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Starport drawings wanted!!!!!

Indeed, and good to see you pop in Liam


Say, how goes the Starports project btw? Still in developmental limbo due to other commitments? This thread begs that it goes ahead sometime eh?
 
Hmmm. Well, if I had to use an airport for servicing starships, I'd have to agree with Liam (go Razorbacks!), but that's sort of apples and oranges, what?

But your point is that even lowly E starports can be significant economic hubs, right? A low TL world could still try to attract starships by paving miles and miles of landing fields and setting up outlet malls and factory distribution centers there.
 
By definition, E-ports don't have any of those things. If there was enough traffic to justify building those things then there would be a better 'port (D or C).
 
starports are classified according to how they relate to starships. a type E "has no fuel, [repair] facilities, or bases present". that leaves a lot of room for it to have other things. a thriving tech 2 society might build a large city around their "starport", and you'd have to call it an E.
 
This whole starport issue bugs me. To my mind they (starports) have never been fully (or sufficiently) detailed enough in any version of the rules I've read. Most just go with...
A class : Starship building, and refined fuel, Overhauls and Repairs major and minor
B class : Non starship building and refined fuel, Overhauls and Repairs major and minor.
C class : Unrefined fuel, Repairs Major and minor.
D class : Unrefined Fuel Repairs Minor
E class : Frontier???
X class : nothing.

So armed only with this and (hopefully) some common sense I'd have thought significant sized airports with approach radar & tower run communications, aircraft repair and or maintenance hangars, passenger and cargo transfer loading storage areas etc etc etc would easily classify as D class starports. This would be especially so on worlds with a TL equall to or higher than that used to construct the starships landing there. I'm sure the maintenance facilities at a TL 13 worlds equivelent to Heathrow or LAX could handle repairs to a TL 12 or lower jump capable ship. Possible exceptions would be work on the actual jump drive itself cause aircraft don't have them thus they're less familiar to the techs involved.
Incidentally in my TNE campaigns I got rapidly tired with all those worlds with X class starports due to the collapse but who retain TL 5 and higher and therefore had TED's with airforces, not to mention civilian air travel requirement. I also got tired with the effects an X class has on the cargo price lists and the economic tables in general. So, I looked at the requirements for C class ports. Hmmn refined fuel and major and minor repairs. Doesn't sound like much. So what do the rules say you need for repairs? Replacement parts or fabricated parts and/ or an electronics shop and/or a machineshop. My solution then was to build what I call "Starports in a can" I'm sure we're all familiar with the 50 Tonne modular cutter so basically I just stuck everything I thought the rules dictated a C class port needed into a modular cutters module. Granted it's small, yes you have to co locate them with a water source to use the fuel purification plant, and generally you want other modular cutter modules also with them for a decent port. Fuel storage, cargo storage, habitation etc etc just to name a few. But any pocket empire IMHO will be building them and possibly even giving them away to their neighbouring systems to ecourage trade and contact. That's my take on starports and airports in a TNE setting YMMV.
 
Originally posted by robject:
Hmmm. Well, if I had to use an airport for servicing starships, I'd have to agree with Liam (go Razorbacks!), but that's sort of apples and oranges, what?

But your point is that even lowly E starports can be significant economic hubs, right? A low TL world could still try to attract starships by paving miles and miles of landing fields and setting up outlet malls and factory distribution centers there.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Exactly. an example, HARPER /0135/Ownsbee/Gateway Sector:
E647ABC-9 Hi In 215 Xx F9 V G9 D
Probably has a HUGE E-class port (smaller than earth, 20 Billion folks). Okay, a Non charismatic dictator runs the world/system, so there isn't LOTS to see not scrutinized by his Govt (Law C), but you get the idea. Pre-Grav/early stellar society (TL-9)..lots of aircraftin use, modified for the thin tainted atmosphere.
 
Have to concur with Flykiller, Andrew B-- the starport classifications relate to starships, just as they do (A versus B-class) for starship/spacecraft construction, and fueling capabilities.
Badbru's extrapolation based on TL (and dose of common sense) Is one I have also used. If the TED/ or other TNE era world/nation leadership has an airforce (even a remnant tech or mid tech (hard times era leftovers) they have a rough E-class starport equivalent.
And a far as an RCES/ RC or other Pocket empire campaign expanding outwards is concerned, thats a major factor in a world survey.
YMMV, IMHO
 
"a thriving tech 2 society might build a large city around their "starport", and you'd have to call it an E."

More likely, they'd place their E-port next to an existing city.

There's no reason to build shopping malls, hotels, and warehouses near an E-port, because there's very little traffic. Probably one ship per day at most. How do we know this? BECAUSE IT'S ONLY AN E-PORT! There's no fuel, no landing bays, no ATC, just a landing beacon and a big X painted on a flat bit of ground. Half the time there's probably not even someone there to meet you when you land.

If there was more traffic than this - enough for it to be worth building shops etc nearby - then an E-port wouldn't be able to cope, you'd need to upgrade to at least a D.
 
There's no reason to build shopping malls, hotels, and warehouses near an E-port, because there's very little traffic. Probably one ship per day at most. How do we know this? BECAUSE IT'S ONLY AN E-PORT!
ports are rated by construction, repair, and fuel capabilities and by the presence/absence of bases. traffic volume is not a factor.

E ports that draw high traffic may attempt to upgrade and draw more traffic, or they may decide that they're happy with the existing situation and do nothing. its reasonable to expect that a high-traffic port would accrete some ad-hoc emergency support services and thus slightly raise the unofficial rating of the port, but even that is not inevitable.
 
Well, also, an industrial world with an E-port might use said port for air and ground transport too. The rail lines and air freight lines have hubs, why not fit in the extra room for that one ship a day with its tons of valuable cargo, have it on its way to its destinations pronto?

Ah, and perhaps that ship-a-day is carrying 100t of raw goods. The factory should probably be very close by, and next to the rail which moves raw and finished goods from the port to the market(s).

And although an E-class port isn't fancy, it might get significant traffic if there were other factors to outweigh its primitiveness.

IMTU they're not easy to find, though. I can't find any in the Spinward Marches.

Theoretically, a world could have an E port, a high population, a good TL, industry, and lie on the X-Boat route, for a traffic index of 3. If it were near a world with an A port, high TL, rich, agricultural, and also on the X-boat route, its traffic index would be 5, and the traffic through the E-port would be around 1000 people and 10,000 tons of freight per day. Since that's a downport, all of the traffic will be in small ships -- 600t, 400t, and 200t -- which probably means around 100 ships per day.
 
"ports are rated by construction, repair, and fuel capabilities and by the presence/absence of bases. traffic volume is not a factor."

But traffic volume is implied by the quality of the port. How long would LAX survive in its current state if traffic dropped to a few planes a day? If suddenly a few hundred planes a day wanted to land at a dirt strip in the middle of nowhere, how long until it looked like a real airport?

If the world was seeing more than a handful of ships a week, they'd build a better port (in fact it's probably a legal requirement).
 
"Well, also, an industrial world with an E-port might use said port for air and ground transport too. The rail lines and air freight lines have hubs, why not fit in the extra room for that one ship a day with its tons of valuable cargo, have it on its way to its destinations pronto?"

Hmm. Good point.
 
But traffic volume is implied by the quality of the port.
no, it is suggested. and it's a reasonable suggestion, but it doesn't have to be that way.
If the world was seeing more than a handful of ships a week, they'd build a better port.
and if they can't, or don't wish to? there are many reasons why they may not wish to, from poverty to religion to elitism to rejection of imperial entanglements to just plain laziness.

think of starships landing near ancient rome or beijing. lots of trade potential, but 'bout all the locals could do to support the ships is have their priests bless them.
 
Well, I'm fairly sure they could arrange a supply of unrefined fuel (ie water), but you're forgetting an important fact: the planet doesn't own and run the starport, the Imperium does. Anything necessary that the planet can't provide is brought in from elsewhere. How else can you explain worlds like Kinorb/Regina - A starport, capable of building starships, but only TL8?
 
IMTU, some starports are privately/corporately owned, or owned by the world. For example, the starport on Fulacin is owned by a holding company for the Zhodani.
 
It is good that the starport system is vague, this allows the GM to change it to match their campaign needs.

The only area I disagree with the standard list is the fact that a C starport should have the option of having refined fuel (GM choice).

Even if the world doesn't have high enough tech to build ships, repair should be possible as well as refining of fuel. We can today build parts to spec in machine shops. High tech electronics could be imported and stored.

If the worlds tech supports the listed port, then use standard prices and availability. If the native planet tech doesn't then minus the tech difference to check for availability and cost multiplier. For example that part for you high tech ship can be built or even found in a warehouse, but its rare and gonna cost you :)

- Remember the goal of role playing is to have fun.
 
I always got tired of fighting canonistas over the 'official' listing of a Starport's features based on Code...
Starports are the Traveller Universe's equivalent of reallife's Airports...There are big ones and little ones, size does NOT equate to construction or repair facilities...There are some that serve only cargo, some cargo and passengers, and some only pasengers...There are some that offer jet fuel, and some only offer gas for piston planes...
etc..
The whole reason that there is a Starports thread (that is now closed), is that alot of us are tired of justifying a stupid UWP code for a starport that has no physical relationship to the rest of the world's UWP... Until there is a new sourcebook, us poor Refs will continue to adjust the dice as needed...

just a thought...

-MADDog


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" Therefore the best fortress is to be found in the love of the people, for although you have fortresses, they will not serve you if you are hated by the people. "
-Machiavelli
 
Well, I'm fairly sure they could arrange a supply of unrefined fuel (ie water), but you're forgetting an important fact: the planet doesn't own and run the starport, the Imperium does. Anything necessary that the planet can't provide is brought in from elsewhere. How else can you explain worlds like Kinorb/Regina - A starport, capable of building starships, but only TL8?
I'd call it a typo. failing that I'd say the Duke's mother lives there or something. ever heard of the winchester house in california?

imtu the imperium doesn't own the starports, the local nobility do.
 
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