T5 Eneri Dinsha exemplar questions

[opensent]

I've not really engaged with T5 for a few years, so I was pleasantly surprised to see that there have been updates. I downloaded the latest files from Drivethru and I'm going through Book 1 and have two quick question about the Eneri Dinsha examples provided:

1) Page 63 says: Some skills (Animals, Driver, Engineer, Fighter, Flyer,Gunner, Heavy Weapons, Pilot, Seafarer) include within them several Knowledges. Education or Training can only impart the Knowledges; the Skills themselves are not obtainable in Education or Training.

On page 61 however, Eneri Dinsha ends his college education with Pilot-4. What didn't he have to take Small Craft-4, or Spacecraft ACS-4 or BCS-4?


2) Page 66. Eneri Dinsha 9AB58A Serves the Empire - He must choose from Str C2 C3 Int for his first Risk and Reward cycle; he leads withhis best: C3 End.

Question - How is Eneri choosing Endurance (C3) for his controlling characteristic? The chart on page 64 makes it look like Spacers choose C1 C2 or C4 for controlling characteristics...

Sorry if these have been covered already, I searched the forum and couldn't find any answers.

Thanks in advance!

 

[whulorigan]

I've not really engaged with T5 for a few years, so I was pleasantly surprised to see that there have been updates. I downloaded the latest files from Drivethru and I'm going through Book 1 and have two quick question about the Eneri Dinsha examples provided:

1) Page 63 says: Some skills (Animals, Driver, Engineer, Fighter, Flyer,Gunner, Heavy Weapons, Pilot, Seafarer) include within them several Knowledges. Education or Training can only impart the Knowledges; the Skills themselves are not obtainable in Education or Training.

On page 61 however, Eneri Dinsha ends his college education with Pilot-4. What didn't he have to take Small Craft-4, or Spacecraft ACS-4 or BCS-4?

Didn't have a chance to really look over the examples, but keep in mind that Skills are considered to be "broad-based" and "knowledges" are particular areas of expertise.

In Training, when one receives a "Skill", the first two times one must take it as one of the contained Knowledges within the skill. Upon the third receipt of the Skill, one receives "Skill-1" (and continues to receive "Skill +1" thereafter), and the prior Knowledges taken will stack with the Skill when those particular Knowledges are employed. Note that there is an exception with ANM-Schools in the Military, which ONLY teach Knowledges, regardless of prior Skill-level.

So someone who had rolled "Pilot" four times might have "Small Craft-1", "Spacecraft/ACS-1", and Pilot-2, meaning that he would pilot a BCS Ship with Mod+2, and an ACS Ship or Small Craft with Mod+3.

 

[opensent]

Yes, however, at the end of the exemplar's College, NOTC, and Flight School education/training, his stat block is:

Eneri Dinsha 9AB58A. Genetic 4553XX
from: Regina (1910 Spinward Marches)
Trader-1, Chef-1.
Psychology-2, Robotics-1, Astrogation-1, Pilot-4.
Imperial Navy Ensign O1.

Age 23. Born 069-1082 (or deferred)
Current Date: 001-1105 (if CharGen ends now).

Why/how does the exemplar have Pilot-4?

 

[agorski]

Haven't researched but I'm pretty sure Flight School awards Pilot +1 and not knowledges.

 

[opensent]

Please trust that I'm going to give 'Didn't have a chance to really look over the examples,...' and 'Haven't researched but...' responses all the consideration they warrant.

Without substantive, informed responses to these specific questions, I'm forced to conclude that T5 is still the dumpster fire that it was when I first read through it, almost a decade ago.

 

[Dirk Le Daring]

G'day. I have had this issue, and an answer was provided by @AnotherDilbert. Here https://www.travellerrpg.com/thread...acter-gen-wondering-where-i-went-wrong.41005/



Still unclear to me though. There seems to be conflict, as I have not seen this "officially" clarified. But I still want to know



Hope it is of some help.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Yes, however, at the end of the exemplar's College, NOTC, and Flight School education/training, his stat block is:

Eneri Dinsha 9AB58A. Genetic 4553XX
from: Regina (1910 Spinward Marches)
Trader-1, Chef-1.
Psychology-2, Robotics-1, Astrogation-1, Pilot-4.
...
Why/how does the exemplar have Pilot-4?

Either the rules are wrong or the example is incomplete?

According to the rules Pilot is like a cascade skill in MT, you have to select one of the included specialisations.
If you get Pilot you have to select {SmallCraft, ACS, BCS, or PilotSkill}. Pilot skill can only be selected once you have two levels of the included knowledges. Pilot skill cannot be selected in training or education.


I would say Eneri should select a knowledge (or several knowledges), just like Young Barr on B1p62.

Note that Eneri get his first level of Pilot in NOTC, this is definitely training and should definitely be selected as an included knowledge.

Receiving Pilot in Flight School is no different from receiving it in a trade school or a table in the Spacer career, the knowledge rules still apply.


I would say the rules are clear:

T5.10, B1p63, sidebar:
THE KNOWLEDGES-ONLY SKILLS
_ _ Some skills (Animals, Driver, Engineer, Fighter, Flyer, Gunner, Heavy Weapons, Pilot, Seafarer) include within them several Knowledges. Education or Training can only impart the Knowledges; the Skills themselves are not obtainable in Education or Training.

T5.10, B1p135:
Education Knowledges. In the Education system, it is not possible to acquire Animals, Driver, Engineer, Fighter, Flyer, Gunner, Heavy Weapons, Language, Pilot, or Seafarer directly; Education provides only the contained Knowledges.

T5.10, B1p158:
Pilot
_ _ Pilot is skill in the maneuver of ships and small craft.
_ _ Skill Acquisition. Pilot follows a standard pattern: Knowledge, Knowledge, Skill. The character initially learns a subset of the skill (a knowledge), then more knowledge, and finally the full skill.

Regardless of how you learn Pilot, you must first select two levels of included knowledge.

 

[Jean-Nicolas Joubert]

Thanks Another Dilbert, this seems clear.

On that subject, there remains 1 question for me : as Flight school gives Pilot-3 whould you allow 2 knowledges + Pilot Skill-1 (general rule) or as it is still a school only 3 knowledges from Pilot skill ?
As per what i undersood from the above, I ruled 3 knowledges from Pilot in my game.
Any insight ?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I would only allow knowledge, as Flight School is education.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

2) Page 66. Eneri Dinsha 9AB58A Serves the Empire - He must choose from Str C2 C3 Int for his first Risk and Reward cycle; he leads withhis best: C3 End.

Question - How is Eneri choosing Endurance (C3) for his controlling characteristic? The chart on page 64 makes it look like Spacers choose C1 C2 or C4 for controlling characteristics...

The example is wrong. It was wrong in T5.09 and not changed for T5.10.

Yes, Spacers can chose from C1, C2, or C4.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Thanks Another Dilbert, this seems clear.

On that subject, there remains 1 question for me : as Flight school gives Pilot-3 whould you allow 2 knowledges + Pilot Skill-1 (general rule) or as it is still a school only 3 knowledges from Pilot skill ?
As per what i undersood from the above, I ruled 3 knowledges from Pilot in my game.
Any insight ?

Once they have the requisite 2 Knowledges I let them take the actual Skill. So at the end of Flight School they will have say Pilot-1 (Small Craft-1, ACS-1) or some variation of that. I mean they could skip Small Craft and go ACS-1 and BCS-1 or ACS or Small Craft-2.

I would only allow knowledge, as Flight School is education.

Yeah, but the primary note is that you have the 2 prerequisite Knowledges, after that is squared away, the Player can choose to take the actual Skill. I take it as you can’t just get the Skill without the prior Knowledges but if you do have them then you can choose to take the Skill as you have the base of required Knowledges.