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Solomani Marines (Cannon and Speculation)

Golan2072

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While I've started a discussion about the general nature of the Solomani armed forces in the past (found here), it was mostly focused on the Solomani Army. I've decided to open a more focused discussion about the Solomani Confederacy Marines (SCM), starting with an overview of the relevant cannon material.

The armed forces of the Solomani Confederation are divided into the Army and the Navy... A subforce within the Navy is the Confederation Marines, used primarily as a rapid reaction force and for boardings.
(AM6: Solomani p.13)
AND
Confederate Marines... are the Navy's troops.
(Solomani and Aslan, p.29)
So, the way I see it, the Solomani Marines are ship troops first and foremost, used to give ship captains a ground-combat capacity to use when nescery, be that for boarding, ship security, or handling ground combat when the naval force is the only, or main Solomani military presence around.

Having the Marines as part of the Navy would probably have other implications, especially when ship-troop units are considered, such as the Navy possibly handling part of the logistics, transport, fire-support and artilery (in this case, ortillery) needs of the attached Marine units; that would create relativey "top-light" formations, atleast in small (Company or less? Battalion or less?) ship-troop units, as the Marines will use their mother-ship's Medlab rather than have their own Clearing Station, eat at their mothership's galley, use their mothership's ortillery capacity rather than have attached light artillery, use their mothership's small craft for close-in fire support and so on. Larger units would probably have their own services and support structures to a degree, though parts of their support structure would still be handeled by the Navy.

AM6: Solomani p.16 lists the Marine rank structure, which is still different than the naval one, denoting a certain difference in tadition and organization. Both have the same rank structures as the Imperium depicted in the CT-LBB1 CharGen tables.

AM6: Solomani p.16 also lists the Marines having INT and DEX as the attributes giving them positive DMs to enlist, unlike the Imperium (CT-LBB1) which has INT and STR; that would be fitting for a primarily ship-troop force, trained for Zero-G ops, rather than for prolonged planetside combat.

AM6: Solomani p.17 lists the Solomani Marines' skill tables, and those have one glaring difference from the CT-LBB1 Imperial tables: Solomani Marines get NO Blade Combat skills, atleast under the basic chargen system - no Cutlasses for them! Instead they have Gun Combat and Brawling.

AM6: Solomani p.17 also states that Marines recive Rifle-1 as their automatic skill (instead of the Imperial Cutlass-1), and Marine Lieutenants recive Autopistol-1 (instead of the Imperial Revolver-1). Well, it seems that the Solomani Marines are less traditionalist than the Imperial ones, doesn't it?

Marines may only serve in Marine Infantry, Support, and Commandos.
(AM6: Solomani p.32)
Well, this support my theory - no Marine Armor or Artillery here (unlike Imperial marines, as depicted in CT-LBB4 p.5); these needs are provided by the Navy.

AM6: Solomani p.34 shows the Solomani Marines' Assignment Tables, and they are more liky than their Imperial counterparts to serve as Ship Troops; they also do not have a Garrison asignment, unlike the Imperial ones (so who gaurds Solomani naval installations? Naval security troops?)

AM6: Solomani p.35 gives the Solomani Marines' extended CharGen MOS tables. The first difference between then and the (CT-LBB4) Imperial ones is that the Imperial tables have a +1 DM according to the TL of the force (even for Marines!), while the Solomani tables have a +1 DM according to rank; this probably means that the Solomani Marines are probably more uniform technologically than their Imperial counterparts. Also, While Imperial Marines have Heavy Weapons, Forward Obs and Battledress in their MOS, their Solomani counterparts have Admin, Liaison and Vacc Suit instead; the lac of Battledress and Heavy Weapons probaby denotes them being light infantry rather than heavy infantry, and the Liaison skill seems to fit a Marine force working in close coordination with the Navy, but why do they have Admin in their MOS (unlike all other branches of the Solomani Armed Forces)?

Under Solomani and Aslan (p.31), Solomani Marines *CAN* get the Battledress and Heavy Weapons skills, though they are under the "Special Combat" cascade, along with many other Marine-relevant skills (such as Zero-G and Forward Obs). Is this a change in concept or an artifact of the cascade-heavy MT system?

AM6: Solomani p.35 also shows that the Solomani DO have a different rank structure from the Imperium for their ground forces, though the diferences are almost only in the enlisted ranks; the only difference in the Comissioned rank structure is that the Solomani have a Brigadier rather than a Brigadier General.

Solomani grav technology is often poor for its tech level, and in some locations may lag one or even two tech levels behind other technology. Because of this, Solomani grav modules use 30% more power and only produce 80% as much thrust as normal.
(CT-LBB8, p.14)
AND
Vehicles built by the Solomani are not quite up to the standards of the race. While they are well-built, they are lacking in performance, especially when it comes to gravitic technology. The Solomani developed gravitic technology later than most other cultures
(Solomani and Aslan, p.37)
This would also have implication for the Solomani Army and Marines as well, as less gravitic vehicles would be used by the Solomani than by Imperial forces, not to mention grav-belts. In many cases, a Naval small-craft would probably replace the traditional G-Carrier, though I coud easily envision the Solomani Marines using Aliens-style wheeled APCs.

On the other hand, Solomani and Aslan (p.38) lists a Grav-APC ("Combat Lander") which is said to be "popuar with the Confederation Marines".

Solomani seldom use warbots.
(CT-LBB8, p.14)
This is a point of similarity between them and the Imperium, unike the Zhodani.
 
Given the Terranians paranoia, I could see a clear separation between the TarJackets and the Marines just like in the real world RN of the 18th century. One job of the Royal Marines was the prevention of a mutiny after all. That means seperate messes, food, armory and a line of command that goes from the ships captain directly to the highest ranking marine.
 
Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
Given the Terranians paranoia, I could see a clear separation between the TarJackets and the Marines just like in the real world RN of the 18th century. One job of the Royal Marines was the prevention of a mutiny after all. That means seperate messes, food, armory and a line of command that goes from the ships captain directly to the highest ranking marine.
Yes, your point makes perfect sense. On the other hand the Solomani also have a tendency towards utalitarianism; providing a fully seperate set of logistics to an onoard Marine contingent would seem to them as somewhat excessive. So, they'll probaby use a compromise: possibly a seperate mess, a seperate armory and a seperate command structure (though the ship's Captain is still at the top of the chain of command), but with the ship's boats (manned by sailors?) would serve as transport for the Marines, the ship's guns (manned by sailors) would provide ortillery fire support for Marine ground ops, and the ship's medlab would also treat injured Marines.

About logistics beyond the armory itself, do you think that the Marines would have their own repair shops and intelligece personne onboard Naval vessels?

EDIT: If Marines also have a mutiny-supression duty, wouldn't they answer to the ship's Solsec monitor as well (do all ships have Monitors, or only the larger ones, anyway?)
 
Employee, perhaps the SolSec/CO chain of command explains their need for Admin and Liaison skills? They report to BOTH.
 
The the following is a tentative TO&E for Solomani Confederation Marines (SCM) in ship-troop assignment; they are characterized by (relatively) small forces dependent on a Navy ship for transportation, long-term logitics and ortillery support. Rapid-deployent assault forces (which I'll detail later on) operate in larger units, incorporate vehicles other than Naval small craft, and are ess dependent on Naval ships for logistics.

This TO&E assumes the following:
1) A uniform TL14 for all SCM forces; unlike the Massed Solomani Armies, the Marines are a unified force of reatively small size operated by the central Confederacy government, and thus equipped based on the central govenment's TL which is TL14.
2) No Battledresses are used for most Marine forces (as hinted by the AM6 CharGen tables), probably due to expense; therefore, PGMP-14s are used as squad-level support weapons rather than the Battledress-only FGMP-14s.

A Note to Striker Players: Assume that SCM is a Picked force; aside from Commandoes and SolSec troops, the Marines are the Confederacy's best, and are highly-motivated, well-trained and extremely loyal to the Solomani Cause.

Personal Equipment: Unless otherwise noted, Solomani Marines wear Combat Armor and are armed with Gauss Rifles. The Combat Armor's helmet incorporate switchable IR/LI vision enhancement; the Combat Armor also incorporates a long-range communicator (500gr at TL14). Each Marine carries 5 RAM grenades (launched from the Gauss Rifle's underbarrel laucher) and 5 spare magazines for the Gauss Rifle. A Combat Knife (treat as Blade) is also carried. Heavy Weapon Specialists carry a Gauss Pistol as their sidearm along with their Heavy Weapon.

Rifle Fireteam: 4 Riflemen, one of whom is the Team Leader (Corporal); the rest are Privates.

Plasma Fireteam: 4 Marines: 1 Team Leader (Corporal), 1 Plasma Gunner (Private First Class) and 2 Assistant Plasma Gunners (Privates).

Combat Engineering Team: 4 Marines: 1 Team Leader (Sergeant) and 3 Engineers (Corporals).

Squad: 12 Marines: 2 Rifle Fireteams and 1 Plasma Fireteam; the leader of one of the Rifle Fireteams serves as the Squad Leader.

Section: 25 Marines: 2 Squads plus a Section Leader (Sergeant). A Section is usually carried by a 50-ton Dropship (manned by two Naval personnel).

Platoon: 54 Marines: 2 Sections plus a 4-men Command Team composed of the Platoon Leader (Second Lieutenant), the Platoon Senior NCO (Staff Sergeant), an Intel/Comm Specialist (Sergeant) and a Medic (Sergeant).

Company: 278 men (277 Marines and one Sailor): 5 Platoons, plus a 4-men Combat Engineering Team and a 4-men Command Team composed of a Company CO (Captain), Company Senior NCO (Sergeant First Class), Intelligence Officer (First Lieutenant) and an attached Naval Liaison/Ortillery Coordinator (Ensign).
 
IMTU the Navy is very traditional, and they try to stay out of politics. SolSec monitors and Political Officers are very unpopular. The Marines are there partly to keep an eye on the Navy...
 
Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
IMTU the Navy is very traditional, and they try to stay out of politics. SolSec monitors and Political Officers are very unpopular. The Marines are there partly to keep an eye on the Navy...
I like the idea; onboard factionalism and shipboard politics have a very Solomani feel to them. Not to mention the various plot hooks this could lead to.
 
Guess it's time for the SolSec monitor on the latest Solomanie Navy missile cruiser to make sure he wears anti-slip shoes and stays clear of any spilled tea...
 
Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
[QB] -snip-
Rifle Fireteam: 4 Riflemen, one of whom is the Team Leader (Corporal); the rest are Privates.

Plasma Fireteam: 4 Marines: 1 Team Leader (Corporal), 1 Plasma Gunner (Private First Class) and 2 Assistant Plasma Gunners (Privates).

Combat Engineering Team: 4 Marines: 1 Team Leader (Sergeant) and 3 Engineers (Corporals).

Squad: 12 Marines: 2 Rifle Fireteams and 1 Plasma Fireteam; the leader of one of the Rifle Fireteams serves as the Squad Leader.

Section: 25 Marines: 2 Squads plus a Section Leader (Sergeant). A Section is usually carried by a 50-ton Dropship (manned by two Naval personnel).

Platoon: 54 Marines: 2 Sections plus a 4-men Command Team composed of the Platoon Leader (Second Lieutenant), the Platoon Senior NCO (Staff Sergeant), an Intel/Comm Specialist (Sergeant) and a Medic (Sergeant).
-snip-
If your assuming a conscript heavy force the rank structure you propose makes sense - however for an elite force with high retention most riflemen will be corporals with a fire team lead being a senior corporal or sergeant. This is based on real world comparison of WWII / Korean Conflict era US structure compared to late cold war and post cold war US structure. The more "professional" the force in terms of retention the higher the rank of the average "grunt."
 
most marine combat would take place aboard ship or station in a highly technical environment. each minimum combat element would have a navy support team of medic, damage controlman, and computer/electronics specialist. maybe even a mechanic/engineer.
 
Originally posted by Newbee:

If your assuming a conscript heavy force the rank structure you propose makes sense - however for an elite force with high retention most riflemen will be corporals with a fire team lead being a senior corporal or sergeant. This is based on real world comparison of WWII / Korean Conflict era US structure compared to late cold war and post cold war US structure. The more "professional" the force in terms of retention the higher the rank of the average "grunt."
That is assuming the ridiculously NCO heavy rank structure of the US forces.

If you were to look at an equally professional and HIGHLY experienced unit such as a Royal Marine Commando (only one year without active service, ie bullets flying, since WW2) you would find a similar structure.

1 section, 2 fireteams of four, one led by a cpl (section cmdr) and the other a lance corporal.

Platoon, 3 section plus a small HQ of 3 to 9 troops depending on role. HQ will have a 2nd Lt, a Sgt, and others.

I won't go any higher up the organisation tree as things have changed since my days at Poole and Condor but even when you look at UK special forces personnel are re-ranked, corporals serving as privates/troopers etc, captains ranked as lieutenants, usually with no loss of pay.
 
... captains ranked as lieutenants, usually with no loss of pay.
As far as I can tell that is one of the reasons for the numerous NCO positions. In some forces payscale is very tightly linked to rank.

Pull out that link, and then the ranks become descriptors again. The rank corporal becomes 2ic in a squad, rather then someone on 11,000 Cr to 11,500 Cr per annum.

Whenever I describe a force it tends to use "specialist" and "senior specialist" pseudo-ranks. These are privates who have some seniority, but unrelated to command.
 
Soli Marines are well kewl, much kewler than them wimpy Imperial Marines.

But none of 'em can kick the Ithklur Marines asses'.

But then I'm biased cos I'm a Hiver :D

<Scuttles away yellling "Please don't hit me!">
 
Originally posted by veltyen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />... captains ranked as lieutenants, usually with no loss of pay.
As far as I can tell that is one of the reasons for the numerous NCO positions. In some forces payscale is very tightly linked to rank.

Pull out that link, and then the ranks become descriptors again. The rank corporal becomes 2ic in a squad, rather then someone on 11,000 Cr to 11,500 Cr per annum.

Whenever I describe a force it tends to use "specialist" and "senior specialist" pseudo-ranks. These are privates who have some seniority, but unrelated to command.
</font>[/QUOTE]I'll probably go with that route - that is, pay not entirely based on rank (but on seniority, and, to a lesser degree, command), and long-serving troopers becoming "Specialists" and "Senior Specialists". Other than that, I think that Newbee 's comment has made me think a bit about this force; pure elite/special forces would probably be a bit high for regular Marines force (that's what Marine Commandos are for, though). I'll change the Striker designation to Long Service or even Conscript rather than picked, but add a bonus to Morale - that would be somewhat similar to the Israeli Paratroopers (especialy in the 1950's-1960's), which, while based on a conscript force, were quite high-quality and high-motivation.

By the way, using AM6 Re-Enlistment and Survival figures, what's the avarage number of terms per Solomani Marine?

Originally posted by flykiller:
most marine combat would take place aboard ship or station in a highly technical environment. each minimum combat element would have a navy support team of medic, damage controlman, and computer/electronics specialist. maybe even a mechanic/engineer.
For smaller ships (such as the 1,000-ton "cruiser") I'd assume that ship crewmembers with the appropriate skills will be attached to the Marines as needed; other than that, Marines would sometimes get the appropriate skills themselves (see the NCO skills tabe in the AM6 extended generation system). For Companies and Battalions, I'd agree with you on this, though (these were what the "Combat Engineering Team" was for - is a larger engineering unit needed?).

By the way, are there any things that I should bear in mind when designing the Battalion?
 
By the way, are there any things that I should bear in mind when designing the Battalion?
If you want to create something a bit unusual, you might consider updating the legion concept. In the 18th century, the Marechal de Saxe proposed a combined arms regiment containing line infantry, light infantry, cavalry and artillery in a single force. Several were formed, probably the most well-known being Lauzun's Legion which served in the American War of Independance.

In your setting this might include several companies of marine infantry, a marine assault company, naval close support craft, engineers, combat support or what have you in a regimental structure, possibly quartered among several vessels which operate as a squadron.
 
The King's German Legion in the British Army was also such a force. It had light and line infantry, dragoons and hussars, field and horse artillery, even its own engineers.

Though it never served as a single unit it was frequently used in all arms battlegroups, a squadron of dragoons attached to a half battalion of infantry with a troop of horse artillery etc.


IMTU I follow the British model, the marines providing the boots for an all arms brigade (being the smallest fighting unit of my CMF) with the army & navy providing elite supporting units, artillery, engineers, transport, logistics etc. The CMF does not use battledress IMTU, though Commandos do, the CMF placing a premium on ship boarding actions, zero-g and hostile environment combat and orbital assaults (not using capsules but assault boats and landers).
 
By the way, are there any things that I should bear in mind when designing the Battalion?
If you aren't using any structures larger then a battalion then all the things that occur "rarely" need to be squeezed in.

The ones you mentioned were limited Battledress and transport capabilities, so this might be the place for them if you intend to have them under regular command.

Something like
- HQ company
- Transport company
- Battledress company
- 2x Regular company
or equivalent
 
Originally posted by Border Reiver:
The King's German Legion in the British Army was also such a force. It had light and line infantry, dragoons and hussars, field and horse artillery, even its own engineers.

Though it never served as a single unit it was frequently used in all arms battlegroups, a squadron of dragoons attached to a half battalion of infantry with a troop of horse artillery etc.


IMTU I follow the British model, the marines providing the boots for an all arms brigade (being the smallest fighting unit of my CMF) with the army & navy providing elite supporting units, artillery
Whoever could you mean... ;)

Elite supporting logistics?
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Watch out the sneaky beaky blanket stackers are about.
 
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