Simple Sensor Rules for CT (work in progress)

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ptah:
What of the idea of decoy/jamming drones being used as the interstellar version of a "smoke screen"?

I dig it.

There's "remote sensor missiles" mentioned in Special Supplement 3 as well.

These need to be incorporated into the rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Ptah:
What of the idea of decoy/jamming drones being used as the interstellar version of a "smoke screen"?

I dig it.

There's "remote sensor missiles" mentioned in Special Supplement 3 as well.

These need to be incorporated into the rules.

 

[Cymew]

Now I have read the rules and (hopefully) digested them.

They look elegant and fairly solid. A few notes.

I'm not sure I think target orientation is worth adding DM's for. Space is big and the gameturns are so long I wonder if it matters were you're heading.

Then there's the question of sensor quality. Since the UGM scale is so tilted towards the "lower end" I wonder if Standard Passive array for civilians isn't a bit too good. There's not much room for improvement, while the active sensors have to have a *massive* upgrade or a *major* PP to get Standard. On the other hand your numbers actually match the baseline established so it's a minor nit to pick.

Good work! Now I'm getting very tempted to get my hands on those Special Supplements as well...

 

[Cymew]

Now I have read the rules and (hopefully) digested them.

They look elegant and fairly solid. A few notes.

I'm not sure I think target orientation is worth adding DM's for. Space is big and the gameturns are so long I wonder if it matters were you're heading.

Then there's the question of sensor quality. Since the UGM scale is so tilted towards the "lower end" I wonder if Standard Passive array for civilians isn't a bit too good. There's not much room for improvement, while the active sensors have to have a *massive* upgrade or a *major* PP to get Standard. On the other hand your numbers actually match the baseline established so it's a minor nit to pick.

Good work! Now I'm getting very tempted to get my hands on those Special Supplements as well...

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Cymew:
Now I have read the rules and (hopefully) digested them.

They look elegant and fairly solid.

Cool. I'm going to post the "official" updated version of these rules soon. I've got them pretty much complete (some tweaks from what is posted here), but I'll need to find some time to post it.

I'm not sure I think target orientation is worth adding DM's for. Space is big and the gameturns are so long I wonder if it matters were you're heading.

I'm with you.

I cut down the DMs a lot in the "official" version. I felt I had too many.

I'm only going to use a few DMs as necessary--the others are going to be "optional" DMs that a GM can use if he wants the added detail.

Target orientation is one of the "optional" DMs that GMs can choose to use or ignore.

I do think that they "matter", though, with regard to what you say above, because, even though the turn in starship combat is over 15 min long, a ship will typically accelerate in one direction in space for that length of time--so the orientation will matter for any GM willing to use the optional orientation DMs.

The rules will work fine (quick and easy) without them, though.

In fact, most of the DMs will be optional--the only required DMs will be PowerPlant and Range.

Then there's the question of sensor quality. Since the UGM scale is so tilted towards the "lower end" I wonder if Standard Passive array for civilians isn't a bit too good.

Remember that UGM doesn't have to be used at all. These sensor rules can easily be used with just a 2D roll (forget UGM).

The UGM task will, at most, give a +1 to the roll (+2 not very often), so we're only talking about a +1DM.

The UGM task roll is not needed at all.

Good work!

Thanks!

Now, all I need to do is (1) get all this stuff cleaned up and posted so that it's easy to read (wading through all this is a nightmare for someone wanted to use the rules), and (2) decide how jammers are going to be implemented.

I think I'm just going to present the sensors rules first, then add jammers later as an expansion to the rules. Jammers won't come into play unless we're dealing with military ships (or military-upgraded PC vessels) anyway.

Now I'm getting very tempted to get my hands on those Special Supplements as well...

You just need Special Supplement 3: Missiles. It's a damn good set of expanded space combat rules for CT.

You don't really need Starter Traveller--we've mentioned everything you need to know about Range Bands earlier in the thread.

And, I don't think Mayday is really needed either. Although Mayday has the second best explanation of Range Bands (the best description is in Starter Traveller), and that system is similar to LBB2 with Range Bands--Mayday is also on a different scale (bigger Range Bands, longer turns).

If I were you, I'd just get Special Supplement 3 and play LBB2 space combat with the Range Bands instead of vector movement.

That's exactly what I'm doing in my game.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Cymew:
Now I have read the rules and (hopefully) digested them.

They look elegant and fairly solid.

Cool. I'm going to post the "official" updated version of these rules soon. I've got them pretty much complete (some tweaks from what is posted here), but I'll need to find some time to post it.

I'm not sure I think target orientation is worth adding DM's for. Space is big and the gameturns are so long I wonder if it matters were you're heading.

I'm with you.

I cut down the DMs a lot in the "official" version. I felt I had too many.

I'm only going to use a few DMs as necessary--the others are going to be "optional" DMs that a GM can use if he wants the added detail.

Target orientation is one of the "optional" DMs that GMs can choose to use or ignore.

I do think that they "matter", though, with regard to what you say above, because, even though the turn in starship combat is over 15 min long, a ship will typically accelerate in one direction in space for that length of time--so the orientation will matter for any GM willing to use the optional orientation DMs.

The rules will work fine (quick and easy) without them, though.

In fact, most of the DMs will be optional--the only required DMs will be PowerPlant and Range.

Then there's the question of sensor quality. Since the UGM scale is so tilted towards the "lower end" I wonder if Standard Passive array for civilians isn't a bit too good.

Remember that UGM doesn't have to be used at all. These sensor rules can easily be used with just a 2D roll (forget UGM).

The UGM task will, at most, give a +1 to the roll (+2 not very often), so we're only talking about a +1DM.

The UGM task roll is not needed at all.

Good work!

Thanks!

Now, all I need to do is (1) get all this stuff cleaned up and posted so that it's easy to read (wading through all this is a nightmare for someone wanted to use the rules), and (2) decide how jammers are going to be implemented.

I think I'm just going to present the sensors rules first, then add jammers later as an expansion to the rules. Jammers won't come into play unless we're dealing with military ships (or military-upgraded PC vessels) anyway.

Now I'm getting very tempted to get my hands on those Special Supplements as well...

You just need Special Supplement 3: Missiles. It's a damn good set of expanded space combat rules for CT.

You don't really need Starter Traveller--we've mentioned everything you need to know about Range Bands earlier in the thread.

And, I don't think Mayday is really needed either. Although Mayday has the second best explanation of Range Bands (the best description is in Starter Traveller), and that system is similar to LBB2 with Range Bands--Mayday is also on a different scale (bigger Range Bands, longer turns).

If I were you, I'd just get Special Supplement 3 and play LBB2 space combat with the Range Bands instead of vector movement.

That's exactly what I'm doing in my game.

 

[BillDowns]

Might I add a few things?

Instead of using Computer to mod the roll, let the PC buy extra sensor equipment. Something like this:
Basic Civ system - free, part of Bridge
Basic Mil system - 10 Mcr, 5 tons
Mil +1 - 15 Mcr, 10 tons
etc...

Also, regarding angle-on-the-bow, I used to train sonar operators while in the Navy. The biggest spikes come from 30 and 90 degree AOB with 0 next after. That's how one can tell when a contact is turning while only using passive systems

 

[BillDowns]

Might I add a few things?

Instead of using Computer to mod the roll, let the PC buy extra sensor equipment. Something like this:
Basic Civ system - free, part of Bridge
Basic Mil system - 10 Mcr, 5 tons
Mil +1 - 15 Mcr, 10 tons
etc...

Also, regarding angle-on-the-bow, I used to train sonar operators while in the Navy. The biggest spikes come from 30 and 90 degree AOB with 0 next after. That's how one can tell when a contact is turning while only using passive systems

 

[BillDowns]

Second thought...

If you look at real Naval warships, search arrays are entirely separate from targeting arrays. The former send out broad waves at a dispersion angle while the latter send out almost maser-like focused waves with a great of power so they can force thru ECM. I heard stories - no telling how true - of guys cooking seagulls at 3 miles out with fire control radar.

 

[BillDowns]

Second thought...

If you look at real Naval warships, search arrays are entirely separate from targeting arrays. The former send out broad waves at a dispersion angle while the latter send out almost maser-like focused waves with a great of power so they can force thru ECM. I heard stories - no telling how true - of guys cooking seagulls at 3 miles out with fire control radar.

 

[Plankowner]

Never saw that, but I did watch them fry seagulls that had stopped for rest on the radar unit. Pretty cool to an 18 year-old. Actually, it still sounds pretty cool to this 43-year-old.

UHM, what was the topic again?

 

[Plankowner]

Never saw that, but I did watch them fry seagulls that had stopped for rest on the radar unit. Pretty cool to an 18 year-old. Actually, it still sounds pretty cool to this 43-year-old.

UHM, what was the topic again?

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:

A simple house rule, adapted from BL and Mayday is to spend M-drive rating for either velocity change or for an evasion DM to avoid being hit.

I do believe that concept is being put into T5.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:

A simple house rule, adapted from BL and Mayday is to spend M-drive rating for either velocity change or for an evasion DM to avoid being hit.

I do believe that concept is being put into T5.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by BillDowns:
Might I add a few things?

Absolutely.

Instead of using Computer to mod the roll, let the PC buy extra sensor equipment. Something like this:
Basic Civ system - free, part of Bridge
Basic Mil system - 10 Mcr, 5 tons
Mil +1 - 15 Mcr, 10 tons
etc...

I kinda like where you're going with that.

I want to keep it simple, though.

Hmm...I'll give it some thought.

Also, regarding angle-on-the-bow, I used to train sonar operators while in the Navy. The biggest spikes come from 30 and 90 degree AOB with 0 next after. That's how one can tell when a contact is turning while only using passive systems

That angle on bow stuff was just a suggestion--thoughts on where a GM could take the rules if he wanted to use/create more detailed DMs for different aspects of sensor operation.

I don't use them in my game (I use the basic DMs I listed only), and I didn't put much thought into the bow-etc DMs in the optional rules section. I just wanted to give GMs of other things they could add to these rules to suit their own tastes.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by BillDowns:
Might I add a few things?

Absolutely.

Instead of using Computer to mod the roll, let the PC buy extra sensor equipment. Something like this:
Basic Civ system - free, part of Bridge
Basic Mil system - 10 Mcr, 5 tons
Mil +1 - 15 Mcr, 10 tons
etc...

I kinda like where you're going with that.

I want to keep it simple, though.

Hmm...I'll give it some thought.

Also, regarding angle-on-the-bow, I used to train sonar operators while in the Navy. The biggest spikes come from 30 and 90 degree AOB with 0 next after. That's how one can tell when a contact is turning while only using passive systems

That angle on bow stuff was just a suggestion--thoughts on where a GM could take the rules if he wanted to use/create more detailed DMs for different aspects of sensor operation.

I don't use them in my game (I use the basic DMs I listed only), and I didn't put much thought into the bow-etc DMs in the optional rules section. I just wanted to give GMs of other things they could add to these rules to suit their own tastes.