social standing

[flykiller]

traveller has the personal stat, "social standing". it plays little explicated role in the game. this post is a bare-bones outline of how to make it relevant. add, subtract, and adjust as you see fit.

regardless of ostensible qualifications and personal protestation, not everyone is suitable for full citizenship in even a small society. in a high-tech society of hundreds of cultures and hundreds billions of participants of unknown provenence and motivation, the wrong person in the wrong position can have devastating consequences. a system for designating levels of participation, of suitability, of trust - of citizenship - is necessary.

"social status" (2 low, 12 high) refers to citizenship status - the stake held in society, the level of trust accorded, the level of authority deemed appropriate. it is not a measure of felt personal loyalty, but rather a measure of officially perceived standing. one may have a social standing of 2 and be thought loyal, and yet be thought unsuited (note, NOT "unqualified") to hold for example the rank of infantry corporal.

lvl   legal            military   personal weapons   economics          skills
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0   traitor/outlaw   -          -
  1   criminal         -          -
  2                    private    combatives         low passage
  3                    corporal
  4                               blades             business license
  5                    sergeant                      middle passage
  6                               simple firearms    brokerage          computer
  7                                                                     robotics
  8                    officer    complex firearms                      pilot
  9                                                  high passage
 10   voter            captain    energy weapons     ship owner
 11   
 12                    admiral                       ceo
 13   citizen of the imperium, no restrictions except by direction of nobility

(such a system implies a method of evaluation and tracking and assignment of social standing. this may be influenced by planet of origin, known cultural issues, family standing, awards received, time in regular service, "special service to the empire", etc)

(need not be unitary, but may have multiple expressions - planetary, corporate, alien, honorary, and imperial (shipboard, port, off-port). also may be provisional or localized - e.g. a japanese cop tells los angeles cops, in tokyo, "gentlemen, you are civilians here".)

(need not be absolute - e.g. an admiral may carry a laser pistol, but only if he has received requisite training.)

 

[kilemall]

Don't know that people would agree with your characterization as OTU and/or IMTUs likely differ, especially the voters/citizens part.

Might consider my variant of SOC - Law Level = LL for allowed weapons at least.

 

[BlackBat242]

"social status" (2 low, 12 high) refers to citizenship status - the stake held in society, the level of trust accorded, the level of authority deemed appropriate. it is not a measure of felt personal loyalty, but rather a measure of officially perceived standing. one may have a social standing of 2 and be thought loyal, and yet be thought unsuited (note, NOT "unqualified") to hold for example the rank of infantry corporal.

lvl   legal            military   personal weapons   economics          skills
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  0   traitor/outlaw   -          -
  1   criminal         -          -
  2                    private    combatives
  3                    corporal
  4                               blades             business license
  5                    sergeant                      middle passage
  6                               simple firearms    brokerage          computer
  7                                                                     robotics
  8                    officer    complex firearms                      pilot
  9                                                  high passage
 10   voter            captain    energy weapons     ship owner
 11   
 12                    admiral                       ceo
 13   citizen of the imperium, no restrictions except by direction of nobility

I think that is taking the "age-of-sail-in-space" part of Traveller too far.
Nothing in the CT character generation rules ever sets a requirement for meeting a certain Soc to become an officer, or to be promoted to certain officer ranks.

On the contrary, it is receiving a promotion that usually ends up increasing Soc because of and after the promotion!

 

[Condottiere]

Current incarnation of rules say, if I understand them correctly, you need social nine to buck for a commission, second and subsequent terms in a military career.

 

[welsh]

In a Naval career (I think, off the top of my head)....

The fact that social standing is not meaningfully coupled to anything in character generation (other than bucking for a commission) is IMO a flaw in the char gen system.

The problem with social standing is that with 20 billion or more people in a subsector and the communications problems inherent in Traveller, having SOC 8 on your homeworld can't possibly have much meaning elsewhere. Only at the most rarified heights is anyone going to be recognized. But I take it as the ease with which the character can move within middle and higher levels of Imperial society. I assume there are dozens of markers -- customs, language and dialect, etc. -- which serve to identify a character's SOC.

I think we struggle with social standing because our own societies pretend it is meaningless, and the rules never really lay out how it is meaningful in the Traveller universe. So it becomes that irrelevant sixth stat.

I think it can be meaningful in terms of police harassment, etc., but I balk at the idea that it is coupled to anything like voting -- because (a) each world has its own laws as to who can vote there, if anyone, and (b) voting is a meaningless concept within the Imperium itself.

 

[Condottiere]

That would be the Flandry/Falkenberg aspect, though I guess it's lucky you don't need a patron to get to rank five.

But I think it's across the board.

 

[Enoki]

I agree that social standing is underplayed in Traveller. It rarely comes up as an issue other than with nobility and even that is often underplayed.

I'd posit that you start out with some family standing in social status and then your career (terms of service) would determine what happens from there. Whatever career path you choose for the character their social standing will have to change over time based on their performance. If their SS is high and they remain in low ranked positions I'd surmise that they haven't lived up to expectations and their SS would fall as a result.
On the other hand, a character with a low SS that is very successful would see their SS rise as their rank / position rose.

Taking it to some degree of extremity:

Would it really be possible to have an admiral or general in the military with an SS of say 4?
For many categories like rogue, mercenary, scout, belter, or pirate for example, any character with a high SS would likely see their SS dramatically fall for their choice of career. At the same time, a low SS would be the norm and not hurt these careers at all.
Even careers like academic, merchant, or bureaucrat would have a degree of connection between rank / position and social status.

Given the presence of nobility one could assume that society does have a good degree of social stratification and who you are by blood and family is an important measure of who you are.
That would argue that SS is tied to position and nobility or being a commoner. That would mean that promotions and success would see your SS rise alongside those. For instance, your character starts with an SS of 6, an average person of no particular social significance. The character rises to the rank of colonel. I'd expect that SS to rise to at a minimum 7 and possibly as high as 9.

A big mismatch between SS and rank should result in modifiers to future promotion as a career progresses. A character of high SS stuck as enlisted or a junior officer would lose SS over time while one of low SS who is now an officer would gain.
A character from nobility (SS 11+ to start) would see their SS fall off if they failed to be an officer or in a leadership role in their field. That could be argued that they won't inherit the family title for whatever reason so their SS reflects that in that they are no longer "nobility." They do have a high SS because of their family connections however.

Being cashiered or passed over repeatedly for promotion should result in a lowering of SS by the same reasoning.

With those careers where social status really doesn't matter it can be ignored except where it's particularly high. Then one would expect it to fall over the character's career.

It should also have a considerable effect on patron encounters and how the character interacts in society in general but that isn't often reflected in the game either.

 

[Condottiere]

You get an automatic promotion to social standing ten, or plus one, if you achieve the rank of (Post) Captain, Marine Colonel or Army General, twelve once you become Admiral.

 

[flykiller]

Don't know that people would agree with your characterization

oh I do know. they won't agree. which is why I toss out the template like a chew toy and say have at it.

 

[flykiller]

Would it really be possible to have an admiral or general in the military with an SS of say 4?

more directly, would a soldier of ss4 be commissioned at all?

automatic promotion to social standing ten, or plus one, if you achieve the rank of

the necessary ss would seem to preceed the promotion.

that is taking the "age-of-sail-in-space" part of Traveller too far.

given jump it would seem that that would be one of the few "age-of-sail" practices that might be indeed applicable to traveller at all.

 

[Condottiere]

If players (or the dungeon master) maintain a characteristics passport where they keep track of them over time, just the fact that you now have a social standing of twelve once you're promoted to Admiral, doesn't mean that others will let you forget where you started from

 

[pendragonman]

Would it really be possible to have an admiral or general in the military with an SS of say 4?

Depends. Is it peace time or is it the darkest days of a war?

Ever hear of mustang commissions?

 

[Enoki]

If players (or the dungeon master) maintain a characteristics passport where they keep track of them over time, just the fact that you now have a social standing of twelve once you're promoted to Admiral, doesn't mean that others will let you forget where you started from

A valid point and one that could be used in play. Those of the "correct" lineage offering polite snubs and insults to such a character even as they are forced to invite him or her to the proper social activities and such.
Or, those in low places from their past showing up at inopportune moments to throw a monkey wrench into the best laid plans...

Depends. Is it peace time or is it the darkest days of a war?

Ever hear of mustang commissions?

Makes no difference. You might look at something like the Sharpe novels. He's this sort in a Traveller-like setting with social strata and nobility. He is often looked down on for having come from the enlisted ranks. Mustangs and Warrant officers are tolerated more than socially accepted.

The same goes for just where you went to school and such. Academy grads look down on their non-academy counterparts in the military. That's true today and it'd be true in our setting here.
Being a merchant and having attended the "right" university would confer higher social status than having attended the equivalent of community college. Doesn't matter you are dumb as box of rocks compared to the community college guy, you have connections to the right people he doesn't. Parkenson's Law is a good read on that score.

All that argues for a more coherent system that raises and lowers social status based on accomplishments, events, and promotions, or lack thereof, in a character's life.

 

[Drakon]

The same goes for just where you went to school and such. Academy grads look down on their non-academy counterparts in the military. That's true today and it'd be true in our setting here.

Which is amusing as the worst officers I've served with in the Navy were ring knockers (academy grads). The best ones were the Mustangs, with ROTC grads somewhere in the middle. The enlisted experience made for better officers.

But then I was enlisted.

 

[Enoki]

Which is amusing as the worst officers I've served with in the Navy were ring knockers (academy grads). The best ones were the Mustangs, with ROTC grads somewhere in the middle. The enlisted experience made for better officers.

But then I was enlisted.

I was a Chief. I wouldn't disagree (in fact I was a "separatee" from one junior academy grade for watch standing at one point because of the friction involved), but when it came to who's who with officers, where you went to school, your position on the promotion list, and who you knew trumped anything other than gross incompetence every time.

 

[aramis]

Having grown up in "officer country" around army and af... promotion list was trivial for the army officers. Ring knockers were disdained by the officers as well as the men for their haughtiness. (Mom was a WAC mustang, dad an ROTC MSC.) Competence was key. And off work, the knockers tended to be a separate clique from the others dad worked with.

The exchange officers (canadian and RAF) were far less class conscious than the US ring knockers.... to the point a Sandhurst grad asked if they thought they had earned peerages at West Point.

 

[flykiller]

Competence was key.

this completely misses the point. without loyalty, competence is not a benefit, it's a hazard, to a ruling class. and traveller has a ruling class.

Which is amusing as the worst officers I've served with in the Navy were ring knockers (academy grads). The best ones were the Mustangs, with ROTC grads somewhere in the middle. The enlisted experience made for better officers.

But then I was enlisted.

yeah, so was I, and my experience as well (though I found most of the officers to be at least competent). but this misses the point. the controlling view will not be from the bottom (us) up, it will be from the top (not us) down.

a more coherent system that raises and lowers social status based on accomplishments, events, and promotions, or lack thereof

disagree. of course the ruling class will desire competence and accomplishments, as much as they can get - AFTER loyalty issues are resolved, not before.

 

[kilemall]

All of this and historical personal and RL experience caused me to embrace the SOC stat even more, irrespective of the existence of an Imperium or nobility. Most every human society ends up as a hierarchy of one sort or another, even the ones that pretend they aren't.

I'm not a particular fan of your breakdown as it seems VERY specific ATU and not very universal, but SOC is worth defining how it is handled IYTU.

 

[flykiller]

I'm not a particular fan of your breakdown as it seems VERY specific ATU and not very universal

every game is an atu.

caused me to embrace the SOC stat even more, irrespective of the existence of an Imperium or nobility

that's the spirit!

 

[Condottiere]

I'm not a fan of having social standing as a primary characteristic, but there it is.

In theory, intelligence tends to be fixed, education usually only goes up, but social standing depends on accident of birth, and since this is a role playing game, on your character's capability to seize opportunities and advance, or the cruel caprices of fate (or incompetence) that cause it to fall.