System Tactics

[Spinward Flow]

The energy has to go somewhere.

"Ground! That's what I'll call it! Ground! I wonder if it will be friends with me?"

 

[Condottiere]

Current ortillery munitions cost a fortune, and are semi dumb.

Suspect a lot of heat shielding, at hundred kilostarbux per tonne of hull/shell.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

A LBB2 missile is 50kg.

You can actually get twenty missiles per cargo ton.

A 50 kg missile less drive, fuel or batteries, etc. means the warhead is about 5kg or less. That isn't much at all.

The number of missiles per ton varies between versions. 12 to 20 per ton. Sand canisters stay at 20 in all versions. Thus a barrier of just a few kilos can protect a whole spaceship from laser fire...

 

[Condottiere]

Canisters don't have organic propulsion nor guidance.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

True - but at 50kg, and a density of 1 then in order to cover a 36m type S scout this needs to cover 1017m2. That means the sand cloud has a coverage of 49g of material per square metre. That is 0.49mm thick if evenly distributed.

And it's getting thinner by the second as the cloud expands.

 

[Ulsyus]

If nothing else the missile turret can be set for lower gravity to assist in lifting/handling.

I'd be pretty hopeful that by TL10 there's be some pretty useful automation to assist loading missiles from their magazine, wherever in the ship that was. Otherwise things could get pretty difficult when there's battle damage to in-ship grav systems.

 

[Ulsyus]

I have parts of a game (don't know what happened to the parts that are missing) called Star Viking by Dwarfstar Games that had system cards with exactly that sort of set up. Box for main world, gas giants, asteroid belts even a space station on a couple as I recall. Always thought that it was a neat way to game fighting at the system level. Fleet elements could disengage and either leave or move to another part of the system.

View attachment 3667

That's fantastic! Very similar to what I imagined, thanks so much!

 

[kilemall]

Atmospheric Drag IS A FACTOR ... but it's not a "don't even bother" type of thing (particularly with respect to weapons engineering).

Not saying it’s a not bother, am saying it’s diminishing returns at a certain point. What that point is is mostly a game preference choice not a modeling/ sim one.

I'd be pretty hopeful that by TL10 there's be some pretty useful automation to assist loading missiles from their magazine, wherever in the ship that was. Otherwise things could get pretty difficult when there's battle damage to in-ship grav systems.

Use robot builds. Done.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Not saying it’s a not bother, am saying it’s diminishing returns at a certain point. What that point is is mostly a game preference choice not a modeling/ sim one.

Use robot builds. Done.

The requirement for manual reloading is the result of an RPG game design decision, not the limits of mechanical systems.

In fairness, this might not have been the case back in '77, but autoloaders aren't all that high tech even if they weren't as common when the first set of rules were written as they have since become.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

The requirement for manual reloading is the result of an RPG game design decision, not the limits of mechanical systems.

In fairness, this might not have been the case back in '77, but autoloaders aren't all that high tech even if they weren't as common when the first set of rules were written as they have since become.

The turrets were predicated on launch tubes with tiny magazine. The reloads are in the hold. In many designs, the loader has 5 mins (or less) to get the reload across the ship, through various doors that really should be sealed for damage control purposes - and then has to return twice more because it's a triple turret! The ready rounds could be fed from an auto-loader. The Gunner's role would be keeping that loader fed with rounds.

The whole concept of aiming a missile turret in the direction of the target becomes irrelevant (in the real world) later. Traveller was designed before the Naval preference for vertical launch tubes that you don't reload while at sea.

 

[mike wightman]

I posted the canon on this.
A missile rack has one missile ready to fire and then two more that can be fired in subsequent turns. A turret then has space for an additional 12 missiles.
The rules are

Each standard missile rack can hold one missile ready to fire and two additional
missiles ready for future game turns. The role of the gunner in the turret is to aim
and fire the weaponry in the turret; once the missile racks and ready missiles are
exhausted, the gunner must reload them with new missiles. A gunner can load new
missiles into the racks and still operate the weaponry in a game turn.
The standard turret has room to store an additional 12 missiles in it. Once these
missiles have been used, the turret must be restocked with missiles carried elsewhere
in the ship (usually in the cargo hold).
Restocking a turret with missiles is accomplished during the game turn interphase.
If the gunner participates in restocking, he may not operate weaponry in the turret
in the next game turn. It is possible for non-gunner crewmembers who are not otherwise
engaged to perform restocking instead. One person can restock a turret* in one
game turn.

* restocking would replace the three in the rack and the twelve in the turret.
Note a triple missile rack will have nine "ready" missiles

 

[Condottiere]

Missile bay would seem to be the answer to that, in the sense that there is adequate space for missile magazine and launchers.

For missile launchers, you might as well forget the turret and just have them as fixtures, though I'd say in a dogfight, pointing the turretted launchers in the correct direction should be an advantage.

 

[kilemall]

I’d say the turret missiles were based on the 1950s/60s rail launchers.

List of United States Navy Guided Missile Launching Systems - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Ulsyus]

The whole concept of aiming a missile turret in the direction of the target becomes irrelevant (in the real world) later. Traveller was designed before the Naval preference for vertical launch tubes that you don't reload while at sea.

That starts a whole other conversation on relative delta-Vs

I’d say the turret missiles were based on the 1950s/60s rail launchers.

That's a fair call.
Though it's been a while since I drew any, when I used to do deckplans I would add the missile magazines next to the turret for reloading purposes

 

[whartung]

Of course the rail launchers from the 50s/60s were for anti-aircraft missiles, not anti-shipping missiles.

Much of what seem to be a Traveller Missile seem more anti-aircraft sized than anti-ship sized.

 

[Condottiere]

Torpedoes.

Though, which missile is a (starwar)ship killer?

 

[whartung]

Torpedoes.

Torpedoes are bigger than Traveller missiles, and they get the added benefit of detonating underwater, which boost their impact.

 

[Baroun Tardis]

A 50 kg missile less drive, fuel or batteries, etc. means the warhead is about 5kg or less. That isn't much at all.

I have to wonder though -
Compare 5kg of TL4 black powder to 5kg of TL7 C4 and there's a substantial difference
Leaves me thinking that 5kg of TL12+ explosives probably has a pretty big boom to it.

 

[Spinward Flow]

the warhead is about 5kg or less. That isn't much at all.

Try again.

LBB S3 (Revised), p6-7

Warheads

• High Explosive (TL=6): 10kg per explosive charge
• Focused Charge (TL=9): 10kg/20kg/30kg
• Nuclear (TL=8): 30 kg
• Enhanced Radiation (TL=9): 20kg
• Fusion (TL=8-9): 40kg
• Fusion (TL=10): 20kg

Minimum warhead mass is 10kg and can go up to 40kg ... in a 50kg missile.

 

[Condottiere]

Stuff it inside a canister, and you have a dumb bomb.