Task Resolution

[Melkor]

Hi folks,

I know that the original method of task resolution in Traveller varied greatly depending on the skill being used - My question is: What about instances where a skill wasn't used ?

How do you guys handle something that might be based on an characteristic but not a skill ?

What about something that 'might' be a skill, but not one covered in Classic Traveller (like Climbing for instance) ?

Thanks!

 

[Melkor]

Hi folks,

I know that the original method of task resolution in Traveller varied greatly depending on the skill being used - My question is: What about instances where a skill wasn't used ?

How do you guys handle something that might be based on an characteristic but not a skill ?

What about something that 'might' be a skill, but not one covered in Classic Traveller (like Climbing for instance) ?

Thanks!

 

[mike wightman]

I'd usually ask for an attribute check.

Originally I'd get them to roll 2d to get less than their relevent characteristic, or 3d if the task was very difficult.

For something like climbing I'd use an average of all three physical characteristics.

Now I'd go with roll 2d to achieve a target number, 4 for easy, 8 for challenging, 12 for very difficult. Roll the 2d, for each physical stat that is equal to or less than the rolled number grant a +1 DM.

 

[mike wightman]

I'd usually ask for an attribute check.

Originally I'd get them to roll 2d to get less than their relevent characteristic, or 3d if the task was very difficult.

For something like climbing I'd use an average of all three physical characteristics.

Now I'd go with roll 2d to achieve a target number, 4 for easy, 8 for challenging, 12 for very difficult. Roll the 2d, for each physical stat that is equal to or less than the rolled number grant a +1 DM.

 

[Ranger]

I'd start by figuring out the base dificulty level of the task (based on my slight modification of the BITS task system):
http://www.bitsuk.net/Archive/GameAids/files/BITStask.pdf

then use two attributes (str + dex in this case) rather than skill + attribute like you normally would.

I use the following table for attribute modifiers:

1-2 -3
3-4 -2
5-6 -1
7 0
8-9 +1
A-C +2
D-F +3

So, based on what they are trying to climb (say an 8 foot high chain link fence) I'd say that's easy difficulty (target of 4) then apply the mods to the roll. You could also make other mods of course, like nighttime, weather, being rushed (chased?) just to mention a few.

Edit to add:

Failure might not mean they didn't make it over the fence either. It could also mean they fell off on the way back down (1d damage due to fall maybe?).

 

[Ranger]

I'd start by figuring out the base dificulty level of the task (based on my slight modification of the BITS task system):
http://www.bitsuk.net/Archive/GameAids/files/BITStask.pdf

then use two attributes (str + dex in this case) rather than skill + attribute like you normally would.

I use the following table for attribute modifiers:

1-2 -3
3-4 -2
5-6 -1
7 0
8-9 +1
A-C +2
D-F +3

So, based on what they are trying to climb (say an 8 foot high chain link fence) I'd say that's easy difficulty (target of 4) then apply the mods to the roll. You could also make other mods of course, like nighttime, weather, being rushed (chased?) just to mention a few.

Edit to add:

Failure might not mean they didn't make it over the fence either. It could also mean they fell off on the way back down (1d damage due to fall maybe?).

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Melkor:
Hi folks,

How do you guys handle something that might be based on an characteristic but not a skill ?

Check out the section in many official CT publications called "Die Roll Conventions".

For example, on page 28 of The Traveller Adventure, check out the section titled "The Uses of Die Rolls".

That should answer your question.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Melkor:
Hi folks,

How do you guys handle something that might be based on an characteristic but not a skill ?

Check out the section in many official CT publications called "Die Roll Conventions".

For example, on page 28 of The Traveller Adventure, check out the section titled "The Uses of Die Rolls".

That should answer your question.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I'd usually ask for an attribute check.

Originally I'd get them to roll 2d to get less than their relevent characteristic, or 3d if the task was very difficult.

I do this A LOT in my games. When tasks are based on a character's expertise (skill), I use the UGM. When tasks are based more on a character's natural ability (stats), I use these types of standard CT attribute checks.

I mix it up, too, depending on the situation. Sometimes I'll use varying number of dice, as Sig mentions above. Sometimes, I'll put a modifier on the roll. Sometimes, I'll specify "that you have to roll at least 5 points lower than your stat" or some such stipulation.

Sometimes I'll average things: three dudes, averaging each STR characteristic, and roll that number or less on 2D to pick up the ground car engine and duck walk it into the hut.

Sometimes, I'll say something like, "For every two points that you roll your stat or lower, an indication is made of the general quality of your roll....so for a STR-7, a roll of 5 or 3 indicates better quality result rather than any other success."

Stuff like that.

CT doesn't pin a GM down to a specific set of possibilities, and I really like that--the flexibility the GM uses in governing the wildly different situations that come up in a game.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I'd usually ask for an attribute check.

Originally I'd get them to roll 2d to get less than their relevent characteristic, or 3d if the task was very difficult.

I do this A LOT in my games. When tasks are based on a character's expertise (skill), I use the UGM. When tasks are based more on a character's natural ability (stats), I use these types of standard CT attribute checks.

I mix it up, too, depending on the situation. Sometimes I'll use varying number of dice, as Sig mentions above. Sometimes, I'll put a modifier on the roll. Sometimes, I'll specify "that you have to roll at least 5 points lower than your stat" or some such stipulation.

Sometimes I'll average things: three dudes, averaging each STR characteristic, and roll that number or less on 2D to pick up the ground car engine and duck walk it into the hut.

Sometimes, I'll say something like, "For every two points that you roll your stat or lower, an indication is made of the general quality of your roll....so for a STR-7, a roll of 5 or 3 indicates better quality result rather than any other success."

Stuff like that.

CT doesn't pin a GM down to a specific set of possibilities, and I really like that--the flexibility the GM uses in governing the wildly different situations that come up in a game.

 

[mike wightman]

Does it hurt a game to have more than one resolution mechanic, within reason?

It is much easier to do attribute checks on 2d or 36 than to mess around with target numbers and DMs.

I think I may try going bcak to it for a while, it'll probably play a lot faster.
Trouble is it means rolling high for skills and combat, while rolling low for attribute checks.
I wonder if it will bother my players at all?

 

[mike wightman]

Does it hurt a game to have more than one resolution mechanic, within reason?

It is much easier to do attribute checks on 2d or 36 than to mess around with target numbers and DMs.

I think I may try going bcak to it for a while, it'll probably play a lot faster.
Trouble is it means rolling high for skills and combat, while rolling low for attribute checks.
I wonder if it will bother my players at all?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Does it hurt a game to have more than one resolution mechanic, within reason?

It is much easier to do attribute checks on 2d or 36 than to mess around with target numbers and DMs.

This may surprise you, since I'm the "UGM guy", but I really do use attribute checks all the time (there are even attribute checks included in the UGM...in the natural ability check...in the check for critical success for critical failure...)

In the "official" write up pdf of the UGM (whenever that will be completed, I don't know--it's part of a bigger project expanding Book 1 that I may release one day), I mention that there are two types of mechanics used: one for skill based tasks and one for attribute based tasks.

The skill based, is of course, the UGM. The stat based is a standard "roll stat or lower" method.

The GM decides what is more appropropriate for the situation.

If a character is walking into an ancient tomb, and the GM knows there's an alien spider clinging to the ceiling, ready to pounce on the PC's, the GM could call for a "perception check" of 2D for INT or lower for any of the PCs to notice the spider on the ceiling before it attacks.

But, once the PCs are in the tomb, they notice an ancient machine--maybe a computer...and as the PCs are trying to puzzle out how to operate the machine, the GM calls for a INT based UGM Computer task roll.

Noticing the spider on the ceiling is less a trained action and more of a function of the character's natural "perception", so the GM chose an attribute check.

But, with the ancient computer, this is more of a skill-based task, where a character's computer expertise is paramount in figuring the thing out. So, it's a UGM roll.

In my campaign, I swing back and forth between the UGM task system and standard CT attribute checks all the time--typically during every game.

It just depends on what is most appropriate for the situation.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Does it hurt a game to have more than one resolution mechanic, within reason?

It is much easier to do attribute checks on 2d or 36 than to mess around with target numbers and DMs.

This may surprise you, since I'm the "UGM guy", but I really do use attribute checks all the time (there are even attribute checks included in the UGM...in the natural ability check...in the check for critical success for critical failure...)

In the "official" write up pdf of the UGM (whenever that will be completed, I don't know--it's part of a bigger project expanding Book 1 that I may release one day), I mention that there are two types of mechanics used: one for skill based tasks and one for attribute based tasks.

The skill based, is of course, the UGM. The stat based is a standard "roll stat or lower" method.

The GM decides what is more appropropriate for the situation.

If a character is walking into an ancient tomb, and the GM knows there's an alien spider clinging to the ceiling, ready to pounce on the PC's, the GM could call for a "perception check" of 2D for INT or lower for any of the PCs to notice the spider on the ceiling before it attacks.

But, once the PCs are in the tomb, they notice an ancient machine--maybe a computer...and as the PCs are trying to puzzle out how to operate the machine, the GM calls for a INT based UGM Computer task roll.

Noticing the spider on the ceiling is less a trained action and more of a function of the character's natural "perception", so the GM chose an attribute check.

But, with the ancient computer, this is more of a skill-based task, where a character's computer expertise is paramount in figuring the thing out. So, it's a UGM roll.

In my campaign, I swing back and forth between the UGM task system and standard CT attribute checks all the time--typically during every game.

It just depends on what is most appropriate for the situation.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
I mix it up, too, depending on the situation. Sometimes I'll use varying number of dice, as Sig mentions above. Sometimes, I'll put a modifier on the roll. Sometimes, I'll specify "that you have to roll at least 5 points lower than your stat" or some such stipulation.

Here's a real example from my upcoming game next week.

The situation: A character will be awaking from a long-term cold berth. When he gets out, he sees there's a tube--probably a feeding tube--surgically implanted in his stomach, connected to the crib.

There's a lot more to this situation, but in order to not bore you with the details, let's just say the character will want to get up and out of the cold crib as fast as possible.

So, he'll need to disconnect from the crib somehow. He can just pull the tube out of his gut, ripping whatever, and be bleeding. He can cut the tube and have it sticking out of his gut, to deal with it later.

Since the character won't have any tools available, and he's awaking in this cold cribe completely naked (and completely hairless--but that's more of the details that are not pertinent to this example), he'll have to make do with just his hands.

As GM, I had to pre-figure this roll. I know it will be a problem for the PC when he wakes up.

I decided to go with an attribute check instead of a UGM task roll in this situation because, although medical skill may help, this is really more of a situation (disconnecting the tube without damaging himself) where natural ability is at play.

I've decided to make this a STR check. I'm thinking the character will probably try to grip the tube and rip it from it's socket in the crib--dealing with the surgical implantation sticking out of his gut at a later time.

If the character has Medical skill, I'll allow that as an increase to STR (STR + Medical), making the target higher (and therefore easier to roll less than).

But, here's the kicker stipulation: If the check fails (roll is higher than modified STR), damage to the character is equal to the difference.

So, with a STR-7 Medical-1 character, the check is 2D for 8 or less. If the throw is 11, for example, the character tugs on the tube, it doesn't dislodge from the crip, AND the character damages himself internally to the tune of 3 points of damage.

As I was writing my post above, I thought of this roll I had just created for my game, and I thought it a good example of how I'll throw in some stipulations based on the situation I'm governing.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
I mix it up, too, depending on the situation. Sometimes I'll use varying number of dice, as Sig mentions above. Sometimes, I'll put a modifier on the roll. Sometimes, I'll specify "that you have to roll at least 5 points lower than your stat" or some such stipulation.

Here's a real example from my upcoming game next week.

The situation: A character will be awaking from a long-term cold berth. When he gets out, he sees there's a tube--probably a feeding tube--surgically implanted in his stomach, connected to the crib.

There's a lot more to this situation, but in order to not bore you with the details, let's just say the character will want to get up and out of the cold crib as fast as possible.

So, he'll need to disconnect from the crib somehow. He can just pull the tube out of his gut, ripping whatever, and be bleeding. He can cut the tube and have it sticking out of his gut, to deal with it later.

Since the character won't have any tools available, and he's awaking in this cold cribe completely naked (and completely hairless--but that's more of the details that are not pertinent to this example), he'll have to make do with just his hands.

As GM, I had to pre-figure this roll. I know it will be a problem for the PC when he wakes up.

I decided to go with an attribute check instead of a UGM task roll in this situation because, although medical skill may help, this is really more of a situation (disconnecting the tube without damaging himself) where natural ability is at play.

I've decided to make this a STR check. I'm thinking the character will probably try to grip the tube and rip it from it's socket in the crib--dealing with the surgical implantation sticking out of his gut at a later time.

If the character has Medical skill, I'll allow that as an increase to STR (STR + Medical), making the target higher (and therefore easier to roll less than).

But, here's the kicker stipulation: If the check fails (roll is higher than modified STR), damage to the character is equal to the difference.

So, with a STR-7 Medical-1 character, the check is 2D for 8 or less. If the throw is 11, for example, the character tugs on the tube, it doesn't dislodge from the crip, AND the character damages himself internally to the tune of 3 points of damage.

As I was writing my post above, I thought of this roll I had just created for my game, and I thought it a good example of how I'll throw in some stipulations based on the situation I'm governing.

 

[Ranger]

Well, I think the issue of if a game can have more than one system comes down to how you manage those systems. The issue with attribute checks vs. "task" resolution in CT is that in one you have to roll low to be successful, and in the other you have to roll high. As a general game design principle, it's best to pick one direction or the other and use it consistently in the game system.

It really doesn't matter if the players and the GM have no problem with it, but it is easier for new players learning a game system if they just have to remember roll high or roll low.

 

[Ranger]

Well, I think the issue of if a game can have more than one system comes down to how you manage those systems. The issue with attribute checks vs. "task" resolution in CT is that in one you have to roll low to be successful, and in the other you have to roll high. As a general game design principle, it's best to pick one direction or the other and use it consistently in the game system.

It really doesn't matter if the players and the GM have no problem with it, but it is easier for new players learning a game system if they just have to remember roll high or roll low.

 

[mike wightman]

Rolling less than the characteristic on 2d or 3d depending on difficulty is a pretty elegent mechanic, and its fast during the game.

I can see how the T4 system grew from it, but that favours attributes over skills too much IMHO.

 

[mike wightman]

Rolling less than the characteristic on 2d or 3d depending on difficulty is a pretty elegent mechanic, and its fast during the game.

I can see how the T4 system grew from it, but that favours attributes over skills too much IMHO.