Spinal Mounts for destroyers and light cruisers

[mike wightman]

I have had a sudden brain-wave with regards to the light (1-2kt) meson gun spinal mounts in High Guard and T20.
You can fit them in a destroyer or light cruiser, but then the problem is the size of the power plant and the fuel requirement, especially below TL15.
Here is a solution.

Powered Down Spinal Mounts: at TL13 it is possible to build a 1kt meson gun, cost 800MCr, 700EP, rated factor E. Why not build it with a power input of only 500EP instead, giving it a factor of A? Or 600 EP for a factor of C?

At higher TLs then a greater range of power inputs become available for the same tonnage, but it is the EP input that decides the weapon factor.

A further variant would be to allow the EP input to be variable, thus a ship's Captain may be faced with the choice of losing agility or secondary weapons, or both, to fire at the higher factor spinal rating.

 

[The Oz]

In a game with only a few ships, or as choice for player characters commanding such a ship, The variable-power spinal mount is an excellent idea.

In a full-scale HG fleet battle, with dozens of ships carrying spinal mounts, having variable-power spinal mounts might be too much detail. Having the permanently underpowered spinal mount for smaller ships would still work since it can only shoot at the factor it's powered to.

Of course, those lower-powered meson guns aren't much use against decent meson screens.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by The Oz:
In a game with only a few ships, or as choice for player characters commanding such a ship, The variable-power spinal mount is an excellent idea.

Thank you
I was mainly looking at it from the rpg side of things.

In a full-scale HG fleet battle, with dozens of ships carrying spinal mounts, having variable-power spinal mounts might be too much detail. Having the permanently underpowered spinal mount for smaller ships would still work since it can only shoot at the factor it's powered to.

Agreed for the fleet on fleet engagements, but it should be managable for a couple of squadrons per side. It would only take a minor change to the USP, or a couple of side notes on a ship data card.

Of course, those lower-powered meson guns aren't much use against decent meson screens.

Agreed again , but against TL11-13 adversaries they would make cruisers and above think twice about the destroyers and light cruisers who could get in that lucky shot

It would also make destroyers and light cruisers much more feared as commerce raiders

 

[Ben W Bell]

Also if you fit one of those in a destroyer, along with the power plants needed to run the thing, will you really have room for a jump drive fuel? It would just be a flying gun with nothing else in it.

 

[mike wightman]

I'm looking at ships in the 5-20kt range.
Using the above rule then 10kt spinal mount armed destroyer/light cruisers become possible.

A 5000t destroyer would have to be TL15 or 16 to be armed with a spinal mount, and even then could only make jump2, maneuver/agility4. But for a planetary navy or small pocket empire that could be enough

 

[far-trader]

Or you could just use them as SSDB's (Super System Defense Boats) and/or employ jump shuttles and/or a Battle Rider mode of deployment.

 

[mike wightman]

Yep, that would work. But I do like to put jump 1 into battle riders to give them an escape option

 

[The Oz]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Yep, that would work. But I do like to put jump 1 into battle riders to give them an escape option

That's a trick I stumbled onto myself. It's no help in a TCS tournament, but very useful in a campaign game.

 

[mike wightman]

Yeh, it's great for getting rid of those low agility tenders that hamstring your fleet. Have some tankers standing by in an adjacent hex and if the battle turns against you you still have a chance to salvage some units from the debacle

But I digress. One of my aims for this rules variant is to make ships of lower tonnage and lower TL more of a threat to the multi-kiloton TL15 battlewagons.

 

[Theophilus]

All of which is do-able with TNE's FF&S.

Plus, the same thing can give small SDB's anti BB capability.

 

[Antony]

FF&S is good for spinal weapons. I even fitted a 20Mj Meson gun to a 15dt Grav Sled. Doesn't do a great deal of damage but since it ignores armour and has a 3000km short range should give those Trepida grav tanks a shock.

 

[mike wightman]

Problem with FF&S is the ships it produces are incompatible with CT/HG/MT/T20 due to all of the design differences.
Even GT ships are closer to CT/HG/T20 than TNE and T4 ships, with the added bonus that you can build their spinal mounts in a similar way to FF&S using GURPS Vehicles
Don't get me wrong, I like FF&S a lot, I would have liked to have seen some elements of it in T20's ship design system (i.e. more spinal weapon choice), since it is impossible to build several TNE canon ship designs without bending the rules a lot.

 

[Hemdian]

Another trick is to 'bank' half the energy requirment in the jump capacitors. If you can do this and only have your meson gun fire every alternate turn ... then you have effectively halved the "per turn" energy requirement. I used this trick to put a 100 dton meson gun in a 1000 dton ship that had jump-4 and 6G. Check out the Pather class Experimental Frigate.

Regards PLST

 

[mike wightman]

I've just had another thought about smaller spinal mounts at higher TLs (due to RainOfSteel resurrecting an older thread about spinal mounts ).

If spinal mount size is determined by energy input and TL then multiply the smallest tonnage spinal mount at a TL by the ratio of lower EP value : standard EP value.

An example may help.
At TL12 the smallest spinal meson is the 2000t, 600EP, C gun. How big would an A rated 500EP input gun be?
2000x(500/600)=1666.6t, which I would round up to the nearest 50t, so make it 1700t

How about a TL 15 A rated spinal meson?
1000x(500/900)=555.6, rounded up as before to 600t

You could work out the cost the same way.

 

[bobpartdeux]

a level 12 is only 700 EPs

that means that 1700 tons of your space are used up for meson gun + powerplant

I think that leaves enough to build a ship arround

I will tryit in my thread on carriers and battle riders

Jon Miller

 

[The Oz]

Sigg:

It would work, but I still can't see why I'd bother. The TL-15 "A" meson gun would have the largest reduction, and it's still over half the size of a "J", for considerably less effective firepower than the factor-J. And that doesn't even count the powerplant/fuel/crew spaces needed.

I think I'd rather have two factor-9 meson gun bays: they're smaller, use less EPs, cost less, and need less crew. And I could engage two separate targets with them.

 

[mike wightman]

Ah, but the A meson would get two chances to cause a radiation crew-1 hit, or an internal explosion crew-1 or fuel tanks shattered result, all of which knock out the enemies ability to retaliate. You also get the chance of causing critical hits on the damage tables.
Bay weapons are subject to the +6 mod that makes for a battle of attrition.
Besides, I'd probably opt for a C or E gun over an A gun

 

[bobpartdeux]

is it really so easy to hit?

if it is, than spinal mounts aren't that useful (their main advantage is in attcking a heavily armored, hard to hit, target)

Jon Miller

 

[mike wightman]

Here's the tonnages I would have for smaller meson guns:
At TL 15
#A - 500EP - 600t
#C - 600EP - 700t
#E - 700EP - 800t
#G - 800EP - 900t
#J - 900EP - 1000t

At TL 14
#A - 500EP - 650t
#C - 600EP - 750t
#E - 700EP - 900t
#G - 800EP - 1000t

At TL 13
#A - 500EP - 750t
#C - 600EP - 900t
#E - 700EP - 1000t

At TL 12
#A - 500EP - 1700t
#C - 600EP - 2000t

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by bobpartdeux:
is it really so easy to hit?

if it is, than spinal mounts aren't that useful (their main advantage is in attcking a heavily armored, hard to hit, target)

Jon Miller

It depends on the target's size, computer and agility rating, and your weapon factor of course

Against higher TL opponents you don't stand much of a chance because of their higher relative computer rating, and often higher agility.

So usually it is quite hard to hit, then there's the problem of penetrating defences

The main advantage of spinal mounts in the High Guard combat system is that they inflict more hits and can cause critical hits and internal damage, something non-spinal weapons can only do against small opponents.