smoothing the transition to MT

[daryen]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Liam, as an alternative, it has flaws. I prefer the DGP version, as...

If you like the DGP version, why are you asking for alternatives?

But, guys Margaret is already married to the Turkey guy. It would take the pervert Lucan to actual propose to Margaret.

Well, in the referenced situation, the Tukera guy is irrelevant, as he is dead. Strephon and Margaret are then free to marry. Also, Margaret has already had Strephon's children by then, so Strephon (and, by extension, Margaret) should both be well past their respective mourning periods.

But, if you want to stick as closely as possible to the DGP setup, then the one change I would make is to have Lucan be sane. Sure, he is still a murdering little creep, but he is NOT insane. Lucan can then realize that the best way to win all of the factions back is to ignore them and kill Dulinor.

Therefore, he makes sure he never attacks any of the factions other than Dulinor. He knows that if he leaves the other factions alone, they will likely leave him alone and function as effective (and temporary) border states. Once he finally kills Dulinor, they will fall in line pretty quickly.

As for the Moot, he doesn't have to imprison and kill them. He hopes for a quick confirmation and, when that doesn't come, he just makes sure they don't pick anyone else. Go ahead and let them say whatever they want, the Navy is behind him. Contain the Moot, but don't persecute them.

He can then reign as a "Regent", holding the throne for the eventual emperor. Once Dulinor is disposed of, he will pretty much be the only alternative.

From a meta-game level, the biggest change I would ask for is knowing the end before starting the beginning. DGP's biggest failing with the Rebellion setting is that they only made a setup. They never made an ending. Since they had no idea where to take the Rebellion, they let it get so out of hand that then only real solution that was finally available was to just kill everyone and start again.

[Edit: To be clear, I want the AUTHORS to know where the story is going, not me/the audience. Unfortunately, they didn't.]

Very poor planning.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Liam, as an alternative, it has flaws. I prefer the DGP version, as...

If you like the DGP version, why are you asking for alternatives?

But, guys Margaret is already married to the Turkey guy. It would take the pervert Lucan to actual propose to Margaret.

Well, in the referenced situation, the Tukera guy is irrelevant, as he is dead. Strephon and Margaret are then free to marry. Also, Margaret has already had Strephon's children by then, so Strephon (and, by extension, Margaret) should both be well past their respective mourning periods.

But, if you want to stick as closely as possible to the DGP setup, then the one change I would make is to have Lucan be sane. Sure, he is still a murdering little creep, but he is NOT insane. Lucan can then realize that the best way to win all of the factions back is to ignore them and kill Dulinor.

Therefore, he makes sure he never attacks any of the factions other than Dulinor. He knows that if he leaves the other factions alone, they will likely leave him alone and function as effective (and temporary) border states. Once he finally kills Dulinor, they will fall in line pretty quickly.

As for the Moot, he doesn't have to imprison and kill them. He hopes for a quick confirmation and, when that doesn't come, he just makes sure they don't pick anyone else. Go ahead and let them say whatever they want, the Navy is behind him. Contain the Moot, but don't persecute them.

He can then reign as a "Regent", holding the throne for the eventual emperor. Once Dulinor is disposed of, he will pretty much be the only alternative.

From a meta-game level, the biggest change I would ask for is knowing the end before starting the beginning. DGP's biggest failing with the Rebellion setting is that they only made a setup. They never made an ending. Since they had no idea where to take the Rebellion, they let it get so out of hand that then only real solution that was finally available was to just kill everyone and start again.

[Edit: To be clear, I want the AUTHORS to know where the story is going, not me/the audience. Unfortunately, they didn't.]

Very poor planning.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Okies, here goes my .000000125Mcr worth (yes the decimal is in the right place!!!!Bean counters take heed!LOL)

Let an old heretic see what he may muddle with (going with agreement on Mr Daryen & Plopl01's lines concerning the end was never looked at and we muddled thru 3 phases of rebellion with what we now have as OTU)..

Lets go with Dulinor as the 56th century macbeth..
kk?
Lets keep Lucan alive (and not cleanly whack him, as I suggested previously). And lets say he's not insane (which I did not subscribe to in the first place).
he's young, and untrained and makes his bungles early on...(the Corridor fleet/ Old expanses Fleet orders, etc)--"Crush Dulinor" Orders...

Now-- rather than use the Holo-Vargr messiah hat trick, I'd prefer a plausible Genghis khan vargr of Charisma who has steadily been uniting the fractious vargr states into one HORDE. Have them Swamp into Corridor--

NOW--rather than an Ihatei invasion of Trojan reaches- we have An Aslan Hierate JIHAD after the throne room Aslan Ambassador was slain by an Imperial--Dulinor, ye may remember).
the Ihatei followes the JIHAD fleet--

the Solomani angle invasion-leave as is.

This still ties down the RIm fleets to containing the blitzkrieg, and loss of terra..

Craig up to his arse in alligators in Daibei does as scheduled..he forms his own because of Lucan's demands in 1118.

BRZK to show loyalty, and save vargr Imperial wide from suspicion, throws his lot in with Lucan
(The HORDE, remember? think what we did to the japanese-BRZK doesn't want vargr pogroms!).


Margaret's parting is both economical, and political as rumors of Varian's true death gets out..
BUT, she doesn't FIGHT Lucan.
Lucan, while young and dumb, might resent this..but he's not being attacked by her-figures with BRZK, and the LEY Gateway Sectors secure- he can concentrate on Dulinor.

Much as I like Strephon- Kill him, and the clones.

Vland, traditional stolid Vland, defends the emperor by attacking the coreward side of the Horde's Corridor invasion.

Dulinor, (with no Strephon) Makes great strides into Zarushagar/ Gushmege/ daguudashaag., and this HUGE salient will take time to be reduced.

Norris in the marches cannot send aide, because he has two major INVASIONS, led by ASLAN frontline stuff/ commanders, (and being "resettled in its wake by Ihatei"), and the largest VARGR FLEET ever assembled...
By the time Norris cuts his way and links up with VLAND, and the ASLAN FLEET repelled/ and the retaking of seized worlds is beginning,

Dulinor is on the dfensive--As none of the other factions came to his aide..he will eventually be cotrnered and done away with.

Once Corridor is clear/ and the Trojans restabilized, the SM/denebian fleets are further tied down occupying Corridor in the absence of the sixteen fleets assigned it, now heavily dmamaged in the Imperial fratricide of the Zarushagar/Gushmege/Ilelish campaigns..

Lucan sends Dulinor's head to the Aslan and the JIHAD ends.

The Vargr Genghis khan is killed in battle, and the Horde falls back..

Leaving only the Solomani to deal with--
yes, the Imperium was "broken", but its not destroyed...BUT as ususal, the Imperiumn, once united, is a juggernaut the SOllies cannae defeat.


Margaret's having Strephon's kids results in a Lucan regency (emperor in name only).
he denies her rulership- so he wins too!)

New era- Strephon's kids take over.


THATS what I would do..
YMMV.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Okies, here goes my .000000125Mcr worth (yes the decimal is in the right place!!!!Bean counters take heed!LOL)

Let an old heretic see what he may muddle with (going with agreement on Mr Daryen & Plopl01's lines concerning the end was never looked at and we muddled thru 3 phases of rebellion with what we now have as OTU)..

Lets go with Dulinor as the 56th century macbeth..
kk?
Lets keep Lucan alive (and not cleanly whack him, as I suggested previously). And lets say he's not insane (which I did not subscribe to in the first place).
he's young, and untrained and makes his bungles early on...(the Corridor fleet/ Old expanses Fleet orders, etc)--"Crush Dulinor" Orders...

Now-- rather than use the Holo-Vargr messiah hat trick, I'd prefer a plausible Genghis khan vargr of Charisma who has steadily been uniting the fractious vargr states into one HORDE. Have them Swamp into Corridor--

NOW--rather than an Ihatei invasion of Trojan reaches- we have An Aslan Hierate JIHAD after the throne room Aslan Ambassador was slain by an Imperial--Dulinor, ye may remember).
the Ihatei followes the JIHAD fleet--

the Solomani angle invasion-leave as is.

This still ties down the RIm fleets to containing the blitzkrieg, and loss of terra..

Craig up to his arse in alligators in Daibei does as scheduled..he forms his own because of Lucan's demands in 1118.

BRZK to show loyalty, and save vargr Imperial wide from suspicion, throws his lot in with Lucan
(The HORDE, remember? think what we did to the japanese-BRZK doesn't want vargr pogroms!).


Margaret's parting is both economical, and political as rumors of Varian's true death gets out..
BUT, she doesn't FIGHT Lucan.
Lucan, while young and dumb, might resent this..but he's not being attacked by her-figures with BRZK, and the LEY Gateway Sectors secure- he can concentrate on Dulinor.

Much as I like Strephon- Kill him, and the clones.

Vland, traditional stolid Vland, defends the emperor by attacking the coreward side of the Horde's Corridor invasion.

Dulinor, (with no Strephon) Makes great strides into Zarushagar/ Gushmege/ daguudashaag., and this HUGE salient will take time to be reduced.

Norris in the marches cannot send aide, because he has two major INVASIONS, led by ASLAN frontline stuff/ commanders, (and being "resettled in its wake by Ihatei"), and the largest VARGR FLEET ever assembled...
By the time Norris cuts his way and links up with VLAND, and the ASLAN FLEET repelled/ and the retaking of seized worlds is beginning,

Dulinor is on the dfensive--As none of the other factions came to his aide..he will eventually be cotrnered and done away with.

Once Corridor is clear/ and the Trojans restabilized, the SM/denebian fleets are further tied down occupying Corridor in the absence of the sixteen fleets assigned it, now heavily dmamaged in the Imperial fratricide of the Zarushagar/Gushmege/Ilelish campaigns..

Lucan sends Dulinor's head to the Aslan and the JIHAD ends.

The Vargr Genghis khan is killed in battle, and the Horde falls back..

Leaving only the Solomani to deal with--
yes, the Imperium was "broken", but its not destroyed...BUT as ususal, the Imperiumn, once united, is a juggernaut the SOllies cannae defeat.


Margaret's having Strephon's kids results in a Lucan regency (emperor in name only).
he denies her rulership- so he wins too!)

New era- Strephon's kids take over.


THATS what I would do..
YMMV.

 

[Ranger]

Well, here is another option that avoids the classic rebellion but leads to a more conflicted setting. (Personally, I am partial to the Wounded Collosus timeline if it has to go that direction, but that timeline starts after the assasination attempt.) This is just a thumbnail sketch of a scenario I have been playing with since this thread appeared.

The Canon time line flows into the FFW. To fight the war, the IN has to shift forces into the Marches. To ensure the proper garrisoning of the border regions regular fleets are moved from the interior to the border to back fill fleets moved to the front. This forces local reserve fleets to stand up and take the place of regular Navy units.

Here is where the time line diverges. The reserve fleets organized and under the control of local nobles (in line with some canon sources). These local nobles begin to use the absense of the IN regular forces and their new found monopoly on naval power to improve their overall economic an political positions. This leads to small clashes that eventualy devolve into a chaotic enviroment that reduces trade and Imperial revenue.

Rumors spread outside the Imperium that it is in chaos and collapse in imenent. Though this is an exageration of the situation, all of the border states with outstanding issues begin agressive probing of the border to test the Imperium's power and health. The FFW wraps up as per the canon timeline, but the effects in the interior of the Imperium are a slowly spreading anarchy in interstellar society. Without the IN to keep the nobels honest, the fabric of the interstellar system begins to come appart.

Strephon demands that Dullinor get the situation under control. Dullinor protests that he needs regular Navy forces to confront the nobles and their reserve fleets. He requests the return of forces posted to the border to restore order. Strephon tells him that those forces are pinned on the border by agressive neighbors. Dullinor must gather loyal nobles and put together a force to restore order.

Dullinor negotiates with local nobles to build a force. Their key demand is that they must be allowed to keep what ever economic or political advances they have achived through the use of their reserve forces over the last three years. Dullinor reluctantly agrees, but also makes one last request for regular Naval forces to avoid having to cut such a deal.

The only force that the Imperial Navy has available is the Capitol Fleet, the Emperor's personal resreve force. Strephon, having lost confidance in Dullinor to resolve the problem, decides to take the Capitol fleet Dullinor's domain and deal with the problem himself.

At this point you have lots of conflict. All the border areas, except the Marches, where the Zhos have been beeten. Each Archduke is engaged in defending their own domain, and you have a rather fluid situation with Dullinor trying to put together some kind of force to deal with the rebellious nobles and defend himself from Strephon. Political intrieg would be rife once the Emperor left Capitol with the fleet, with the various factions positioning themselves for maximum advantage and making political bets on the outcome of the pacification campaign.

Just some thoughts about how you could get a more conflicted Imperium without the 'classic' rebellion time line.

Rob

 

[Ranger]

Well, here is another option that avoids the classic rebellion but leads to a more conflicted setting. (Personally, I am partial to the Wounded Collosus timeline if it has to go that direction, but that timeline starts after the assasination attempt.) This is just a thumbnail sketch of a scenario I have been playing with since this thread appeared.

The Canon time line flows into the FFW. To fight the war, the IN has to shift forces into the Marches. To ensure the proper garrisoning of the border regions regular fleets are moved from the interior to the border to back fill fleets moved to the front. This forces local reserve fleets to stand up and take the place of regular Navy units.

Here is where the time line diverges. The reserve fleets organized and under the control of local nobles (in line with some canon sources). These local nobles begin to use the absense of the IN regular forces and their new found monopoly on naval power to improve their overall economic an political positions. This leads to small clashes that eventualy devolve into a chaotic enviroment that reduces trade and Imperial revenue.

Rumors spread outside the Imperium that it is in chaos and collapse in imenent. Though this is an exageration of the situation, all of the border states with outstanding issues begin agressive probing of the border to test the Imperium's power and health. The FFW wraps up as per the canon timeline, but the effects in the interior of the Imperium are a slowly spreading anarchy in interstellar society. Without the IN to keep the nobels honest, the fabric of the interstellar system begins to come appart.

Strephon demands that Dullinor get the situation under control. Dullinor protests that he needs regular Navy forces to confront the nobles and their reserve fleets. He requests the return of forces posted to the border to restore order. Strephon tells him that those forces are pinned on the border by agressive neighbors. Dullinor must gather loyal nobles and put together a force to restore order.

Dullinor negotiates with local nobles to build a force. Their key demand is that they must be allowed to keep what ever economic or political advances they have achived through the use of their reserve forces over the last three years. Dullinor reluctantly agrees, but also makes one last request for regular Naval forces to avoid having to cut such a deal.

The only force that the Imperial Navy has available is the Capitol Fleet, the Emperor's personal resreve force. Strephon, having lost confidance in Dullinor to resolve the problem, decides to take the Capitol fleet Dullinor's domain and deal with the problem himself.

At this point you have lots of conflict. All the border areas, except the Marches, where the Zhos have been beeten. Each Archduke is engaged in defending their own domain, and you have a rather fluid situation with Dullinor trying to put together some kind of force to deal with the rebellious nobles and defend himself from Strephon. Political intrieg would be rife once the Emperor left Capitol with the fleet, with the various factions positioning themselves for maximum advantage and making political bets on the outcome of the pacification campaign.

Just some thoughts about how you could get a more conflicted Imperium without the 'classic' rebellion time line.

Rob

 

[Sophiathegreen]

Lucan is in a very bad position as he is seeming by alot of people as murdering his bother to gain the throne, he occupt a central position which mean he must leave enought fleets at his board to stop any attack by factions around him. There is widespead rejection of Lucan and he is well know for being insane. It Margaret Faction see Lucan pulling all the fleets from the frontline near her line she will move in to fill the vaccum. Alots of the world will simple
surrend to her without than fight as they rejected Lucan as regeant. Margaret is more policial and diplomatically shrew than Lucan and diplomatic skills
can win over fleets and other assets without fighting for them.

 

[Sophiathegreen]

Lucan is in a very bad position as he is seeming by alot of people as murdering his bother to gain the throne, he occupt a central position which mean he must leave enought fleets at his board to stop any attack by factions around him. There is widespead rejection of Lucan and he is well know for being insane. It Margaret Faction see Lucan pulling all the fleets from the frontline near her line she will move in to fill the vaccum. Alots of the world will simple
surrend to her without than fight as they rejected Lucan as regeant. Margaret is more policial and diplomatically shrew than Lucan and diplomatic skills
can win over fleets and other assets without fighting for them.

 

[Sophiathegreen]

I really think they want to end the Noble control Traveller Imperium. First they started this without knowing how it going to ended. Second they did this Rebellion thing to get more sell's for they material and then they ended Classic traveller which piss off half they customer base.

 

[Sophiathegreen]

I really think they want to end the Noble control Traveller Imperium. First they started this without knowing how it going to ended. Second they did this Rebellion thing to get more sell's for they material and then they ended Classic traveller which piss off half they customer base.

 

[TRAV]

Since this is in the CT area, how many of you actually currently run campaigns set in the time of the rebellion? I run pbems only so it will be a long time before I have to deal with it. I personally prefer the times of the LBBs, this may be a simplistic way of dealing with a GDW marketing ploy but to me the rebellion is not Traveller and it was a bad idea to foist on us in the first place.

My 2 cents...

 

[TRAV]

Since this is in the CT area, how many of you actually currently run campaigns set in the time of the rebellion? I run pbems only so it will be a long time before I have to deal with it. I personally prefer the times of the LBBs, this may be a simplistic way of dealing with a GDW marketing ploy but to me the rebellion is not Traveller and it was a bad idea to foist on us in the first place.

My 2 cents...

 

[daryen]

The idea of the Rebellion was not necessarily bad. While there are lots of us that prefer the CT (or GT) setting, the fact of the matter is that many do not.

At the time, GDW was constantly bombarded by fans who just hated the "static", "boring" setting where nothing ever changed. They were tired of the characters being able to have no influence on the grand stage. They were always relegated to "little things" while the great, unchanging Imperium hung in the background.

As a comparison, that is one of the great attractions of TNE. In TNE, individual characters can make or break entire empires. Granted the empires are a couple of subsectors (max), but character actions can really *mean* something.

 

[daryen]

The idea of the Rebellion was not necessarily bad. While there are lots of us that prefer the CT (or GT) setting, the fact of the matter is that many do not.

At the time, GDW was constantly bombarded by fans who just hated the "static", "boring" setting where nothing ever changed. They were tired of the characters being able to have no influence on the grand stage. They were always relegated to "little things" while the great, unchanging Imperium hung in the background.

As a comparison, that is one of the great attractions of TNE. In TNE, individual characters can make or break entire empires. Granted the empires are a couple of subsectors (max), but character actions can really *mean* something.

 

[Sophiathegreen]

Than less messing way of going into megratraveller would say That Strephon double was kill along with his wife and daughter. Also both Varian and Lucan where killed by Dulinor. Dulinor flee Capitial as he was unable to hold it at all. The Moot met to decise who will be the next rular. They discover that Margaret have than solid claim to the Throne. Since she was on her estates in the Deiphi Sector they order the Navy to sent than entire fleet to escort her to Capitol in the Core Sector. Before the fleet arrise Dulinor assian try to kill her, her hushand gave up his life to save her by killing the two hire killer. Since she has no children or her own and her hushand have a problem getting any woman pregeant. When the Fleet final came with the bad new of what happen on Capital She decide to have her personal doctor inpregeant her with Strephon seeds. Then she went with the fleet back to capital. The decesion to be impregeant with Strephon seeds is not meant to demean her beloved dead hushand but need for than heir is very inportant to the Empire well being. She decide than
blockade of Dulinor territory with squadrons where mobilized from thoughtout the rest of the empire to
fill out the siege lines. Than some fleets from the old exanses, diaspora, massila, and deiphi sector
where sent to the solomani rim sector occup by the empire to sent than message to the Solomani Confederation to stay out of empire territory. Strephon was inform of what was going on decide to stay in hideing an fact he join the impoerial navy
as than fleet admiral to help support Margaret effector to keep the empire together. The Solomani Confederation got Margaret message than called off
they invadion plans totally. They called her the Iron Lady. Slowly the fleet round Dulinor territory
slowly took system by system back from Dulinor. Strephon then left the Imperial Navy and make his way back to the capital. There he sent Margaret privates e-mail message letting her know that he is still alive and that he support her as Empress. They messages back and forth and they love for each other grew and she final told the Moot that Strephon was still alive an they are getting marry
soon.

 

[Sophiathegreen]

Than less messing way of going into megratraveller would say That Strephon double was kill along with his wife and daughter. Also both Varian and Lucan where killed by Dulinor. Dulinor flee Capitial as he was unable to hold it at all. The Moot met to decise who will be the next rular. They discover that Margaret have than solid claim to the Throne. Since she was on her estates in the Deiphi Sector they order the Navy to sent than entire fleet to escort her to Capitol in the Core Sector. Before the fleet arrise Dulinor assian try to kill her, her hushand gave up his life to save her by killing the two hire killer. Since she has no children or her own and her hushand have a problem getting any woman pregeant. When the Fleet final came with the bad new of what happen on Capital She decide to have her personal doctor inpregeant her with Strephon seeds. Then she went with the fleet back to capital. The decesion to be impregeant with Strephon seeds is not meant to demean her beloved dead hushand but need for than heir is very inportant to the Empire well being. She decide than
blockade of Dulinor territory with squadrons where mobilized from thoughtout the rest of the empire to
fill out the siege lines. Than some fleets from the old exanses, diaspora, massila, and deiphi sector
where sent to the solomani rim sector occup by the empire to sent than message to the Solomani Confederation to stay out of empire territory. Strephon was inform of what was going on decide to stay in hideing an fact he join the impoerial navy
as than fleet admiral to help support Margaret effector to keep the empire together. The Solomani Confederation got Margaret message than called off
they invadion plans totally. They called her the Iron Lady. Slowly the fleet round Dulinor territory
slowly took system by system back from Dulinor. Strephon then left the Imperial Navy and make his way back to the capital. There he sent Margaret privates e-mail message letting her know that he is still alive and that he support her as Empress. They messages back and forth and they love for each other grew and she final told the Moot that Strephon was still alive an they are getting marry
soon.

 

[TRAV]

The idea of the Rebellion was not necessarily bad. While there are lots of us that prefer the CT (or GT) setting, the fact of the matter is that many do not.

That may well be so but it did seem to signal the long night for Traveller. The primary cause for a revival if we are indeed seeing it is people who played CT/MT coming back for more. I may be wrong, I dont have facts to back this up just an opinion. Traveller may have been dead by the time MT came out but MT TNE T4 T20 ad infinitem do not seem to be as popular as CT was in the 80s. Not dissing Traveller just dissapointed. It seems things I like die fast, like Firefly, not even one whole season and poof!

My 2 centavos

 

[TRAV]

The idea of the Rebellion was not necessarily bad. While there are lots of us that prefer the CT (or GT) setting, the fact of the matter is that many do not.

That may well be so but it did seem to signal the long night for Traveller. The primary cause for a revival if we are indeed seeing it is people who played CT/MT coming back for more. I may be wrong, I dont have facts to back this up just an opinion. Traveller may have been dead by the time MT came out but MT TNE T4 T20 ad infinitem do not seem to be as popular as CT was in the 80s. Not dissing Traveller just dissapointed. It seems things I like die fast, like Firefly, not even one whole season and poof!

My 2 centavos

 

[Sophiathegreen]

Originally posted by TRAV:
The idea of the Rebellion was not necessarily bad. While there are lots of us that prefer the CT (or GT) setting, the fact of the matter is that many do not.

That may well be so but it did seem to signal the long night for Traveller. The primary cause for a revival if we are indeed seeing it is people who played CT/MT coming back for more. I may be wrong, I dont have facts to back this up just an opinion. Traveller may have been dead by the time MT came out but MT TNE T4 T20 ad infinitem do not seem to be as popular as CT was in the 80s. Not dissing Traveller just dissapointed. It seems things I like die fast, like Firefly, not even one whole season and poof!

My 2 centavos

It is not only Traveller that die in the 80's but all science-fiction role playing game like Space opera and Gamma World and Aftermath.

 

[Sophiathegreen]

Originally posted by TRAV:
The idea of the Rebellion was not necessarily bad. While there are lots of us that prefer the CT (or GT) setting, the fact of the matter is that many do not.

That may well be so but it did seem to signal the long night for Traveller. The primary cause for a revival if we are indeed seeing it is people who played CT/MT coming back for more. I may be wrong, I dont have facts to back this up just an opinion. Traveller may have been dead by the time MT came out but MT TNE T4 T20 ad infinitem do not seem to be as popular as CT was in the 80s. Not dissing Traveller just dissapointed. It seems things I like die fast, like Firefly, not even one whole season and poof!

My 2 centavos

It is not only Traveller that die in the 80's but all science-fiction role playing game like Space opera and Gamma World and Aftermath.