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Some people dont get Traveller!!

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> On the subject of not liking the 'random' character generation process because it 'does not enable one to get the character one wants'
The obvious answer is don't do it randomly. You want a strong, tough, but a bit stupid PC? Fine, give him stats of A7B567. Run him through chargen, but choose the results instead of rolling.</font>[/QUOTE]I always do it half and half - choose some, roll some. same for stats.

Obviously, anyone who presented me with Grand Admiral FFFFFF SEHx10 had better have a damn good explanation...
or you could put him up against equal opponents, see if he measures up.
 
Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:

...almost everything in the CT character generation system is randomly determined - even what skills you have! If you have a certain character in mind before you sit down to play CT, chances are you won't be able to play it....

I'm one of those people who don't enjoy playing characters that they don't want to play...

But more relevant to the original poster - the fact that CT apparently doesn't have a non-random alternative to the chargen system...
Actually, your whole point sounds more like an issue between you and your referee. If you want to play a grizzled marine veteran, then pick the skills you want, set the age accordingly, and validate him with your referee. Who needs rules to do that?

It's harder to go the other way: to take a choose-your-stats rule system and try to improvise a random chargen from it. Traveller does it the right way: lay out the rules of the game, and let the users/referee decide what to ignore.
 
It's harder to go the other way: to take a choose-your-stats rule system and try to improvise a random chargen from it. Traveller does it the right way: lay out the rules of the game, and let the users/referee decide what to ignore.
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Absolutely.

Of all the different RPGs I saw over the years, [and at one time working in a hobby store as a teenager and seeing 100's in the big boom of the 1979/1981] I personally believe that Traveller is one of the best and most intelligently thought out games simply because of its versatility. I played CT for hours with friends when there was only the 3 books. We used what worked and what did not we quietly ignored [even computer sizes in those days were starting to not make sense]. As we took turns refeering we say different styles and flavors of play.

I will agree with Dr. G on one important point...many people seem to get tangled in canon issues and seem trapped with stuff they don't like. If so [and I'm still talking the settings here not the ugly realities of science ..like no being able to use survival skill to find oxygen in a vacuum] then by all means create your own universe...Traveller certainly provides the means to do so.

Further, Traveller can be used as a system to create RPG in other than sci fi. As experiments, my group ran a medieval campaign, a 17h century musketeer campaign...[shades of En Garde...I wonder my copy is today] a World War 1 espionage game [try a running sabre and mauser pistol fight on an out of control zeppelin about to crash]
World War II RPG ... etc etc etc. The rules are amazing in their flexibility.

We even played with a fantasy scenario where all "magic" was either technology disguised or psionics. [non-psions were fooled by illusions created by a small class of psion "wizards." People died from being hit by fireballs because mind assault and belief in the illusion.]

Not too bad for a rules set designed primarily for sci fi.
 
Originally posted by secretagent:
Ah, but is he a real evil doctor or merely an evil P.hD?? There's an important difference there. I'm sure he didn't go to 4 years of evil medical school to be called "mister."
Evil Ph.D (in er, Evil planetary science, no less), and it took me seven damn years to get it.


Anyway, sure, you can fix the CT rolls in individual games, but my point is that there's nothing in CT that even suggests or encourages you to do that. It just presents a random method and that's it. I know there's the 1001 characters book, but that's possibly the most useless thing I've ever seen - just zillions of stat lines with a few skills, and that's it?! People actually paid money for that??!!!
 
I know there's the 1001 characters book, but that's possibly the most useless thing I've ever seen - just zillions of stat lines with a few skills, and that's it?! People actually paid money for that??!!!
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I didn't when it first came out and now only own it by virtue of owning the FFE reprint. It struck me as sort of useless too.

Way back then my group didn't see it as a shortage of skills. But we prided ourselves on being resourceful.
 
Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
I know there's the 1001 characters book, but that's possibly the most useless thing I've ever seen - just zillions of stat lines with a few skills, and that's it?! People actually paid money for that??!!!
I use 1k1 Char & COTI all the time... need stats for a merchant crew, a platoon of marines, a team of scientists *and* a tribe of barbarians? damn - everybody go grab a beer. Okay all set.

Obviously this doesn't happen every session - but when I need to pull NPC's or Spear Carriers out of my proverbial rectal cavity it's real handy. But then I tend to ref by the seat of my pants a lot (okay too much). But give me a copy of Starport Liberty, the aforementioned cast of characters and a pint or two of inspiration and we're good to go.

Doc - I respect your opinion. You've got a really valid approach that works for you. But please remember -- just because it is not useful to you does not make it useless.

Keep in mind that these were put out before everyone had a computer capable of generating a bajillion characters in half a second on their desk - right?

Anyways - Diffren't Strokes... (whatchoo talkin' bout Willis?) and all that

pax,
 
I never saw character creation as a problem; I always used the old optional rule, so, not an issue here.

The thing that I always had a issue with players was their dislike of Jump Drive taking a week to get from one system to another. Surprisingly, they could handle having slug throwers, but the 1 week jump thing didn't appeal to them.

I decided that it wasn't so much that they hated Traveller than that I loved the concept of mixing history and science fiction. I suppose if I never got my double major in History and Political Science I probably would've never stuck with the game so long. And I'd probably be playing Star Wars right now. Oh well.

Anyone ever had the jump issue come up? And how did you deal with it? Just curious.
 
I agree that Jump Drive slows the game down, a tad but the secret that I found was never dwell upon it unless it is part of the narrative.

Over time, it becomes possible for Traveller players to grasp the immensity of the universe and that worlds unto themselves offer far richer sources of adventure than merely starhopping. Creating that mood on worlds was tough but now it is easier with the BITS products. I would rather focus on what makes a system unique, that way when players find themselves confined by the jump drive throw a curve ball at them with local flavour.
 
Originally posted by Havocatalyst:
I have a good gaming group that would really like to play T20, they are familiar with the D20 system but they cant understand why Traveller isn't like many of the other sci-fi RPG, Traveller doesnt have cybernetics or world shattering psionics or even one handed photon blasters that can level a building. I have one moron that says "I dont like any game were you can die in character creation." or "Traveller tech is based on the 1970s we have more advanced tech today than is in Traveller." I refuse to change Traveller to make it more like say Alternity or Star Wars. I feel that Traveller is fine, and is anti-munchkin, especially the older versions. Can anyone help me to explain the elegance of Traveller or should I just find someone else to RPG with.
To respond to the author's original post; apologies if this has already been mentioned, but you should keep in mind that Traveller, as originally conceived, was meant to be a GURPS like system. What I mean by that is that it was never originally meant to have a whole "world" or "universe" setting unto itself, but rather be able to provide a system that could present a variety of environments and situations to keep the players entertained.

It wasn't until the game became more defined with addons that its own existence became more defined. The technology levels and law levels, as originally presented, were meant to be descriptors of world's general attitude and knowledge base for the GM/referee to access when presenting the players with a certain environment.

Traveller can have all the things your players want, but you need to extract yourself from the mire of sticking with the "strict canon" (as some might call it), and present your players with things like mind-shattering psionics or mega-photon-blasters. The inherit abilities of such mental powers would be something well beyond what strictly described in the rulebook, but it's certainly not a thing that could not be handled by the rules nor even defined by them. Ditto with the weapon; it's tech base may be rather high (TL17?), and not fall within the scope of some weapon's chart, but that's where you the Referee need to come up with how such a device works.

Myself, I used to take my players to all kinds of crazy places during the 1980's when we played a great deal. Places that weren't defined by anything in the rules, but by using the rules that the players had for their own devices I was able to fashion how they were able to deal with really fantastic stuff: Everything from dragons to super landroving tank-fortresses, to deathstar like space stations. It's all doable. You just need to be able to let yourself go and think "OK, this player wants device-X or power-Y for his character .... now how would that work? How do I define such a thing for Traveller?"

And that's where you start coming up with range modifiers, weight statistics, power and/or power consumption, and other aspects.

Again, Traveller was meant to be able to accomodate all those things. I sometimes think people let their immaginations get stifled by too much conventionalization; i.e. "this is what's defined, so we're only going to use this..." You don't need to create ultra-powerful things for your players, but you owe it to them to be inventive to create things that they might like to experience.
 
Good Lord, I can't believe this post made it to 4 pages, I have never had this much conversation on a board. I must say that this is one of the best forums on the interweb. I also feel that this just proves the point, Traveller players are smarter than your average gamer.
 
Blue Ghost,

I agree with several of the things you say. I mentioned in an earlier post that my old group would use Traveller as a rules basis for all sorts of Earthbound roleplaying that did not involve science fiction and it worked very well.

What has always impressed me was the sheer flexibility. With a little imagination and some effort almost anything could be translated into a playable game.
 
Originally posted by Havocatalyst:
Good Lord, I can't believe this post made it to 4 pages, I have never had this much conversation on a board. I must say that this is one of the best forums on the interweb. I also feel that this just proves the point, Traveller players are smarter than your average gamer.
More to the point, Traveller fans tend to be somewhat opinionated (and vocal about it) than 'the average gamer'. You sometimes just have to mention a contentious topic here and it'll erupt into anything from a heated discussion to a full on flame war
 
secretagent wrote:

"Further, Traveller can be used as a system to create RPG in other than sci fi. As experiments, my group ran a medieval campaign, a 17h century musketeer campaign...[shades of En Garde...I wonder my copy is today] a World War 1 espionage game [try a running sabre and mauser pistol fight on an out of control zeppelin about to crash] World War II RPG ... etc etc etc. The rules are amazing in their flexibility."


Mr. Agent,

'Zactly. Ye ghods, you can use CT for just about anything. Add MT's task system and it just gets better. CT is so simple you can readily add all the bells, whistles, and chrome you need to create any other setting.

I've used it to run fantasy campaigns; using psionics as magic and adding a couple fo things from MTG's old 'Wizard' micro. I've used it to run musketeers; adding combat from En Garde for dueling and using CT for everything else. I even used it for a TwenCen, Treasure of the Sierra Madre style, uranium hunting campaign set during the Chaco War; Striker came in handy there. Roping in another thread, I know a group who used CT to play S:1889.

In an RPG, it's the role-ing that should count and not the rolling. If your group has a system that they're comfortable with, tweak a few bits and stick with it. Works for GURPS and d20, right?

CT is simple, thus easy to learn. CT is simple, thus easy to tweak. CT is simple, but not simplistic.


Sincerely,
Larsen
 
Well, I have to say that there are some valid objections to many things in Traveller.

Tech (especially computers) seeming to be based on what was forcasted in the mid-70's (even in T20 to some extent) is a big one. I didn't like it even back in the early 80's. I still balk at some of the tech restrictions and the often overly "hardness" of the science. This is supposed to be some 2000 years in the future; does our present technology resemble much from 2000 years ago?

I never liked the extreme randomness of character generation in CT either. I had my own house rule that you rolled the dice then chose from the 3 tables (4 with the higher EDU) and put it as "The service needs people with better skills in these 3-4 areas. Pick one." You could actually "create" a character that way instead of "generating" one.

So why do I like Traveller? Because it's rules were designed to be somewhat flexable and as a result are the easiest to "fix" to what I want. Especially with the T20 edition. If I want to add a blaster pistol or a phaser, it isn't a problem. If I want to add shields to the ship, it works too. I personally don't stick to the "hard science" so much because I don't find that too realistic. Our understanding of the universe (and thus our technology) is so much different from even 100 years ago, I find it hard to believe that in 2000 years it doesn't improve exponentially and thus result in things we can't explain in today's tech. (I do prefer consistancy, so while I may not be able to explain why the in-ear translator works, it will always function in a particular manner).
 
Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
More to the point, Traveller fans tend to be somewhat opinionated (and vocal about it) than 'the average gamer'. You sometimes just have to mention a contentious topic here and it'll erupt into anything from a heated discussion to a full on flame war
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And sometimes if you don't read real carefully, you miss a word here or there that really changes the meaning. <blushing mea culpa>

Still, while the ideal is not to get spun up to 'inferno' in these discussions, at least most of us have the sense to know when we've putzed it and make an apology and to concede a good point by an erstwhile adversary.

Of course, if things were that bland, no one would read this board....
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