Supporting a Faction
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I'm reading a book on Chinese history at the moment, so my brain is brimming with the Warring States, the Three Kingdoms, the Northern and Southern Dynasties, and lots of other interesting stuff. Obviously, it's time to think about the Rebellion.
My general approach to "which faction do you support" generally involves "me" (my character) being on or around Capital at the start of the war. A central location allows the kind of choice that isn't available to someone who is stuck out in the boonies. Of course, that's "choice" as in "where are you going to flee to when you escape from Lucan?" rather than a leisurely intellectual decision.
Intellectually, of course, "I" (my character) would presumably be familiar with the track record of the major nobles, so their general political inclinations should be obvious enough. Of course, that doesn't apply to Lucan, who was a non-entity before the Assassination. In fact, most eventual supporters of the other factions probably were willing to give him a chance to begin with, and my character would probably be no exception.
I picked Brzk, of course, because (a) his writeup in Rebellion sourcebook made him look less evil than most of the others, even though he was never going to be Emperior, and (b) he was a comedy talking dog.
I also tend to make the assumption that my character is actually aware of and cares about the details of Imperial politics. I'm not sure that that would be true of most Imperials. It wouldn't necessarily even be true of all Nobles! The implication is, in fact, that "my character" would actually be a Noble in a setting where this kind of choice would be relevant.
For what it's worth, I seldom play military or naval characters, so my characters would, if not noble, largely be spending their time trying not to get drafted or blown up by commerce raiders. In other words, they wouldn't be particularly keen on any faction.
Well, unless they are spies.
Or Ine Givar operatives.
OK, enough of that.
Being your own faction:
Basically, you have to start in a position of some authority, or be able to get into a position of authority in another faction, and then defect.
Assuming the latter case, you really only need to be well-connected. And lucky. After all, you are probably going to be working for Lucan...
The weakest factions of the early Rebellion were probably some of the Vargr groups that started seizing Imperial worlds. While the big players were doubtless real navies, there were probably corsair bands scavenging around the edges, too.
There were probably also pockets of Imperial worlds that came to arrangements with the Vargr, and Aslan, effectively becoming small independent states, at least until someone nastier came along.
Think of it like this: how did Tobia _really_ fall to the Aslan? What do you think the chances are that Tobia and the worlds around it were really a faction of their own, unimpressed by Norris? Yes, I believe there is some canonical stuff about "what happened", but that can be subjected to the "wheels within wheels", "what you see is not exactly what you get" techniques that Traveller encourages.
You might be able to do something in Old Expanses, too. The Solomani takeover might not be quite as tidy as is usually thought. Paying lip-service to the Solomani, while fishing in troubled waters is a perfectly viable hobby, as long as you don't get caught.
And then there are the hi-pop worlds that try to play the factions off against each other.
In other words, there is plenty of scope for subfactions to exist from very early on. Once you get to the Hard Times, of course, the universe is your oyster.
My general approach to "which faction do you support" generally involves "me" (my character) being on or around Capital at the start of the war. A central location allows the kind of choice that isn't available to someone who is stuck out in the boonies. Of course, that's "choice" as in "where are you going to flee to when you escape from Lucan?" rather than a leisurely intellectual decision.
Intellectually, of course, "I" (my character) would presumably be familiar with the track record of the major nobles, so their general political inclinations should be obvious enough. Of course, that doesn't apply to Lucan, who was a non-entity before the Assassination. In fact, most eventual supporters of the other factions probably were willing to give him a chance to begin with, and my character would probably be no exception.
I picked Brzk, of course, because (a) his writeup in Rebellion sourcebook made him look less evil than most of the others, even though he was never going to be Emperior, and (b) he was a comedy talking dog.
I also tend to make the assumption that my character is actually aware of and cares about the details of Imperial politics. I'm not sure that that would be true of most Imperials. It wouldn't necessarily even be true of all Nobles! The implication is, in fact, that "my character" would actually be a Noble in a setting where this kind of choice would be relevant.
For what it's worth, I seldom play military or naval characters, so my characters would, if not noble, largely be spending their time trying not to get drafted or blown up by commerce raiders. In other words, they wouldn't be particularly keen on any faction.
Well, unless they are spies.
Or Ine Givar operatives.
OK, enough of that.
Being your own faction:
Basically, you have to start in a position of some authority, or be able to get into a position of authority in another faction, and then defect.
Assuming the latter case, you really only need to be well-connected. And lucky. After all, you are probably going to be working for Lucan...
The weakest factions of the early Rebellion were probably some of the Vargr groups that started seizing Imperial worlds. While the big players were doubtless real navies, there were probably corsair bands scavenging around the edges, too.
There were probably also pockets of Imperial worlds that came to arrangements with the Vargr, and Aslan, effectively becoming small independent states, at least until someone nastier came along.
Think of it like this: how did Tobia _really_ fall to the Aslan? What do you think the chances are that Tobia and the worlds around it were really a faction of their own, unimpressed by Norris? Yes, I believe there is some canonical stuff about "what happened", but that can be subjected to the "wheels within wheels", "what you see is not exactly what you get" techniques that Traveller encourages.
You might be able to do something in Old Expanses, too. The Solomani takeover might not be quite as tidy as is usually thought. Paying lip-service to the Solomani, while fishing in troubled waters is a perfectly viable hobby, as long as you don't get caught.
And then there are the hi-pop worlds that try to play the factions off against each other.
In other words, there is plenty of scope for subfactions to exist from very early on. Once you get to the Hard Times, of course, the universe is your oyster.
Greetings and salutations,
The GM did the campaign really well. It's good to know someone who is related to someone in the intelligence community.
I never said it was easy and I never said that my character was confined to one place. The GM that ran the campaign involved a lot of intrigue, especially in Capitol. Hmm, Onya. *drool* There were supporters and recruiters from all over depending on where we were at the time. We spent time in Deneb, Delphi, Daibei, and the tickets we got from Dulinor was to go wreck Lucan's stuff. After awhile, we just pulled back to Delphi as our base camp and operated out of it to the surrounding subsectors.
The GM did the campaign really well. It's good to know someone who is related to someone in the intelligence community.
Michael Schulz
SOC-12
I have to admit that I picked Daibei as much as a ref as as a player. Quite frankly the odds in Vegas, based on past experience, is that if I ever I find enough people willing to play Traveller I'll wind up being the Gamemaster. And, as a GM, I generally don't run military epics, so this isn't a matter of choosing which Navy the PCs will start in.
So that said, and in the spirit of Bills last post, I would pick Daibei because I think it is a solid setting. Barely detailed, but with enough canonical trouble to keep things interesting. And besides, I think Craig, as a wronged Sector Duke, probably didn't shed that many tears when he was given the oppertunity to reclaim his old powers. Indeed, I think he was playing the old 'Pocket Empire' game and counting on whoever held the Iridium throne to be exhausted enough to offer him a sweet deal to reintegrate with the Imperium.
My number two choice as both a player and a ref is Lucan. Here I would involve my players, however tangentally, with the military-intelligence machine and start them off with all the pomp, circumstance and rightgeousness that the full might of the 3I being brought to bear against a regicide deserves.
Of course when things start failing, superior officers/patrons/contacts begin to 'disappear.' Then the orders become more and more distasteful. All the while the TAS will keep announcing how close Lucan is to victory and how necessary his dismissal of top level bureucrats and advisors from the old regime was...
So that said, and in the spirit of Bills last post, I would pick Daibei because I think it is a solid setting. Barely detailed, but with enough canonical trouble to keep things interesting. And besides, I think Craig, as a wronged Sector Duke, probably didn't shed that many tears when he was given the oppertunity to reclaim his old powers. Indeed, I think he was playing the old 'Pocket Empire' game and counting on whoever held the Iridium throne to be exhausted enough to offer him a sweet deal to reintegrate with the Imperium.
My number two choice as both a player and a ref is Lucan. Here I would involve my players, however tangentally, with the military-intelligence machine and start them off with all the pomp, circumstance and rightgeousness that the full might of the 3I being brought to bear against a regicide deserves.
Of course when things start failing, superior officers/patrons/contacts begin to 'disappear.' Then the orders become more and more distasteful. All the while the TAS will keep announcing how close Lucan is to victory and how necessary his dismissal of top level bureucrats and advisors from the old regime was...
Greetings and salutations,
Starting your own faction may not be so hard if you could convince those that defected from Lucan to join you. Another possiblity is to start one after the sector/subsector you are in declares its independence from the Imperium or whoever.
Joining forces with the Vargr could work too. If you can recruit some Vargr and run a few successful raids to provide booty...
Starting your own faction does not need to be a huge undertaking in the beginning. Start small and let it grow from there (provided no other faction or law enforcement agency crushes you under).
Starting your own faction may not be so hard if you could convince those that defected from Lucan to join you. Another possiblity is to start one after the sector/subsector you are in declares its independence from the Imperium or whoever.
Joining forces with the Vargr could work too. If you can recruit some Vargr and run a few successful raids to provide booty...
Starting your own faction does not need to be a huge undertaking in the beginning. Start small and let it grow from there (provided no other faction or law enforcement agency crushes you under).
Bill: if the players are nobles, then their choice DOES matter. Even if, IYTU, they don't participate in the Imperial Moot, they can and will lobby those nobles who do.
That being said, it could be hazardous to do so in Lucan's Imperium, unwise in Dulinor's, especially if pro-craig or pro-lucan, and useless in the Ziru Sirkaa and Domain of Sol.
That being said, it could be hazardous to do so in Lucan's Imperium, unwise in Dulinor's, especially if pro-craig or pro-lucan, and useless in the Ziru Sirkaa and Domain of Sol.
I didn't think it was easy, I thought it was damn near impossible. And that's no matter what wrinkles your 'intelligence community' GM came up with.
How'd you guys get in and out of Lucan's factional area so easily? Did he think you were working for him? What happened when he found out you weren't? Or, more likely, when you didn't produce the results he demanded?
Okay, so you were some sort of a 57th Century freelance OSS group or something.
I ran my finger between the locations you mentioned on the yearly maps found in the Rebellion Sourcebook. Tell me, how'd you get from Delphi to Deneb? One route has you squeezing through the slaughterhouse between Dulinor and Lucan, THEN crossing the re-established Ziru Sirka, and THEN crossing Corridor. There are lots of MT books and adventures that detail just how dangerous that is.
Of course you could have crossed the Rift somehow instead. If you did it from Daibei, you'd need to avoid the Aslan. If you did from Dulinor's faction, you'd need to get permission or sneak through somehow.
It sounds like a fun campaign. I'd like to see how it works under the hood before I buy it however.
Have fun,
Bill
Aramis,
Score a laugh point.
Re-read the original post. He's got someone's family torn between Margaret and Norris, two of the factions most distant from one another.
I can just see a Denebian noble lobbying another one to support Margaret. By the way, have you ever watched any of Bob Newhart's one-sided comedy phone call sketches? It would go something like this...
Baron Chumley: Hello? Hello? Yes... Marquis Pretoria? Yes... this is Baron Chumley... yes Chumley... Cee Aitch You... yes... the one with the fuel purification cession on Arglebargle-IX... yes...
Why am I calling? Well... we've been thinking on Arglebargle that you should support Margaret... Yes, Arglebargle... Aye Bee Are... yes... Yes Margaret...
Yes, we do realize her territory is over four sectors away... Yes, we do realize one would ahve to cross several battlefronts to get there... Yes, we do realize the Zhos, Vargr and Aslan pose a greater threat to the Domain at the moment... Well...
We were thinking you could speak for Margaret at the Imperial moot... Yes, Lucan did suspend it for a year... yes, that was over a year ago and there has been no call to reconvene... Yes... Yes... Well...
We think she could do a better job than Norris, that's all... Yes, even though she's hundreds of parsecs away... Yes, even though getting messages back and forth is nearly impossible...
No, this isn't a crank call...
Believe me, it only gets worse from there.
Have fun,
Bill
Greetings and salutations,
And since information is a key to power, we made out pretty well. We had papers from factions operating in those sectors that cleared us (since they were using us as well). We had to give a little to get a little or to make headway on our missions. When Margaret started ops against the Solomani and Lucan factions, we just stayed relatively put in the sectors close to her stronghold.
Ships we lost:
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It was definitely a fun campaign. There were a few rough spots due to various reasons, but we were in it for the fun.
Lucan was the hardest to work for and eventually, that faction found out about us. One of us got captured and "interrogated" extensively. The POW gave up information and disinformation to make the torture stop. When Lucan said by any means necessary, he meant it. The PC was charged with treason and executed.
It took a lot of lip service (Onya, while you're on your knees...), grabbing our ankles (You might feel a moment of increased pressure), and taking one for the team (Someone get him/her a towel).
And since information is a key to power, we made out pretty well. We had papers from factions operating in those sectors that cleared us (since they were using us as well). We had to give a little to get a little or to make headway on our missions. When Margaret started ops against the Solomani and Lucan factions, we just stayed relatively put in the sectors close to her stronghold.
Ships we lost:
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- the merchant we started with</font>
- Mother's yacht (actually, it got shot up real bad on the mission to save the PC that was captured and "interrogated".</font>
It was definitely a fun campaign. There were a few rough spots due to various reasons, but we were in it for the fun.
Stei'awtliyrl
SOC-12
Well, this is a popularity contest more than an election. After all, once Lucan disbands the Moot for a year without losing his fleets, what is left of the Imperium is a totalitarian dictatorship. Same goes for almost all of the other factions, notice how each (ex)Imperial faction is described by a bio of their leader.
Shortly after he assumes power, Lucan proves himself to be incapable of leading the Imperium. Support for Ol Luke is getting myself involved with a paranoid-Saltinesque dictator.
Dulinor isn't much better. Again, he's firmly in the "total control Emperor" camp. Where's his plan for Democratization of the Imperium? Where's his work in the Moot to bring change and reform? Nope, he hatches a plot to sieze total power by "Right of Assassination". In many ways he's just as bad as Lucan, only Dulinor can at least make good populist speeches for the cameras.
Brzk is a good choice, and if he wasn't completely hamstrung by racist policies within the Moot itself, he would have been in the running. In a post-Rebellion intact Imperium, he would still make a great ArchDuke and an Imperial Advisor.
Norris would also be a good choice except he doesn't want the job. All Norris wants to do is ensure that Deneb survive the Rebellion as intact as possible. Had Norris endeavoured to save the Imperium, he would have done so.
Margaret is my personal choice. Not necessarily the most fun choice from a GM standpoint, but she does have a claim to the Throne (thus satisfying Imperial tradition) she's got the support of the Moot (which will keep the institution around), and most importantly is competent. She's not going to change the Imperium, but she would preserve it so that a future emperor, perhaps one with vision and destiny could make it greater than it was (but that's the subject of another poll and a completely different Mileu).
Duke Craig just doesn't have the *oomph* to become Emperor. He's sort of a second-tier Norris, interested in keeping his little corner of the Imperium alive.
Strephon could have saved the Imperium a number of times, or at least become as much of a contender as Margaret (with a stronger legitimate claim to the throne to boot). But, he seemed bound and determined to NOT be Emperor. He's the W.H. Taft of Emperors in the Traveller Universe.
The others are external states which are either taking advantage of, or are outright trying to destroy the Imperium.
We already have a pretty good idea of what a Solomani Confederation controlled Imperium would be like (and the spectacular crash they would lead to). Besides, if the SC managed to retake Earth and go on to conquer enough of the Imperium to become the new Supereme Interstellar Superpower, who would they use to unite their party under one cause? They'd have destroyed the traditional object of their hatred.
Vland is in a similar boat. A Vilani controlled Imperium worked for millenia, but ultimately failed. The Vilani lack a critical social vitality that builds Empire. A new Vilani Imperium would stagnate and die.
The Vargr are pirates. No recovery there.
The Zhodani don't want the trouble of a huge Imperium. They're happy with what they have, and are happier still that they don't have a passive-aggressive Imperium on their Rimward border anymore.
The Aslan might be able to manage a sizeable chunk of the Imperium. There would certainly be a HUGE change in culture (with Aslan siezing the topmost ranks). In the end, I'm personally happier seeing a return to a stable Imperium, rather than an expanded Aslan Hierate. (My character Stei'awtliyrl does disagree with me on this point. He'd be thrilled to live in the Greater Aslan Hierate, and never have to worry about "tolerance" again.)
I think that covers everyone.
Shortly after he assumes power, Lucan proves himself to be incapable of leading the Imperium. Support for Ol Luke is getting myself involved with a paranoid-Saltinesque dictator.
Dulinor isn't much better. Again, he's firmly in the "total control Emperor" camp. Where's his plan for Democratization of the Imperium? Where's his work in the Moot to bring change and reform? Nope, he hatches a plot to sieze total power by "Right of Assassination". In many ways he's just as bad as Lucan, only Dulinor can at least make good populist speeches for the cameras.
Brzk is a good choice, and if he wasn't completely hamstrung by racist policies within the Moot itself, he would have been in the running. In a post-Rebellion intact Imperium, he would still make a great ArchDuke and an Imperial Advisor.
Norris would also be a good choice except he doesn't want the job. All Norris wants to do is ensure that Deneb survive the Rebellion as intact as possible. Had Norris endeavoured to save the Imperium, he would have done so.
Margaret is my personal choice. Not necessarily the most fun choice from a GM standpoint, but she does have a claim to the Throne (thus satisfying Imperial tradition) she's got the support of the Moot (which will keep the institution around), and most importantly is competent. She's not going to change the Imperium, but she would preserve it so that a future emperor, perhaps one with vision and destiny could make it greater than it was (but that's the subject of another poll and a completely different Mileu).
Duke Craig just doesn't have the *oomph* to become Emperor. He's sort of a second-tier Norris, interested in keeping his little corner of the Imperium alive.
Strephon could have saved the Imperium a number of times, or at least become as much of a contender as Margaret (with a stronger legitimate claim to the throne to boot). But, he seemed bound and determined to NOT be Emperor. He's the W.H. Taft of Emperors in the Traveller Universe.
The others are external states which are either taking advantage of, or are outright trying to destroy the Imperium.
We already have a pretty good idea of what a Solomani Confederation controlled Imperium would be like (and the spectacular crash they would lead to). Besides, if the SC managed to retake Earth and go on to conquer enough of the Imperium to become the new Supereme Interstellar Superpower, who would they use to unite their party under one cause? They'd have destroyed the traditional object of their hatred.
Vland is in a similar boat. A Vilani controlled Imperium worked for millenia, but ultimately failed. The Vilani lack a critical social vitality that builds Empire. A new Vilani Imperium would stagnate and die.
The Vargr are pirates. No recovery there.
The Zhodani don't want the trouble of a huge Imperium. They're happy with what they have, and are happier still that they don't have a passive-aggressive Imperium on their Rimward border anymore.
The Aslan might be able to manage a sizeable chunk of the Imperium. There would certainly be a HUGE change in culture (with Aslan siezing the topmost ranks). In the end, I'm personally happier seeing a return to a stable Imperium, rather than an expanded Aslan Hierate. (My character Stei'awtliyrl does disagree with me on this point. He'd be thrilled to live in the Greater Aslan Hierate, and never have to worry about "tolerance" again.)
I think that covers everyone.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Daibei/ Craig as ref and player.
Actually, I disagree. The Vargr are more or less "barbarian invaders". Ultimately, they would tend to settle down and establish more or less stable states.
This was implied in the DGP Vargr and Vilani book.
Of course, these "more or less stable states" wouldn't be the Imperium, but would be typical mixed Vargr/Human/whatever states, of which there are plenty of examples.
Greetings and salutations,
In essence, you could use the Mongols or the Huns as a model for how the Vargr would begin forming more stable states. Even the Romans to a certain extent (conquer those just outside your border, then integrate them into your society). But that is just my thought for the Vargr at the moment.
In essence, you could use the Mongols or the Huns as a model for how the Vargr would begin forming more stable states. Even the Romans to a certain extent (conquer those just outside your border, then integrate them into your society). But that is just my thought for the Vargr at the moment.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
You'd think. But a lot seem to just lurk now and then and many seem to have logged on once and not been back. Mostly seems like the same hardcore hundred or so that are regulars here. And even some of them are rather irregular
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
Ummm. Is there proof of her babe-ness?Originally posted by Piper:
Margaret.
She's a babe.
Only on those sites that we dare not publicize when there are potential minors present.
Seriously, though, when one looks at most of GDW artwork in terms of the female form, it comes out pretty plain. Usually, we have the Princess motifs (heavily used in the early CT days), butch look or androgynous. Whereas, the artist selected to do a picture of Margaret clearly had glamour on his/her own mind.
Although, only Isis, Dulinor's daughter has been described as a babe - I picture her to like Jolie in Mrs. Smith.
Seriously, though, when one looks at most of GDW artwork in terms of the female form, it comes out pretty plain. Usually, we have the Princess motifs (heavily used in the early CT days), butch look or androgynous. Whereas, the artist selected to do a picture of Margaret clearly had glamour on his/her own mind.
Although, only Isis, Dulinor's daughter has been described as a babe - I picture her to like Jolie in Mrs. Smith.
JustinThyme
SOC-10
With regards to that obscene remark from a certain "Far-Trader": since my undertaking consumption of whole grain cereals and other ruffage, my irregularity has diminished with acceptable social recognition!
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
No no Sol Pniering, not that kind of irregularity
But it's good to see you around and hear you're indulging a healthy lifestyle
As to my statement I made up, er, researched some statistics
Somebody has done this kind of thing before and I needed a little mindless distraction so...
Citizens with altogether too much time on their hands (i.e. 1000 posts or more) = 35
Citizens who know how to balance RealLife(tm) and forums (10-999 posts) = 188
Citizens who could contribute more but are probably busy with RealLife(tm) and, oh I don't know, playing Traveller (10-99 posts) = 512
Citizens who seem to have landed here once or twice and then misjumped (1-9 posts) = 1077
Citizens who are lying low or just arrived, or were simply passing through and didn't even buy something at the gift shop (0 posts) = 6195
These figures are accurate at the time of polling with a margin of error of +/- 5% in 1 in 20 times
By the way, the more attentive may notice that adds up to 6195, while the total at the top of the forum page reads 6200 citizens. There must be a few bodies buried around here someplace
It wasn't me!
As to my statement I made up, er, researched some statistics
Citizens with altogether too much time on their hands
(i.e. 1000 posts or more) = 35Citizens who know how to balance RealLife(tm) and forums (10-999 posts) = 188
Citizens who could contribute more but are probably busy with RealLife(tm) and, oh I don't know, playing Traveller
(10-99 posts) = 512Citizens who seem to have landed here once or twice and then misjumped (1-9 posts) = 1077
Citizens who are lying low or just arrived, or were simply passing through and didn't even buy something at the gift shop (0 posts) = 6195
These figures are accurate at the time of polling with a margin of error of +/- 5% in 1 in 20 times
By the way, the more attentive may notice that adds up to 6195, while the total at the top of the forum page reads 6200 citizens. There must be a few bodies buried around here someplace
