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Skill Frequency

Back when I GMed a lot of Traveller, I elected to say world or subsector top of their field types were not based on a single skill. I used a combo of skill groups and other tags to show the person was a top of their field type. Were they published for example. Do they have several skills in the related areas at levels 4-5? That kind of thing. A character with a skill of 3 did not automatically mean they were a top tier, well known person.

So while I understand the desire to find the table/chart, in my case I ignored that kind of oversimplification of the fame and notoriety. :)
 
Even within CT ... a LBB2 Character is very different from a Book 4-7 Character with all those Schools and Special Assignments. I can get just a little lucky and create an Army sniper with Rifle-6 in just 3 terms of Advanced Chargen (it happened). What you discover is a +6 breaks the 2d6 curve ... impossible shots become average and average shots become automatic. It changes the game dynamics dramatically.

At SKILL-4 and above, you really start encountering the "Grendel's Mother" problem and the game needs to be custom tailored for that situation.
I went entirely B1/S4 adding an additional advanced education table- most of which have an instruction skill just so there are more of those and careers can train replacements.
 
Like others have said, Skill-1 is considered 'professional grade' for starship jobs (pilot, navigator, engineer, steward, gunner). That would imply that most Skill-1 skills are 'professional level'. Broker-1 is a competent starport broker, Mechanical-1 is a competent mechanic, etc.

Medical is (stated) unique in that Medical-1 is EMT level or Licensed Vocational Nurse level, Medical-2 is Registered Nurse level or Nurse Practitioner level, while Medical-3 is Doctor level (with Med-3 and DEX 8+ being surgeon quality). Given that this is very much a wargame rpg, it makes sense not to let Medical-1 be a doctor.

I think looking at 'best in X' misses the point of Traveller. Skill-1 is professional grade. Skill-2 is probably supervisory/trainer grade, Skill-3 is expert in field, while Skill-4+ is master in field (and after which you might start getting 'best in x').

So, coming full circle, maybe Skill-4 is best on World with Pop 6-; Skill-5 is best on World with Pop 6+; Skill-6 is best in Subsector; Skill-7 is best in Quadrant; Skill-9 is best in Sector; Skill-10 is best in Domain; Skill-11+ is best in Imperium.
 
Like others have said, Skill-1 is considered 'professional grade' for starship jobs (pilot, navigator, engineer, steward, gunner). That would imply that most Skill-1 skills are 'professional level'.
This is ... not correct.

Skill-1 is "qualified" to be able to fulfill a role. It's the minimum needed, rather than the default assumption for anyone and everyone.
Given that this is very much a wargame rpg, it makes sense not to let Medical-1 be a doctor.
Umm ... :oops:
 
Like others have said, Skill-1 is considered 'professional grade' for starship jobs (pilot, navigator, engineer, steward, gunner). That would imply that most Skill-1 skills are 'professional level'. Broker-1 is a competent starport broker, Mechanical-1 is a competent mechanic, etc.
This is ... not correct.

Skill-1 is "qualified" to be able to fulfill a role. It's the minimum needed, rather than the default assumption for anyone and everyone.

Umm ... :oops:
This^

Skill 2 is, I think, generally considered 'professional level'. Skill 1 is possibly 'fully trained but new'.

Consider an average roll on 2d6 being 6-8. With a +2 for skill, those rolled 6's become a success. A roll of 5 or less representing something out of the ordinary preventing success.
Medical is (stated) unique in that Medical-1 is EMT level or Licensed Vocational Nurse level, Medical-2 is Registered Nurse level or Nurse Practitioner level, while Medical-3 is Doctor level (with Med-3 and DEX 8+ being surgeon quality). Given that this is very much a wargame rpg, it makes sense not to let Medical-1 be a doctor.
Medical skill is probably the best-known example of skill progression to RL comparison, but other fields probably have a similar progressions where Level 1=Bachelor degree, Level 2=Master's degree, and Level 3=PhD. Past that, it's not codified in academia, but past level 3, it seems like specific skills are pretty rare. Things like medical are open to a whole planet (generally), but Fleet Tactics seems to be limited to a few rolls on a couple tables for command-grade officers.
I think looking at 'best in X' misses the point of Traveller. Skill-1 is professional grade. Skill-2 is probably supervisory/trainer grade, Skill-3 is expert in field, while Skill-4+ is master in field (and after which you might start getting 'best in x').

So, coming full circle, maybe Skill-4 is best on World with Pop 6-; Skill-5 is best on World with Pop 6+; Skill-6 is best in Subsector; Skill-7 is best in Quadrant; Skill-9 is best in Sector; Skill-10 is best in Domain; Skill-11+ is best in Imperium.
This is the kind of information I was looking for. If I need a 'skill X' person, how large a net do I need to cast? If I am that skill X person, how large an area can I claim to be the best in?
 
Skill-1 is professional grade. Skill-2 is probably supervisory/trainer grade, Skill-3 is expert in field, while Skill-4+ is master in field (and after which you might start getting 'best in x').
Again, this is contradictory with the Medical school training. Any graduate receives Medical 3, while we can assume he's not an expert, while honor graduates earn Medical 4, so, to your table, he would be a master, while he has just finished his studies...
So, coming full circle, maybe Skill-4 is best on World with Pop 6-;
That would mean a just honors graduated Doctor would be the best in this planet...

Think on cities with less than 1 million inhabitants. Most Spanish provincial capitals fall into this cathegory, and yet they have univeristies, where, if we assume the level 3 at finishing them, the teachers must have level 4 with their specialties and Instruction...

As each career would have more than one teacher, there are many "best in city" people in the same field...
Level 1=Bachelor degree, Level 2=Master's degree, and Level 3=PhD.
As per medical doctors, see that being a doctor does not mean having a doctorate, nor even a master, just having finished medicine university studies...

Extrapolating this to other academical careers, as lawyer, historician, engineer, etc (just to give some examples with Traveller skills), again level 3 would be just finished university, and master or PhD should be higher.

Of course, non academic skills (as tactics (any of them), gun combat, etc) are more difficult to classificate this way, and you probably need to evaluate the skill level by their level of successes. If a shooter hits about 70% (about 6+) on target shooting at 100m, and assuming the roll needed is 8+ and the DMs due to distance, aiming, etc., which skill does (s)he need to achieve this rate?

Again, how many such people can you find in a city/planet/whatever?

Of course, skills like tactics or leadership, with less clear results, are more difficult to evaluate this way...
 
Again, this is contradictory with the Medical school training. Any graduate receives Medical 3, while we can assume he's not an expert, while honor graduates earn Medical 4, so, to your table, he would be a master, while he has just finished his studies...

That would mean a just honors graduated Doctor would be the best in this planet...
A very small planet, though. And they're only the best on the planet until they can ship out to someplace that can afford a Medical 4 doctor. Unless we're remaking Doc Hollywood.
Think on cities with less than 1 million inhabitants. Most Spanish provincial capitals fall into this cathegory, and yet they have univeristies, where, if we assume the level 3 at finishing them, the teachers must have level 4 with their specialties and Instruction...

As each career would have more than one teacher, there are many "best in city" people in the same field...
So maybe the exact description is in error and skill 4 is 'best in Pop 4 area', so that's any grouping of a 10 thousand or more. Or 'Pop 3 area' Statistically, if skill table is selected randomly and skills are rolled, you can expect about 1 Skill-4 per thousand people. Very roughly.
As per medical doctors, see that being a doctor does not mean having a doctorate, nor even a master, just having finished medicine university studies...
My understanding was that medical doctors had, by the time they finished training and internships and everything else required for a professional license, giving them the right to be known as "doctor", had roughly the same education and time invested (10-15 years according to google) as PhD doctors.
Extrapolating this to other academical careers, as lawyer, historician, engineer, etc (just to give some examples with Traveller skills), again level 3 would be just finished university, and master or PhD should be higher.

Of course, non academic skills (as tactics (any of them), gun combat, etc) are more difficult to classificate this way, and you probably need to evaluate the skill level by their level of successes. If a shooter hits about 70% (about 6+) on target shooting at 100m, and assuming the roll needed is 8+ and the DMs due to distance, aiming, etc., which skill does (s)he need to achieve this rate?
Totally agree here, non-academic skills are very fiddly with codifying success in prose. Practical evaluations may be more indicative, as the above shooting contest results indicate.
Again, how many such people can you find in a city/planet/whatever?

Of course, skills like tactics or leadership, with less clear results, are more difficult to evaluate this way...
The idea that one character can know what skills are on another character's character sheet is inherently dodgy. You can know that a character has a PhD or CPA or scored perfect at the shooting range, but knowing that they have Ship Tactics 3 is impossible without extensive evaluation.
 
My understanding was that medical doctors had, by the time they finished training and internships and everything else required for a professional license, giving them the right to be known as "doctor", had roughly the same education and time invested (10-15 years according to google) as PhD doctors.
Fact is, for whatever reason, people finishing the medical university are called doctors, even while they don’t have a doctorate, only a licenciature (or however is called in each country). A character finishing the Medical School in CharGen is 26 years old, so he has not invested the 10-15 years you say. Most who make a doctorate do it while working too (at least those I’ve known, who are not a few, me being a nurse).

As per medical skill, I’ve always have assumed, talking in Spanish terms, level 0 to be a first aid trainee, level 1 a nursing auxiliary, level 2 a nurse, level 3 a doctor, level 4 a specialist and further levels a better one, or a doctor with more than one specialty (I’ve also known a few)

Another example out of medical field:

According CT:LBB4 mercenary (pages 26-27), basic training for troops require one level of instruction skill per 6 trainees, and if two instructors work together they add 1 to their combined skills. For simplicity in this example, I’ll assume each instructor that joins adds another level to combined skills, instead of adding one per two instructors (whis means more skill levels are added).

When I joined the Spanish Army (then compulsory) I was sent to a training camp for the basic instruction. IIRC there were less than 10 instructors (I remember 2 officers, 2 NCOs, 3 Lance Sergeants, 3 Corporals) in my company, for 216 trainees.

While applying the rules as written 10 instructors would add 5 levels to their total, using it as I said above would mean adding 9 levels, so 54 recruits trained. That leaves 158 recruits, which would need 27 levels of instruction, so an average of skill 2.7 per instructors. As about half of them were also conscripts that I assume had lower level, it’s quite probable at least one of the NCOs or officers would have level 4+, and be sure they were not known figures outside the camp /other companies were likewise, and we didn’t even know the ones in them).

See also that high levels renown may be among specific circles. A great game designer (let’s say MWM) may be worldwide know among the gaming circles, and a true unknown outside them…

So maybe the exact description is in error and skill 4 is 'best in Pop 4 area', so that's any grouping of a 10 thousand or more. Or 'Pop 3 area' Statistically, if skill table is selected randomly and skills are rolled, you can expect about 1 Skill-4 per thousand people. Very roughly.
Following this way of thinking, I could say, as a rule of thumb, that the best in the world (or community) to have a skill level about pop digit… Of course level 9 is exceptional, but we’d be talking about the best in current RW, and I guess if you generate 4 billion characters (half the current world population, assuming the other half not having reached the age) you'll have at least one in each skill ;)
 
Fact is, for whatever reason, people finishing the medical university are called doctors, even while they don’t have a doctorate, only a licenciature (or however is called in each country). A character finishing the Medical School in CharGen is 26 years old, so he has not invested the 10-15 years you say. Most who make a doctorate do it while working too (at least those I’ve known, who are not a few, me being a nurse).
That time chargen requirement in-game implies chargen is more generous than RL (which ought to be suspicious). I, personally, consider anyone licensed to practice medicine to have as much knowledge (if not the sheepskins) as a PhD-doctor and certainly due the same honors. My understanding is that in RL, finishing medical school is only one part of becoming a fully certified doctor. Residency and other practical bits come after? You'd know that better than I do.
As per medical skill, I’ve always have assumed, talking in Spanish terms, level 0 to be a first aid trainee, level 1 a nursing auxiliary, level 2 a nurse, level 3 a doctor, level 4 a specialist and further levels a better one, or a doctor with more than one specialty (I’ve also known a few)
I will concur with those ratings, though 'nurse' is a pretty broad term and covers a lot of things, and where is an EMT on that scale? Probably a 1 or a 2. I tend to imagine most small ship doctors are Medical 1-2 people trying to fulfill a practical section of their MD qualification.
Another example out of medical field:

According CT:LBB4 mercenary (pages 26-27), basic training for troops require one level of instruction skill per 6 trainees, and if two instructors work together they add 1 to their combined skills. For simplicity in this example, I’ll assume each instructor that joins adds another level to combined skills, instead of adding one per two instructors (whis means more skill levels are added).

When I joined the Spanish Army (then compulsory) I was sent to a training camp for the basic instruction. IIRC there were less than 10 instructors (I remember 2 officers, 2 NCOs, 3 Lance Sergeants, 3 Corporals) in my company, for 216 trainees.

While applying the rules as written 10 instructors would add 5 levels to their total, using it as I said above would mean adding 9 levels, so 54 recruits trained. That leaves 158 recruits, which would need 27 levels of instruction, so an average of skill 2.7 per instructors. As about half of them were also conscripts that I assume had lower level, it’s quite probable at least one of the NCOs or officers would have level 4+, and be sure they were not known figures outside the camp /other companies were likewise, and we didn’t even know the ones in them).

See also that high levels renown may be among specific circles. A great game designer (let’s say MWM) may be worldwide know among the gaming circles, and a true unknown outside them…
I was on a Destroyer in the Navy and we had what was called an Independent Duty Corpsman, which was basically a not-quite doctor who was qualified to tend to whatever emergencies a ship of 350 or so could drum up, without an actual MD-type doctor anywhere nearby. I'm going to guess that'd be a level 2 Doc.

Actual MD-type doctors are all officers, though at what stage in their careers I'm not sure. The US military did (at the time, no idea about now) allow people to attend medical school in exchange for a term of required service as actual MD-type doctors. They generally got Instant-O3 out of the deal, I understood.
Following this way of thinking, I could say, as a rule of thumb, that the best in the world (or community) to have a skill level about pop digit… Of course level 9 is exceptional, but we’d be talking about the best in current RW, and I guess if you generate 4 billion characters (half the current world population, assuming the other half not having reached the age) you'll have at least one in each skill ;)
So comparing random rolls, the chance of 4 random rolls coming out to the same skill is about 1 in a thousand given 3 tables to roll on and 1d6 on each table, coming out to one specific skill is closer to 1 in 5,000. But that's not really a fair comparison because theoretically people don't select skills randomly. They go to school intending to study one area, or they go into one specific trade, and while life happens, they often try to keep focus on their goals. So 'best in a <region>' shouldn't be based on the odds of something coming up randomly, but on actual world-building choices and definitions, which is what I had been looking for.
 
One skill progression example would be the CT speculation broker available per starport level. Starport A gets you the option for a max Broker-4, starport B a Broker-3 etc.

Not tied to pop per se, but to ‘market demand’ on how much distribution activity is occurring independent of the world’s economic potential.

Note also the compensation is considerably different per skill level. Maybe translated, Skill-0 is intern/working passage, Skill-1 is 50% salary, Skill-2 is normal, Skill-3 is 150% salary, Skill-4 is 200% salary etc.
 
I will concur with those ratings, though 'nurse' is a pretty broad term and covers a lot of things, and where is an EMT on that scale?

That's why specified I based it on Spanish situation: there are no recognized EMTs in Spain.

While there are some certifications to work at an ambulance, the role of what in US is a paramedic, with licence to apply drugs, start IVs and so is filled by nurses.
 
So comparing random rolls, the chance of 4 random rolls coming out to the same skill is about 1 in a thousand given 3 tables to roll on and 1d6 on each table, coming out to one specific skill is closer to 1 in 5,000.
Sure, but several tables have a skill repeated, while some skills appear quite rarely on them...

And I'm talking about 4 billion characters ;)
 
That's why specified I based it on Spanish situation: there are no recognized EMTs in Spain.

While there are some certifications to work at an ambulance, the role of what in US is a paramedic, with licence to apply drugs, start IVs and so is filled by nurses.
Fair enough, that doesn't really change any of the statements.
Sure, but several tables have a skill repeated, while some skills appear quite rarely on them...

And I'm talking about 4 billion characters ;)
Well, repeated skill entries of course changes the numbers. As does a larger group size.

But, I'll repeat that this isn't an attempt to quantify how often skills are rolled up to a certain level randomly. I'm looking for a definition of skill frequency in the official traveller universe. Or an official traveller universe. 5 is best in _______. 6 is best in __________. Like that.
 
I'm looking for a definition of skill frequency in the official traveller universe. Or an official traveller universe. 5 is best in _______. 6 is best in __________. Like that.

Well, I'm not sure who can give you this official answer...

As I already said, I'd use, as a rule of thumb, the skill level to be "the best in" as the pop digit. So, skill 1 would be the best in 10, while skill 5 would be the best in 100 000, while level 6 the best in a million.

If you want to refine it by the rarity of the skill, count only the affected population (e.g. Ship Tactics 5 would be the best among 100 000 Navy personnel, not among 100 000 population).
 
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Well, I'm not sure who can give you this official answer...
I had thought my previous discovery came from here, or the wiki. I was hoping someone would recall where it was buried.
As I already said, I'd use, as a rule of thumb, the skill level to be "the best in" as the pop digit. So, skill 1 would be the best in 10, while skill 5 would be the best in 100 000, while level 6 the best in a million.
Seems reasonable.
If you want to refine it by the rarity of the skill, count only the affected population (e.g. Ship Tactics 5 would be the best among 100 000 Navy personnel, not among 100 000 population).
Ship tactics is pretty much only available to command-level officers, so tactics 5 would be best among 100,000 O-6 and above. That's probably no one, or like one person Imperium-wide. But yes, rarity among people that it's possible they can have it. It wouldn't be available to Drifters or the like at all.
 
So comparing random rolls, the chance of 4 random rolls coming out to the same skill is about 1 in a thousand given 3 tables to roll on and 1d6 on each table, coming out to one specific skill is closer to 1 in 5,000. But that's not really a fair comparison because theoretically people don't select skills randomly. They go to school intending to study one area, or they go into one specific trade, and while life happens, they often try to keep focus on their goals. So 'best in a <region>' shouldn't be based on the odds of something coming up randomly, but on actual world-building choices and definitions, which is what I had been looking for.
On that point, I offer my house chargen tweaks.

CT B1/S4 with some skills broadened and redefined (so Liaison, Recruiting and Bribery becomes Persuade, FO gets converted into Recon, Forgery into Deception which is a base skill for actors etc.).

An additional advanced skill table requiring INT 8+ and offers odd but useful additional skills a career needs, including Instruction.

3 base skill rolls per term, first skill rolled is skill-0, progresses 1 2 3 on subsequent rolls. Gets more personal dev roll potential plus something more akin to B4+ without skill bloat. I value UPP characteristics more highly then most so that can be a choice factor.

And relative to your people make choices, players roll die then select any skill that has that number on tables they qualify for. So they get agency but more for opportunities rather than minmaxed GURPS designed.
 
I had a friend who's Dad was an MD, and he had a saying: "You know what they call the person who graduated at the bottom of the class? Doctor."

In grad school (for clinical psychology), I was sweating the idea that I might get a B in one of my classes and my advisor (coincidently the program head) told me exactly the same thing except it was phrased as "who gets all B's" - it definitely adjusted the level of sweat being produced.

D.
 
In grad school (for clinical psychology), I was sweating the idea that I might get a B in one of my classes and my advisor (coincidently the program head) told me exactly the same thing except it was phrased as "who gets all B's" - it definitely adjusted the level of sweat being produced.

D.
Schools definitely provide a minimum of education, though I think that different people get different things from it. Such as I can work on things without being able to see it, visualizing it in my head; someone saw me reach around the cowl to fix an engine, and asked how I learned that. "I don't know" I answered, "see with my hands I guess." Engineering school helped, esp with theory, though I have also had people watch me and say I'm a "natural." Kind of like zen meditation with extra cussing, grunting, big hammers, and prybars. lol

One thing I will add is that skill levels are for characters, and wouldn't necessarily match the general population; historically looking at the biography of adventurer type people, they are often "above average."
 
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