcher can be rotated to allow the three tubes there to be reloaded one by one, from the magazine below.

For reference here is a similar image for a missile barrel and magazine (though here I've shown the barrel elevated to 90 degrees because I was checking out clearance to make sure I had left enough space for the barrel to adeqautely swing while elevating).

Regards

PF

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

Here's the final stuff that I have for now.

The 1st image shows a rough idea for the additional components of a laser installation, where the red unit contains all the additional electronics and other components for the weapon, sized in a box that take up roughly the same space as the magazines for the missile launcher or sand caster, to allow any type weapon to fit within the same spaces as the others, so that a turret can be configured for any mix of weapons.

The next two images show how these three different components might be combine to fit within a triple turret, with a missile launcher on one side, a sand caster on the other side, and a laser in the middle. In these images, I have the barrels shown at different elevations to demonstrate that althoughthe turret itself rotates as one unit, each barrel can elevate independantly of the others.

Later I hope to maybe add some other small details, like the actual hinge mechanism for the barrels and something to maybe represent the machinery and electronics to rotate the turret and elevate the barrels, but for now hopefully these images might help get my ideas across.

Eventually I also intend to add the skin of the turret, as well.

In general I think a cocnept like this looks like it might allow for a fairly small bolt-on turret for use on small commercial (Book 2) type vessels, which might be on the order of maybe 2-2.5m long, 1.5 to 2m wide and maybe just over 1m tall, which hopefully will only be a fraction of a dton overall.

As a triple turret configured with a missile launcher, laser and sandcaster, it should hold 15 missiles, maybe up to 30 sand cannisters, and a mostly self contained laser. If it needs to be reloaded, the three side by side slots for the magazines (or laser components) are only about 60 inches wide (~1.5m) so that if the turret is rotated to a given heading this would line up with a single 1.5 by 1.5 deck square, which hopefully might allow for easy reloading through a deck/bulkhead hatch.

Anyay, these are just some thoughts that I came up with for what I think a turret could look like, so I thought I'd share them.

Regards

PF

PS. Here is a profile view line drawing for the missile mount that might help demonstrate things a little clearer than the 3D stuff. In this image you can better see the hinge point for the barrel and what the barrel would look like at 0, 45, and 90 degree elevations.

 

[mike wightman]

Really nice work

Now for some rules clarifications.

In CT a turret can be either single, double or triple mount - the number of weapon systems that can be installed in a turret.

A missile launcher can fire 1 missile per turn and has a supply of 3 missiles. A missile triple turret would therefore have 3 launchers, could fire off 3 missiles, and have a store of 9 missiles total.

 

[Vile]

Really really nice work. It's always good to see ship components 'built' in scale to get an idea of what they're like. With Traveller missiles, in particular, it reinforces how teeny they really are.

 

[Zparkz]

I never have understood why some consider it smart to have three different weapons in one mount.

Missiles i would place in fixed tubes pointing forward. Why? because it is more economic to fire a missile in the direction of travel or else it has to negate the forward moment before it can engage a target which are behind the firing unit. Depending on ruleset/scale used this can take an awfully long time.

And why would you pair a sandcaster with a laser? What iof you need to protect against an attack from another direction that you would fire your laser? I would always place a sandcaster in a different turret. I would actually have designed the ship with several fixed tubes of sandcasters, much like smoke cannisters on a tank. This I can cover a larger area.

 

[HG_B]

I never have understood why some consider it smart to have three different weapons in one mount...

Hard point limitations based on hull size.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I think the one thing to remember is that this is the 57th century. Advances in materials' science will probably scale down some things.

 

[Zparkz]

Hard point limitations based on hull size.

You can explain it with a rule, but realistically, it is just stupid. I think it is time Traveller starships evolves out of its HG craddle.

 

[HG_B]

but realistically, it is just stupid.

I don't know, have you ever designed a real star ship? ...

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

Really nice work

Now for some rules clarifications.

In CT a turret can be either single, double or triple mount - the number of weapon systems that can be installed in a turret.

A missile launcher can fire 1 missile per turn and has a supply of 3 missiles. A missile triple turret would therefore have 3 launchers, could fire off 3 missiles, and have a store of 9 missiles total.

Thanks for the clarification. I had misplaced my Book 2. Now that I've located it again, I think I had misremebered/confused the number of missiles fired per turn with the rule on reloading on pg 30 that suggests that each barrel has 3 missiles ready to fire (but is onlly capable of firing one per turn as selected selected by the gunner).

In the layout I sketched up, any one of the three tubes in the barrel can be fired on any given turn. So I think it works out OK.

However, it also clarifies to me that a sandcaster only carried three ready large cannisters, and not the six I was considering, but my sketch looks like it still should work out.

Thanks again, for the help.

Regards

PF

 

[Zparkz]

I don't know, have you ever designed a real star ship? ...

No, but I would never do such a thing in real life. One hit to the turret and you loose three weapons. I can't imagine that a hit won't limit itself to just one out of the three weapons. And even if just one of the three was destroyed, chances are quite large that whatever machinery drives the turret may get bust. Making it inoperatable.

 

[sabredog]

If you only have room for one turret then a triple turret with a laser/sandcaster/ and missile rack gives you maximum flexibility.

If you have two turrets and do the same you have redundant flexibility.

It's easy to figure out - do the math.

As for the damage thing - yeah, one hit "disables" the turret per the rules, but damage control might be able to get it working again....two hits destroys it. I complicate matters further by requiring a saving roll of 10+ on 2D6 (modified by armor type) to avoid damage if you are in the turret (or whatever part of the ship is hit). But a medic can try some damage control on you, too.


It's all hidden somewhere in the rules. Probably in the Starships section.

 

[Zutroi]

You can explain it with a rule, but realistically, it is just stupid. I think it is time Traveller starships evolves out of its HG craddle.

The rule stems from the desire for game balance... what's the challenge for the players if the 100 dTon scout they're flying has 10 triple missile turrets, triple sandcasters, and a double pulse-laser (since the limiting factor there is power plant output)?