Should the OTU UWP Data be Updated?

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Riiiggghhhhttt... And this coming from someone who thinks it's a "good" idea to up the technology of a TL 3 world just because the starport happened to be Class B.

Well, if we're talking about Dinomn/Lanth here, then the strongest argument against its existence from the strict-CT standpoint is that it's an impossible creation under the ruleset. The lowest Tech Level Dinomn should possibly be able to have is 5; there is simply no way for that world to exist in the first place except by referee fiat.

I would first try to figure out an explanation, so I'd have to know which TL3 world you're talking about to say if I agreed with Daryen (changing the starport to Class C might be better, depending on the habitability of the world), but there's a good chance I would. That's because boatyards on worlds without the technology to support them makes even less sense than shipyards. Why would anyone build a boatyard in a system without customers? Not only do you have to import all the parts, you also have to export the finished product.

On the other hand, a true TL-3, Class B starport world is quite a bit less problematic, in my book. That's because the circumstances guiding the creation of such a world are so unique and rare in the first place (at least they should be, according to the rules) that its very existence practically conjures up its own explanation.

For starters, a TL3/Class B combination is only going to happen on a world with a couple of hundred million people laboring under a Religious Dictatorship (Pop-8/Gov-D). And when I say only, I mean it: as in that's the only Pop/Gov combination that will work here.

Throw in a few other limiting but necessary factors (such a world has to be fairly good-sized, with at least a marginally usable atmosphere and not too much water), and you actually wind up with a combination of vital statistics that are so rare that I estimate that even within the scope of the entire 11,000-world Imperium, the odds of even one such world appearing are less than 40%.

Meaning -- at least to me -- that if you honestly dice up such a world, you really ought to go that extra mile in figuring out why it is the way it is.

 

[jfetters]

For starters, a TL3/Class B combination is only going to happen on a world with a couple of hundred million people laboring under a Religious Dictatorship (Pop-8/Gov-D). And when I say only, I mean it: as in that's the only Pop/Gov combination that will work here.

Throw in a few other limiting but necessary factors (such a world has to be fairly good-sized, with at least a marginally usable atmosphere and not too much water), and you actually wind up with a combination of vital statistics that are so rare that I estimate that even within the scope of the entire 11,000-world Imperium, the odds of even one such world appearing are less than 40%.

It ain't there, trust me.

 

[far-trader]

I'm not sure which world is being discussed but any world with a Class B Starport showing a TL of 3 is almost certainly a transcribing error and should be a TL of 8. You see how similar the two look yes? As noted, with a Class B Starport it's impossible to roll a TL of 3. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. This is one correction that should be allowed and I'm really disappointed by anyone arguing that this is a good one to keep.

As for Hans' idea of changing the Starport Class instead of the TL, that could work too, but the order of operations (for what it's worth) should mean the Starport stays and the TL changes, for me anyway.

 

[rancke]

Well, if we're talking about Dinomn/Lanth here,

We're not. Dinomn/Lanth has a UWP of B674632-9.

then the strongest argument against its existence from the strict-CT standpoint is that it's an impossible creation under the ruleset. The lowest Tech Level Dinomn should possibly be able to have is 5; there is simply no way for that world to exist in the first place except by referee fiat.

And referee (or author) fiat is IMO a perfect justification for worlds that you can't get by following the rules. The world generation system is a prop, not a straight-jacket. If an author can think up an interesting world that falls outside the norms, that's perfectly fine by me. Provided the idea works, of course.

For example, a world like Jack Vance's Big World (large diameter, low density resulting in Earthlike gravity and societies with high tech knowledge but very little metal to implement it) could be very interesting. And who cares if you can't roll up size L (or whatever it is)? Not me.



Hans

 

[rancke]

As for Hans' idea of changing the Starport Class instead of the TL, that could work too, but the order of operations (for what it's worth) should mean the Starport stays and the TL changes, for me anyway.

My feeling is that the deciding factor should be whether the author can think of a more interesting world with a higher TL or with a lower starport class. Which might very well depend on how many other mid-tech worlds with Class B starports and how many other low-tech worlds with Class C starports there are in the specific stellar neighborhood.


Hans

 

[far-trader]

...And referee (or author) fiat is IMO a perfect justification for worlds that you can't get by following the rules. The world generation system is a prop, not a straight-jacket. If an author can think up an interesting world that falls outside the norms, that's perfectly fine by me. Provided the idea works, of course.

Agreed, as long as what we are talking about is a (singular) world specifically created outside the rules and so noted and explained. I also have no problem with unique (limited to 1 per type else it's not unique, and very few per sector else it's nothing special) worlds that are creative works and explained as such. In fact I welcome such and like to do them myself.

I do have a huge problem with dozens or more unique or impossible worlds in a flagship sector that have no explanation. When they are supposed to have been randomly generated and/or created. When the error is an obvious simple one that is never acknowledged, and when pointed out not allowed or offered a correction. When fans who supposedly want to keep to the rules rail against changing worlds that break those very same rules...

 

[salochin999]

Personally I'd only want typos changed - if that - as odd combinations are good for dreaming up odd cultures and situations.

The logical thing would probably be to roll for the star port last instead of first but I did that and found it made the OTU very bland and samey.