T5 Errata Discussion Thread

[Ackehece]

am still plugging away and if David wants to get together on this I can work with him. So far I like the new layout but I still see some of the issues we discussed related to combat still there. :rofl:

 

[Ackehece]

The problem is that checking and correcting everything to match the updates is a bigger job than just creating new material.

going through this right now with imperial lines 9 cargo ... the update is appreciated! but it does require that I need to rewrite some stuff (mostly references)

 

[DonM]

As of now, this thread is only for discussing T5 hardback release errata. Errata related to the T5.09 pdf release should go in the new thread.

 

[rancke]

I understand from a secondary source quoting p. 123 of T5 that the term chimera is used to denote (in addition to actual chimera) variant races too. (I'm not sure if this is from the hardback or the 5.09 pdf, but I think it's from the hardback; my apologies if I'm mistaken).

A chimera is an organism containing cells with two (or more) distinct genetic patterns. Variant human races are genetically modified, but the genetic pattern is the same in all their cells.

Now, I admit that one could say that the meaning of the term 'chimera' has changed by the Classic Era to include any genetically modified species, chimeric or not. But is there any good reason to deliberately distance it from the 21st Century meaning? All you do is conflate two distinct concepts, which seems to me to be a Bad Thing. Especially when we already have the perfectly good term 'variant' for non-chimeric geneered species?


Hans

 

[whulorigan]

I understand from a secondary source quoting p. 123 of T5 that the term chimera is used to denote (in addition to actual chimera) variant races too. (I'm not sure if this is from the hardback or the 5.09 pdf, but I think it's from the hardback; my apologies if I'm mistaken).

A chimera is an organism containing cells with two (or more) distinct genetic patterns. Variant human races are genetically modified, but the genetic pattern is the same in all their cells.

Now, I admit that one could say that the meaning of the term 'chimera' has changed by the Classic Era to include any genetically modified species, chimeric or not. But is there any good reason to deliberately distance it from the 21st Century meaning? All you do is conflate two distinct concepts, which seems to me to be a Bad Thing. Especially when we already have the perfectly good term 'variant' for non-chimeric geneered species?

The term "Chimera" is from the Hardback, and is referenced in the section on genetics. It specifically refers to an organism that has been genetically engineered from two or more different species, or which are inter-fertile. It is used as a synonym for "hybrid".

The following quotes are from v5.09, p.91 (but they are in the hardback v5.00 as well):

Chimeras
A chimera is a hybrid of two or more distinct species, produced naturally or through geneering. Chimeras are distinguishable from clones (duplicates created from existing genetic templates), ...

NATURAL CHIMERA
is the result of interspecies fertility producing offspring which share details of each species. Offspring may be nonviable or sterile. If viable and non-sterile, it breeds true with other viable, non-sterile individuals. Two distinct sophont species are inter-fertile if they both have the same Genetic Profile. Such matings are rare and may need to overcome interface obstacles (perhaps through in vitro fertilization). Natural Chimeras have natural organic bodies, natural brains, and naturally formed personalities. They function in all respects as a natural sophont. Natural Chimerism may explain a character’s specific abilities or characteristics.

GENEERED CHIMERA
combine aspects of two or more distinct species. Genetic engineers combine genetic features from existing species (not necessarily both sophonts) to create a new organism.

The hypothetical question is raised in passing in the genetics section as to whether or not the Vargr were geneered by the Ancients as human/wolf Chimera.

ARE VARGR CHIMERAS?
The Vargr are an intelligent Major Race created by the Ancients through genetic manipulation of Terran carnivore/chasers at about the same time humans were scattered from Terra to the stars. Researchers have confirmed that Vargr are genetically derived from family Canidae and almost certainly genus Canis (that is, wolves or proto-dogs). The Unanswered Question: Did the Ancients so completely understand molecular biology that they simply wrote new genes to insert into Earth’s proto-dogs? Or, did those Ancient genetic engineers do what modern geneers do? Did they take the nearest available compatible genes for hands, and upright stance, and increased intelligence?

Are Vargr Human-Wolf chimeras?

 

[rancke]

The term "Chimera" is from the Hardback, and is referenced in the section on genetics. It specifically refers to an organism that has been genetically engineered from two or more different species, or which are inter-fertile. It is used as a synonym for "hybrid".

Yes, and as I point out, this is an incorrect use of the word by 21st Century usage.

'A chimera (also spelled chimaera) (from the creature Chimera in Greek mythology) is a single organism composed of genetically distinct cells.' [Wikipedia]​

(Link provided in my previous post).

I'm suggesting that while admittedly there is an available handwave (to wit, that by the Classic Era the term has changed to also refer to non-chimeric organisms), this is a bad idea and ought to be revised.

Thanks for the quotes, BTW..



Hans

 

[Frewfrux]

A search of this thread didn't reveal any errata for "waivers" so I'm going to suggest the following:

Page 39 of the rules state the following (emphasis added):

If Pre-Requisites are met, the character Applies for Admission. If successful, the character rolls for Pass/Fail for each year of the process. Pass awards one of the available skills; Failure terminates the process (but Waiver may result in reinstatement, although no skill is received). Finally, a character who Graduates (who Passes or who has Failure Waived) receives Graduation benefits.

However, the example given on page 41 has the character Eneri failing the check 3 times and each time successfully getting a waiver. That's followed by:

He selects his Major and Minor from any skill or knowledge marked C in the College column. He selects Psychology as a Major and (based on passing four years of College) receives Psychology-4. He selects Robotics as a Minor and receives Robotics-2.

If page 39 is right and there's no skill acquisition on a failed attempt, shouldn't Eneri only receive a single skill in his Major?

Is this errata, or am I missing something?

 

[agorski]

When writing my chargen app, I had to interpret this. Based on the Eneri example and Hemdian's education flowcharts (search the forums) I assumed that a successful waiver still awarded the skills. Don't remember now if anything else convinced me of this approach.

Note that each subsequent waiver attempt is harder than the previous one.

 

[Frewfrux]

When writing my chargen app, I had to interpret this.

Is that the generally accepted approach? If so, it should be in the errata as such.

Also, quick question, when you did your chargen app, how did you account for gaining languages in school? Normally you spend a skill level to get a language at one level less than your most recent one, but for schooling you can use you minor, spend two skill levels, and get one language at level 4. Seems a little off.

Also, along the same lines, if you get one language with your major at level 8, then get another in a regular career using a skill level, is it at level 7 (one level less than your last one) or level 6 (one level less than your native language)?

 

[agorski]

Also, quick question, when you did your chargen app, how did you account for gaining languages in school? Normally you spend a skill level to get a language at one level less than your most recent one, but for schooling you can use you minor, spend two skill levels, and get one language at level 4. Seems a little off.

I don't allow picking a language for both major and minor. I just created a character right now in my app that started with Anglic-8. Entered University with major Language(Vilani) and minor Author. Graduated with honors and got Vilani-10 and Author-2.

Also, along the same lines, if you get one language with your major at level 8, then get another in a regular career using a skill level, is it at level 7 (one level less than your last one) or level 6 (one level less than your native language)?

Continued the same character in Agent career and had the opportunity to get another language. Picked Gvegh and got Gvegh-7, one less than native language.

I don't remember now how I got to this logic, but that's what I ended up with.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Also, along the same lines, if you get one language with your major at level 8, then get another in a regular career using a skill level, is it at level 7 (one level less than your last one) or level 6 (one level less than your native language)?

Additional Languages (other than through Education). When Language is received (other than in Education), the individual selects a specific foreign language other than his or her native language. The first receipt of Language is at one level less than the character’s Native Language. Each additional receipt of Language allows selection of another language at one level less than the previous.

I would give 6, one less than native. Languages gained in Education do not count for this system.

 

[Frewfrux]

...and got Vilani-10...

Continued the same character in Agent career...and got Gvegh-7, one less than native language.

I would give 6, one less than native. Languages gained in Education do not count for this system.

Thanks everyone. Sounds good.

 

[tjoneslo]

Under How Maneuver Works, the description of getting to and from orbit make widly no sense. Since all of the drive systems (except perhaps the rocket drive) can maintain thrust for long periods of time.

These rules assume your ship has a drive rating greater than the planetary gravity. This is only a problem for world sizes 8+ and a ship with a 1G drive, no lifters, wings or lifting body.

Take off procedure is :

• accelerate at 0.1G for world size minutes. This gets you out of the atmosphere
• accelerate at 0.5G for 1/2 world size minutes. This gets you to the orbital height (S=3 / R = 8 / 500 km)
• accelerate at 1G for world size minutes. This gets you to orbital velocity.

Reverse this process to land.

This keeps the in-atmosphere speeds to under 1000kph (sonic speeds), and does't cause heating or other problems with the ship.

 

[mhwittek]

Hello All,.
If this is not the correct forum to ask, I do apologize. I am looking for a consolidated PDF or DOC file with all the errata for Traveller v5.10. I know it is an on going project of COTI. Where can I find the consolidated file?
--

 

[tjoneslo]

There is no consolidated file of errata for Traveller 5.10. There only list of potential issues (and some recommended fixes) is the message in this thread. It would be a good project for someone.