Starport Law Level

[Grognard]

I recall recently reading a note about universal Starport Law level and Tech level by Starport quality. I seem to recall that the point was that starports adhere to Imperial Law (level ?) and that the TL of facilities at a starport are determined by the starport code. A was TL 12 I believe.....

Can anyone point me to where I may have skimmed that?


THX

 

[far-trader]

I know what you're referring to but I'm not recalling where it is either. I'm not even certain it's in CT. Which probably isn't much help

My take for what it's worth...

First: In My Traveller Universe the Starport is extraterritorial to the generated local law level. This is not to say the Starport is lawless and everyone walks around with WMD's, rather that simple possession is not an enforced issue. Walk around with a laser or assault weapon at the ready on your shoulder though and you will draw attention from the local IMPs (Imperial Marine Police), and they are in BD (you aren't) with better weapons. So my "advisory" Starport LL is 5. No one will bat an eye at that.

Try to cross the extrality line though and you are subject to the local law level in both directions. So no contraband is permitted in either direction and people are screened for outstanding warrants.

That said I seem to recall what you're looking for stated the Starport LL is 3 and ignores ship's weapons, though as I said I don't recall the source. It seems to me that LL 2 would be more in keeping with the presumed responsible PC armament meme; ruling out only poisons, explosives, and undetectable weapons.

Per CT, Starport LL is implied to be equal to local LL, imo.

Second: I tend to make my world TL minimum based on the Starport quality. It's the locals that build and maintain the Starport (though it is run by Imperial agents) as one part of the requirements for full membership in the Imperium (as the step up from a Client State). In MTU Class A requires minimum TL9, Class B requires minimum TL7, Class C requires minimum TL5. Class D and lower require no minimum TL (though I might have rated Class D at TL3 minimum at one time).

Per CT Starport TL is implied to be equal to local TL, even where such a TL won't support the stated Starport services, which is a bit of a conundrum. Presumably the listed Starport services trump local TL so even at that TL5* world with a Class A Starport you can still build a Starship. Maybe with many imported components.

* the lowest possible for a Class A Starport world, on average you'll meet or exceed the TL9 minimum most of the time, so again it's a bit of a moot issue, most of the time

 

[rancke]

AFAIK the only place where it has been addressed is in GT:Starport. I could be wrong, though.


Hans

 

[HG_B]

AFAIK the only place where it has been addressed is in GT:Starport. I could be wrong, though.


Hans

Sounds right to me. I was just rereading that book. It's the only major treatment of the subject I can recall.

 

[Grognard]

Hmmm..
I could swear it was in the JTAS or DGP MT Journal
I looked over Starports!! and it wasnt their either.

I have the entire GT line, but prefer to stick to CT and DGP material.
(No offense to the GT authors...)

....actually maybe it was in the Travellers Digest...Ill look there next.

 

[Hemdian]

Can anyone point me to where I may have skimmed that?

Well there’s certainly a reference in MT to TL minimums for starports (World Builder’s Handbook p92):

• Class A starport = TL 10
• Class B starport = TL 9
• Class C starport = TL 8
• Class D starport = TL 7
• Class E starport = TL 6
• Class X starport = TL 0

(So if a class A starport is on a world with a TL less than 10 the starport’s TL is 10.)

But I don’t remember seeing anything regarding starport law levels.

 

[rancke]

Well there’s certainly a reference in MT to TL minimums for starports (World Builder’s Handbook p92):

• Class A starport = TL 10
• Class B starport = TL 9
• Class C starport = TL 8
• Class D starport = TL 7
• Class E starport = TL 6
• Class X starport = TL 0

(So if a class A starport is on a world with a TL less than 10 the starport’s TL is 10.)

Several fallacies there, IMO. First of all, it would be at least 10. What TL it actually has would depend on the society that paid for its existence. Secondly, I don't see why a starport with a TL of 9 can't have a shipyard. Thirdly, if any ship (which would include TL15 ships) can be repaired or have an annual maintenance at a Class A or B starport, doesn't that imply that the minimum TL is higher than 10? Maybe not a full TL 15, but what TL would you say a starport would need to be able to repair and maintain TL 15 ships? 9 seems a bit low for that. Or 8, for that matter (ships can be repaired at Class C starports).

EDIT: And, BTW, the minimum TL of a Class E starport is 0, because all you need for one is a bare spot of bedrock with a radio beacon, and a beacon is easy to import. That's how I explain Class E starports on a number of worlds: The Scouts set one up.


Hans

 

[far-trader]

...Thirdly, if any ship (which would include TL15 ships) can be repaired or have an annual maintenance at a Class A or B starport, doesn't that imply that the minimum TL is higher than 10?

It would. But then I've never done it that way myself. Just as one* can build a TL15 Starship only at a TL15 Class A Starport so too can one only repair or maintain a TL15 Starship at a TL15 Class A Starport. Not a TL14 Class A Starport, and not a TL15 Class B Starport. But that's MTU

* EDIT: Caveat, of course the local government can build at local TL regardless of Starport Class, and presumably also repair and maintain. And one would suspect that military bases are able to build, repair, and maintain at the full TL available to the polity, in the case of the Imperium of the CT era for example, TL15, and irregardless of the local Starport class. Or not.

 

[rancke]

It would. But then I've never done it that way myself. Just as one* can build a TL15 Starship only at a TL15 Class A Starport so too can one only repair or maintain a TL15 Starship at a TL15 Class A Starport. Not a TL14 Class A Starport, and not a TL15 Class B Starport. But that's MTU

It is. In the OTU, annual maintenance is available at all Class A and B starports with nothing said about any restrictions due to tech level.

* EDIT: Caveat, of course the local government can build at local TL regardless of Starport Class, and presumably also repair and maintain. And one would suspect that military bases are able to build, repair, and maintain at the full TL available to the polity, in the case of the Imperium of the CT era for example, TL15, and irregardless of the local Starport class. Or not.

TCS to the contrary notwithstanding, I maintain that starport class is a civilian rating. If a civilian can't go there and order a starship built, it's not a class A. That doesn't mean there isn't a shipyard there, just that it isn't building starships for just anybody.

IMTU the difference between class A and class B isn't shipyard vs. boatyard. It's fully functional yard vs. enough facilities to do annual maintaince and major repairs. (And the difference between B and C is annual maintenance/major repairs vs. medium repairs). I really don't see the difference between being able to build ships and boats and being able to build boats only as being worth one whole category. A yard is capable of building ships if TL is 9+, boats only if it's 7-8. The difference between having a yard at all and not having one... that's worth a category. But that IMTU.


Hans

 

[beowulf2044]

The bit about zero law level for starports is in JTAS #7.

 

[HG_B]

IMTU the difference between class A and class B isn't shipyard vs. boatyard.

Hans

The only possible justification I can see is that hulls of star ships are different than non-jump ships. Other than that, no real difference.

 

[rancke]

IMTU the difference between class A and class B isn't shipyard vs. boatyard.

The only possible justification I can see is that hulls of star ships are different than non-jump ships. Other than that, no real difference.

All the ship design systems agree that the hulls are essentially the same regardless of jump rating (including jump-0), but I wouldn't say that there's no difference between a yard that can build ships and boats and one that can only build boats. I just don't think it's something a starport rating service would consider worth an entire separate classification (out of six), since it's approximately the same difference as between being able to build jump-1 ships only and being able to build jump-1 and jump-2 ships.

You see if there's a yard. If there is, you see what the TL is. Than you know what kind of vessels it can build.

That's my milage, anyway.



Hans

 

[HG_B]

All the ship design systems agree that the hulls are essentially the same regardless of jump rating (including jump-0),
Hans

Non-jump ship hulls don't have lanthanum hull grids built in. Jump capable ships do.

 

[far-trader]

Non-jump ship hulls don't have lanthanum hull grids built in. Jump capable ships do.

Which naturally leads to the whole why do they cost exactly the same and why is there no damage effect for hull hits on this mythical lanthanum grid.

I can deal with the second issue easily enough by handwaving that hull hits are misses to the grid while some jump drive hits are to the grid, but I fail to see a fully reasonable work-around to the first issue. My semi-unreasonable workaround is even small craft have jump grids because they are carried externally even if they aren't always depicted that way.

 

[DaveChase]

Non-jump ship hulls don't have lanthanum hull grids built in. Jump capable ships do.

Well, that would be considered true, unless they are using the Jump Bubble method of Jumping and not the Jump Grid method of Jumping.

(darn it, where is the flaming smillee head when you need one. )



Dave Chase

 

[Grognard]

Thanks all!

It was the World Builders Handbok reference that I was thinking of. (Should have known since Ive been using that book a lot lately)
Ill checkout JTAS #7 also..thats likely the other reference I recall.

D

 

[HG_B]

Which naturally leads to the whole why do they cost exactly the same and why is there no damage effect for hull hits on this mythical lanthanum grid.

Looks like you found an area for possible errata...

 

[Ishmael]

perhaps the cost of the grid is abstracted to be included within the cost of jump drives themselves.

perhaps, because the grid is 'embedded' within the hull, it doesn't get damaged unless the hull is actually penetrated ( interior hits )

 

[HG_B]

perhaps the cost of the grid is abstracted to be included within the cost of jump drives themselves.

perhaps, because the grid is 'embedded' within the hull, it doesn't get damaged unless the hull is actually penetrated ( interior hits )

I think you're right. In MGT, if you design a ship over 100 tons or over, you have to immediately designate whether it is jump capable and you can't change it later.

 

[far-trader]

The topic is adrift, but so far I like it, maybe I'll split it off later, for now carry on...

I think you're right. In MGT, if you design a ship over 100 tons or over, you have to immediately designate whether it is jump capable and you can't change it later.

Out of curiosity how does MGT handle drop tanks? Because in CT they are cheaper than hulls by a factor of about 100 and can still be carried through jumpspace with no issues at all. Which obviously blows the whole jump grid idea.

Also, does it say anything about externally carried small craft having to declare special hull status for jump?

While the jump bubble idea does address the issues somewhat it raises it's own problems. In short the canon data on the whole thing is too little and/or self-contradictory and begs a more thorough treatment and retcon. Either canon or house-ruled. IMO of course. YMMV.