mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Works for me too
SHIVVA class Patrol Frigate
- Thread starter jchurchill
- Start date
That strike cruiser was reworked in TNE - it's the Vlezdatl found in Power Projection: Escort. That design has a J2 drive.Originally posted by Bhoins:
I always thought that one was funny as the 2000T Strike Cruiser showed up at Garda Villis and was only Jump-1 it would have to make 15 jumps from the nearest Zhondani base (2 of them in empty hexes, one of them in the same hex as an Imperial Scout base and 5 of those jumps in Imperial space to get there.Or 4 jumps in Imperial space (one in an empty hex) from the nearest Sword Worlds base.As this is the first shots in the war in an adventure.... Always made me laugh.
Here's what we drafted for PP:E (c)BITS UK Ltd 2002-2004 and also (c)2002-2004 Tobias Riepe
----
Vlezhdatl Class Pocket Strike Cruiser
2000 dT TL14 MCr 1,857 PV 20
The Vlezhdatl Class Pocket Strike Cruiser, sometimes referred to as the 'Pliebr Atshtiavl' (Chill/Winter Sun) Type after the first unit deployed, is one of the more common Zhodani warships in the Tloql (Spinward Marches)
sector.
Following the Fourth Frontier War (1082-1084), the Iadr Nsobl Provincial Council concluded that a range of 'pocket' cruisers were need for use on the very edge of the Zhodani Consulate. Such vessels could be used in local operations without the provocative political impact on strained Zhodani/Imperial relations that their larger cousins could create. In addition, their primary weapon of a particle accelerator bay provides a devastating punch against smaller ships and escorts, lending the Vlezhdatl a menacing reputation as a commerce raider.
Note that the example shown has an extra energy weapon battery above reality - this is used to simulate the attacking punch of the small fighter squadron that the Pliebr Atshtiavl carries. Fighter rules are included in Power Projection: Fleet.
-----
From: "Tobias Riepe" <TRiepe5898@>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 22:45:23 Europe/London
To: Traveller_FullThrust@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Traveller_FullThrust] Zhodani Strike Cruiser
Reply-To: Traveller_FullThrust@yahoogroups.com
Hello Dom!
I don´t know if you are getting my E-mails, so I´ll try this.
The ship you were searching for is the Vlezhdatl class. The original design=
, btw, is quite illegal by the rules. I made a corrected version:
Ship: Vlezhdatl
Class: Vlezhdatl
Type: Strike Cruiser
Architect: Tobias
Tech Level: 14
USP
CS-B124CE2-306600-05905-0 MCr 2,321.247 2 KTons
Bat Bear 21 2 Crew: 47
Bat 21 2 TL: 14
Cargo: 127.000 Fuel: 640.000 EP: 240.000 Agility: 4 Shipboard Security Deta=
il: 2
Craft: 2 x 30T Vlezhdest fighter
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification
Architects Fee: MCr 23.212 Cost in Quantity: MCr 1,856.998
All you have to change in PP is to downgrade the Energy and Missile batteri=
es to ordinary ones, and to change the ND to level 2. Note that I increased =
the Jump rating to 2, in accordance with the TNE version.
If you didn´t get my first e-mail, there was a FASA supplement concerning t=
his ship, and it also appeared in Brilliant Lances (the TNE space combat boa=
rdgame.) In case you´re wondering, I don´t have said FASA supplement, so I c=
an´t help you there.
Some info can be found here:
http://www.jtas.org/travelleratlas/FifthFrontierWar/Ships/Zhodani/Vlezhdatl=
.html
HTH
Tobias
Actually the TO&E and OOBs here are petty good -
http://www.jtas.org/travelleratlas/FifthFrontierWar/War.html
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Jump-2 would still take forever to get to Garda Vilis through Imperial Space, or Imperial Space to be in position for the opening of hostilities. And I think you are still stuck paying a call at the Scout base.
Bruce
</font>[/QUOTE]
Bruce
That strike cruiser was reworked in TNE - it's the Vlezdatl found in Power Projection: Escort. That design has a J2 drive.Originally posted by Dom:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bhoins:
I always thought that one was funny as the 2000T Strike Cruiser showed up at Garda Villis and was only Jump-1 it would have to make 15 jumps from the nearest Zhondani base (2 of them in empty hexes, one of them in the same hex as an Imperial Scout base and 5 of those jumps in Imperial space to get there.Or 4 jumps in Imperial space (one in an empty hex) from the nearest Sword Worlds base.As this is the first shots in the war in an adventure.... Always made me laugh.
</font>[/QUOTE]
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
I was under the impression that BIS and FIB computers couldn't be installed in Small Craft. (Then I went back into the T20 rules and found that while Highguard does prohibit it T20 left that rule out.
Kinda like allowing a small craft to not have a bridge and use the computer at an effective model number -1. It just got left out.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
FIB too? <rummage> Well, so 'tis, I'd forgotten that. I did recall the HG no BIS allowed part of the rule but in this case went with it for a few reasons.
First, as you note the no bridge = computer -1 rule was not carried over, either by choice or accident. So I went with this also being another small change and accepted that BIS and FIB were allowed in T20.
Second, HG did not require a certain level of computer or degraded performance in the case of Streamlining factors. So BIS fits the new rule set there.
Third, T20 has a rule that limits small craft computer model to 1 per 10dT (round model up). So the maximun computer possible for 10dT and smaller craft is model/1. There is no such stated rule in HG, though if you take the standard small craft as proof of design then its easy to see where the T20 rule might have come from. In any case this gave me one more excuse to fudge and allow a BIS model.
Of course those are all just arguments for MTU, which also has model/0 systems, and BIS versions of all models, as well as a slightly altered computer TL progression, and other little tweaks
First, as you note the no bridge = computer -1 rule was not carried over, either by choice or accident. So I went with this also being another small change and accepted that BIS and FIB were allowed in T20.
Second, HG did not require a certain level of computer or degraded performance in the case of Streamlining factors. So BIS fits the new rule set there.
Third, T20 has a rule that limits small craft computer model to 1 per 10dT (round model up). So the maximun computer possible for 10dT and smaller craft is model/1. There is no such stated rule in HG, though if you take the standard small craft as proof of design then its easy to see where the T20 rule might have come from. In any case this gave me one more excuse to fudge and allow a BIS model.
Of course those are all just arguments for MTU, which also has model/0 systems, and BIS versions of all models, as well as a slightly altered computer TL progression, and other little tweaks
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
With the T20 design rules it is pretty much a straight port. Where you run into most of the problems is small craft. The Small fighters, The Supplement 9 FH. (And the modular Cutter looses lots of power.) The other problem I have run into is many of the "standard designs" are now grossly underpowered. The Mercenary Cruiser and the Corsair are the biggest losers. Powering the drive and the agility under TL15 is really tough when you have to have guns. They can still be done with similar results to High Guard but the Standard designs don't measure up. Actually this should probably most go to a new thread.
But to get back to the topic at hand the Shivva is pretty much a straight port, you just have a problem with the fighters.
But to get back to the topic at hand the Shivva is pretty much a straight port, you just have a problem with the fighters.
Agreed, if you want to go in that wayOriginally posted by Bhoins:
Jump-2 would still take forever to get to Garda Vilis through Imperial Space, or Imperial Space to be in position for the opening of hostilities. And I think you are still stuck paying a call at the Scout base.
I'm not worried about the scout base, mainly as they don't have that many ships, the Scouts are always out of it on Scout Brew, and the biggest vessel they're likely to have is a Donsonev!
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
They had five of them.
What's the chance of one of them being at the scout base in queastion at just the right time?
What's the chance of one of them being at the scout base in queastion at just the right time?
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
It isn't a question of whether or not they can stop a 2000T Jump1 or Jump2 Ship. It is a question of getting a few couriers off so the Imperial Navy knows you are there. It would really bite for a single 2000T "Strike Cruiser" and a couple of Shivva, Zhidts and/or the 600T Corvette, that I can't find the name for, escorts run into an Atlantic or 2 with escorts.
As far as going in that way? With even a Jump 2 ship you don't have alot of options. A Jump 2 ship can't get from Zhodani space to Swordworld space without passing through Imperial Space. (At least within the Spinward Marches.) All J2 routes through Querion Subsector Coreward to Spinward pass through RETINAE Retinae is class E starport, Imperial Research Station, no water and no Gas Giants. You can avoid the Scout base with a Jump 2 ship, you still have to make 2 jumps within Imperial space both of those planets are No Gas Giant, Ocean refueling only and both of them are right in between two Naval Bases. (I hope there are no exercises going on.
Coming up from the Sword Worlds you either have to stop at Margesi and do Ocean refueling and Choleosti before going on to Garda Vilis or you can stop and fuel at Vilis (High Pop, Ocean Refueling only, Class A Starport, (You don't think there might be a Guard ship there do you?)) The Planetary Navy would likely rip you up. And how it got to the Sword Worlds inthe first place is another problem. It would have to pass through several Darrian Confederation Naval bases. I guess you could go through the area between The Darrian Confederation and the Five Sisters Subsector. You would then have to refuel at Spume (Darian Naval base) or do some fancy Astrogation and add months to your trip and thread the needle between Flammarion and Iderati (And add 6 months to your trip to get to your target area, plus all the time it took you to get around Querion and Darrian.
But again in Adventure 7 the Strike Cruiser was Jump-1.
Makes for a good laugh as to why and how it was sent given how hard it would be to get it there.
I'm not worried about the scout base, mainly as they don't have that many ships, the Scouts are always out of it on Scout Brew, and the biggest vessel they're likely to have is a Donsonev! </font>[/QUOTE]
As far as going in that way? With even a Jump 2 ship you don't have alot of options. A Jump 2 ship can't get from Zhodani space to Swordworld space without passing through Imperial Space. (At least within the Spinward Marches.) All J2 routes through Querion Subsector Coreward to Spinward pass through RETINAE Retinae is class E starport, Imperial Research Station, no water and no Gas Giants. You can avoid the Scout base with a Jump 2 ship, you still have to make 2 jumps within Imperial space both of those planets are No Gas Giant, Ocean refueling only and both of them are right in between two Naval Bases. (I hope there are no exercises going on.
Coming up from the Sword Worlds you either have to stop at Margesi and do Ocean refueling and Choleosti before going on to Garda Vilis or you can stop and fuel at Vilis (High Pop, Ocean Refueling only, Class A Starport, (You don't think there might be a Guard ship there do you?)) The Planetary Navy would likely rip you up. And how it got to the Sword Worlds inthe first place is another problem. It would have to pass through several Darrian Confederation Naval bases. I guess you could go through the area between The Darrian Confederation and the Five Sisters Subsector. You would then have to refuel at Spume (Darian Naval base) or do some fancy Astrogation and add months to your trip and thread the needle between Flammarion and Iderati (And add 6 months to your trip to get to your target area, plus all the time it took you to get around Querion and Darrian.
But again in Adventure 7 the Strike Cruiser was Jump-1.
Agreed, if you want to go in that wayOriginally posted by Dom:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bhoins:
Jump-2 would still take forever to get to Garda Vilis through Imperial Space, or Imperial Space to be in position for the opening of hostilities. And I think you are still stuck paying a call at the Scout base.
I'm not worried about the scout base, mainly as they don't have that many ships, the Scouts are always out of it on Scout Brew, and the biggest vessel they're likely to have is a Donsonev! </font>[/QUOTE]
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
By the way once you get there how do you stop the Scout Base at Garda-Vilis from sending a Courier to Frenzie. (2 Parsecs away, next stop on the X-Boat Network, Class A Starport/Naval Base.) Or perhaps you think they might not notice if X-Boats that went to Garda Vilis never came back? Only takes one Capital ship to mess up your day if you are the Zhodani Navy. (I am more likely to believe that the ship might have been Zho manufacture but actually belonged to the Sword World Navy and was transferred decades ago.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Any idea how the three Shivas made it all the way to Fulacin un-noticed
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Several thoughts come to mind. The first is that they were built there. (TL-13 Class A starport.) The second option, as they are only 600T each you could easily carry one as cargo in a 2000+ Ton Freighter. (Or even unassembled components.) And the travel themselves there option is 5 jumps all the systems (until you reached Fulacin)having Gas Giants and all but one being class C or worse Starports. (One class B.) In theory you could carry one in an X-Boat Tender.
Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Any idea how the three Shivas made it all the way to Fulacin un-noticed
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The "built there option" sounds the most plausable, obvious, and the one thing I never thought of
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
I agree before I got A3 I figured that was one of the places that the Corsair class was built. With an official population of less than 1000, and a law level of 0 it is hardly the place to stick a Class A Starport. If all you wanted to do was to perform maintenance and sell fuel a Class B is more than sufficient. The only reason to have a Class A Starport is to be able to build ships. (And they probably build the occasional Corsair for the profit margin and to cause problems for the Imperial Navy.
Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
The "built there option" sounds the most plausable, obvious, and the one thing I never thought of
Bhoins mused:
"But again in Adventure 7 the Strike Cruiser was Jump-1.
Makes for a good laugh as to why and how it was sent given how hard it would be to get it there."
Mr. Bhoins,
Yup, CT is chock-a-block full of whoppers if you know where to look for them!
Back the last time I ran A:7 (and dinosaurs roamed the Earth) one of the PCs had several similar questions. I frantically handwaved away stating that the so-called strike cruiser was really an obsolescent Zho vessel tasked to raid Garda-Vilis on the off chance that the TLF and Sword Worlds could actually achieve what they were boasting about. The Zhos dispatched a small force that wouldn't divert too many assets from higher priorities.
The cruiser had reached G-V after a 'lift' from a battletender; IMTU navies routinely shift starships with low jump ratings via battletenders. MTU navies also use battletenders to 'boost' commerce raiders. The tenders carry raiders during their initial penetration of enemy space, in this manner the raiders can begin 5 parsecs or so closer to their deployment areas before using any of the jump fuel carried aboard.
The questions I wasn't able to handwave away had to do with how a platoon of troops aboard an 800dTon vessel could really effect a planet-wide insurgency!
Sincerely,
Larsen
"But again in Adventure 7 the Strike Cruiser was Jump-1.
Mr. Bhoins,
Yup, CT is chock-a-block full of whoppers if you know where to look for them!
Back the last time I ran A:7 (and dinosaurs roamed the Earth) one of the PCs had several similar questions. I frantically handwaved away stating that the so-called strike cruiser was really an obsolescent Zho vessel tasked to raid Garda-Vilis on the off chance that the TLF and Sword Worlds could actually achieve what they were boasting about. The Zhos dispatched a small force that wouldn't divert too many assets from higher priorities.
The cruiser had reached G-V after a 'lift' from a battletender; IMTU navies routinely shift starships with low jump ratings via battletenders. MTU navies also use battletenders to 'boost' commerce raiders. The tenders carry raiders during their initial penetration of enemy space, in this manner the raiders can begin 5 parsecs or so closer to their deployment areas before using any of the jump fuel carried aboard.
The questions I wasn't able to handwave away had to do with how a platoon of troops aboard an 800dTon vessel could really effect a planet-wide insurgency!
Sincerely,
Larsen
It's also possible that they are self-retreating battleriders... The J1 is to get from far to near, and/or the other... Essentially, it should be a J0 drive for a battlerider, but the rules don't allow J0 Drives (But IMTU, they can be built... 1.5% of hull, fuel requirements by what version I'm running: MT is 7.5%, CT/TNE/T4/T20 is 5%)
The "Built THere" sounds good to me, too. Perhaps, both...
Essentially, it should be a J0 drive for a battlerider, but the rules don't allow J0 Drives (But IMTU, they can be built... 1.5% of hull, fuel requirements by what version I'm running: MT is 7.5%, CT/TNE/T4/T20 is 5%)The "Built THere" sounds good to me, too. Perhaps, both...
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