Skill cap?

[Apparition]

Ive been searching through the book, and it occurs to me that there is no mention on the cap for skills. Is this an oversight, or is it meant to be played that way?

I have seen one of my players start play after some lucky dice rolls with a gun combat of 6, and this seems potenitally game breaking to me, since with some very lucky die rolls and several terms in creation, and characters could potential start play with 10 or higher levels in a single skill.

I am considering setting a skill cap of 5, but other opinions would be helpful

 

[aramis]

The cap only exists for some skill receipts, and for connections-gained levels.

If a given entry shows a limit (usually 0 or 1), it will be listed with a number. If an entry has no number, that's unlimited. (p. 8)

Engineering 0 means "if you don't have engineering, gain it at level 0; otherwise, no gain."
Pilot 1 means "If you don't have pilot, or have it at 0, raise it to 1; otherwise, no gain.
Stealth means "Add 1 to the level of Stealth skill; if no skill or skill 0, go to skill 1"
Brawling 2 means "If skill <2, it's now 2; if skill already 2+, no gain."
​

Connections can't be used for skills already at 3+ (p.37)

Note that most rank skills and many event skills have limit numbers.

 

[Kilgs]

I believe you can have only as many skill levels as INT+(something). Don't have my book with me. Look at the small section about improving skills.

Personally, I lock all skills to a max of 4 in chargen.

 

[HG_B]

I believe you can have only as many skill levels as INT+(something). Don't have my book with me. Look at the small section about improving skills.

I think you are referring to starting skills and EDU. I haven't seen anything about max levels in MGT. An old Trav rule set had the Int + EDU rule I think.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

I think you are referring to starting skills and EDU. I haven't seen anything about max levels in MGT. An old Trav rule set had the Int + EDU rule I think.

This is great thread - The total ranks and number skills was INT+EDU from my interpretation of the Classic rules; however, I could be wrong. In addition, I am not even sure there is a cap on skill levels.

When it comes to MgT version - I am not sure if there is a cap on the level of skill levels. I would assume that since a skill level of 4 is relates to something famous that would be the max. I am only using the example: “a character with Medic 4 is famous surgeon or specialist” p. 6. One could argue, once you’re famous…there is no higher level, but I guess that is open for interpretation.

 

[GypsyComet]

INT + EDU was implemented for CT and MT's "advanced" character generation systems (Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts, and Merchant Prince) because skill awards could be rolling in every *year* and could add up very quickly.

Mongoose's character generation produces more skills on average than the CT/MT Basic systems but less than the Advanced systems. More importantly, ALL careers use the same system, so there is no need to rein a few careers in.

 

[Dagrill]

Ive been searching through the book, and it occurs to me that there is no mention on the cap for skills. Is this an oversight, or is it meant to be played that way?

I have seen one of my players start play after some lucky dice rolls with a gun combat of 6, and this seems potenitally game breaking to me, since with some very lucky die rolls and several terms in creation, and characters could potential start play with 10 or higher levels in a single skill.

I am considering setting a skill cap of 5, but other opinions would be helpful

Hi,

Gun Combat should be broken down into specific skills, so Gun Combat - Slug Pistol 2, Gun Combat - Laser Pistol 2, Gun Combat - Laser Rifle 1 and Gun Combat - Slug Rifle 1, for example.

I haven't had anyone lucky enough to roll so many but a unique skill llike Astrogation should be limited to a max of 5, also during character generation there is the limit of no more skills than INT +EDU,

Kind Regards

David

 

[BytePro]

No, MgT has no skill caps that I'm aware of. Even in the improvement section (takes longer the more skill levels, is all).

Including level 0 skills from background skills, and basic skills, and the extras from ranks, event tables, and player optional connection skills, not to mention group selected skill packages - an MgT PC usually has quite a lot of skills, and can easily have some very high numbers.

Die saturation with skill level alone is very possible. Add characteristic, computer, equipment, and augment DMs, (not to mention timing, etc.) and its not too hard to make 'superheros' using the structured mechanics... <shrug>

MgT's core rules were designed to support other settings and the 'average joe' concept from CT is not really an apparent goal of the design. Without care, PCs easily can become the equivalent of Corbin Dallas, Neo, or Yoda.

There is an 'optional' max terms rule mentioned.

Another approach - limit the compounding of DMs. Should a level-4 doctor really benefit from a level-2 computer program the same as a level-0? An amateur may require a power tool and parts to fix something - where a pro can achieve the same result using his teeth, a paper clip and his skill - the power tool and parts would just slow him down. Not talking about penalizing higher skills (i.e. no negative DMs), rather limiting benefits and intelligently gauging what DMs really represent. In theory, the dice curve should compensate for this, but 2d6 is too limited in practice.

Simplistic general rules I've used: Skill-3+ characteristic DMs apply to Average+ difficulty. Equipment DMs and such apply only on Difficult+ for Skill-3+ and are limited to +2 for lower skilled. (Hacks, since they are 'broken' for specific DMs and low skills compared to higher, but I lost interest in the mechanics a while back <shrug>)

 

[Shonner]

Skills rarely go above level 4 in Mongoose Traveller during character generation.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Skills rarely go above level 4 in Mongoose Traveller during character generation.

Depends on if a gaming group allows anti aging drugs and unlimited number of terms.

Ive been searching through the book, and it occurs to me that there is no mention on the cap for skills. Is this an oversight, or is it meant to be played that way?

I am considering setting a skill cap of 5, but other opinions would be helpful

I don't think it is an oversight.

On page 36 you have the optional rule for limiting terms. This will not give a hard limit to the number of skills or max skill level but it is effective in controlling a characters overall quantity of skills.

Odds are low, but even a 3 term character getting promoted every term could gain 6 levels in the same skill. They would be a one trick pony though.

 

[aramis]

Note that I've used a sill cap of level 4, and had only one player hit it (but he hit it twice) in 50-some generated characters.

 

[BytePro]

Yeah, IME, random chargen generally tops out at 3-4 if Players don't opt for excessive terms - though it depends on the career path (look at odds for scholar-scientist science skill, for instance). [Toss in some attribute modifiers and gear DMs -> munchkin delight! o: ]

 

[Cryton]

In the game I have been running, I capped skill levels at level 4, and total skill levels possessed at Int+Edu (0 level skills do not count toward this total). Should a character exceed the Int+Edu limit, they pick their least used skill and lower it by one to a minimum of lvl 0 (its called skill atrophy, aka use it or loose it).

It has worked well, my players like the rule, and they have well rounded characters that they like.

~Rich

 

[rancke]

INT + EDU was implemented for CT and MT's "advanced" character generation systems (Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts, and Merchant Prince) because skill awards could be rolling in every *year* and could add up very quickly.

I always had a big problem with that rule, partly because it could really depress a player to have to keep downgrading skills from 1 to 0, but even more so because someone with high physical skills and low INT and EDU was unable to learn to fight his way out of a paper bag. And yet, the not too bright combat monster is a common stereotype. So I changed that a bit. I divided skills into physical skills, mental skills and practical skills (the last category was a bit vague, but essentially it was skills that didn't clearly fall in either of the other two categories). I then capped physical skills at STR+DEX and mental skills at INT+EDU and all skills at STR+DEX+INT+EDU. In other words, practical skills could be counted against either of the smaller limits.


Hans

 

[Shonner]

Depends on if a gaming group allows anti aging drugs and unlimited number of terms.

Um... ya.

Odds are low, but even a 3 term character getting promoted every term could gain 6 levels in the same skill.

You mean odds are nearly impossible.

Try using less cosmic in your character generation.

 

[Cryton]

Um... ya.



You mean odds are nearly impossible.

Try using less cosmic in your character generation.

If using the skill selection option from the MgT core rules, the odds are only as high as a player deciding to take his skill receipts for his terms all in the same skill. More often than not, there's one in every group of gamers who will try this.

So hes not being cosmic about anything.

 

[Shonner]

So hes not being cosmic about anything.

3 terms, promoted each time, level 6 skill? Seriously. What kind of Traveller role player is sitting at that table or in Hangout+?

 

[Cryton]

3 terms, promoted each time, level 6 skill? Seriously. What kind of Traveller role player is sitting at that table or in Hangout+?

The ones that make a GM ask if he should impose Skill Caps. You may not have encountered them, but trust me, they exist.

In Mgt You get one skill automatically each term, and a second when you succeed on your advancement roll, not counting those you get for achieving a new rank or from rolled events. If the skill selection option is being used, that's two skills per term you get to choose....and if the player wants to run "the best dang (insert descriptive)" he or she will max out their selected skill of choice before choosing to put skill ranks in other skills. If not using the skill selection method, they will always choose to roll on the chart that has the best chance of getting them the skill they want.

Its actually very common in gaming circles. They are the guys that always play "the pilot", "the gun-bunny", "the fighter", " the mage/psion", "The medic" ect. It stems from a want to be able to fulfill their chosen role to the best of their ability.

~Rich

 

[Shonner]

Point-buy-on-purpose gets players what they want. Now I'm curious what the player expects for each skill check, because now dice are involved. Do they start fudging with that Mongoose mechanic to get their way there as well?

 

[Cryton]

Point-buy-on-purpose gets players what they want. Now I'm curious what the player expects for each skill check, because now dice are involved. Do they start fudging with that Mongoose mechanic to get their way there as well?

The common terms for what your talking about is "being a munchkin", "rules-lawyering" and "min-maxing", and what they expect is to succeed.

Usually, those that do this know the rules, oftentimes as well, or better than the GM and will do everything in their power to make sure they pass with exceptional success on every roll in their chosen area. While they won't fudge the mechanics, they will max their skill if possible, buy any gear that gives them a positive die modifiers, and do things to make sure that they get the best circumstantial mods as well.

Its very prevalent among gamers who have played a lot of d20 games, and VERY common at conventions and tournament games.