Technology Level Chronology

[MThompson016]

On a couple of Traveller Facebook groups, it's been asked about when the Imperium was at what Technology Level. From a couple of sources, here's what I have:

I've seen the question "What year was tech level X first reached?" come around a few times in various discussions online for Traveller. Here's my research on it for Imperial Society:

• TL 11, defined as J2, was first achieved during the 1st Imperium. 909 BCE (c. -5422 Imperial) is given in GURPS Traveller on page 47 in the side bar. This may have been the maximum technology level during the Long Night for production purposes.

• TL 12, defined as J3 and Meson weapons, was developed by the Terrans around -2284, and deployed within a decade. The Terran Confederation and the Rule of Man are not known to have exceeded this technological development. However, an out of the way lab could have made some TL 13 prototypes...

• TL 13 was developed before 624, when the Xboat system was first established. So it roughly corresponds to the Imperial Civil War era.

• TL 14 was matured by the late 900's, when the J-5 capable Azhanti High Lightning class Fleet Intruders were produced.

• TL 15 breakthroughs were made following the Rim War from 990 to 1002. It is specifically noted the demands of the Rim War led the Imperium to make the breakthroughs required for TL 15.

I have excluded the Darrians, as they mess it all up and their discoveries were not widespread. I have the suspicion much of their work was more theoretical than anything. I heavily relied upon the Library Data in GURPS Traveller, and the history section in Rim of Fire, as well as Mongoose Traveller 1e Core Book to give the dates and defining the technology levels.

Link to my posting: http://travellersandbox.blogspot.com/2016/08/tech-levels-and-year.html

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

the first non Ancient-derived Jump drive (and by extenstion, TL9/10) was by the vlani in -9235 (by the wiki, but it lists J2 as -5430, so they might be counting slightly differently), so that's another date for your books.

reference given is GURPS interstellar wars.

 

[mike wightman]

You should have looked up MegaTraveller, in the Referee's Companion you will find the actual dates.

- 1776..TL10 Syleans maintain minimal interstellar trade
- 650....TL11 Sylean Federation established
- 150....TL12 Robot manufacturing reestablished
300......TL13 Vargr Campaigns taking place (210-348)
700......TL14 Xboat system being built (624-718)
1000....TL15 Solomani Rim War taking place (998-1002)

 

[MThompson016]

You should have looked up MegaTraveller, in the Referee's Companion you will find the actual dates.

Ohh, wish I had those books. I've got some used Classic stuff, but otherwise, everything I have is from the last 16 years.

 

[mike wightman]

Also:
the Vilani sometimes encountered worlds that were well above Vlands TL - these worlds all lacked the jump drive though. So after careful study and archiving of their technology the Vilani would sterilize these worlds, jump a few ships into the oort cloud and send a few comets inbound, then follow up with some smaller rocks and nukes.
The secrets were locked away and the Vilani artificially and deliberately stagnated their TL to 11 - suppressing technological breakthroughs and withholding the secrets.

Terrans during the ISW era were able to rapidly advance from TL9 to TL11 through a combination of reverse engineering, purchasing of advanced tech, and outright theft.

It is my belief that at some point Terran agents found out about Vilani knowledge repositories and raided them and from these archives made the rapid advance to TL12
(ask yourself what the key TL12 technologies the Vilani were so afraid of and you will start to understand why they deliberately stagnated).

During the ROM there is evidence from T4 that r&d up to TL14 was being conducted.

During the long night individual worlds may have gone all the way to TL16 or higher, before encountering issued such as the Darrians...

 

[mike wightman]

Ohh, wish I had those books. I've got some used Classic stuff, but otherwise, everything I have is from the last 16 years.

If you are interested in completing your knowledge of Traveller then I would recommend getting the MT cd rom from FFE.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

Also:
the Vilani sometimes encountered worlds that were well above Vlands TL - these worlds all lacked the jump drive though. So after careful study and archiving of their technology the Vilani would sterilize these worlds, jump a few ships into the oort cloud and send a few comets inbound, then follow up with some smaller rocks and nukes.
The secrets were locked away and the Vilani artificially and deliberately stagnated their TL to 11 - suppressing technological breakthroughs and withholding the secrets.

Terrans during the ISW era were able to rapidly advance from TL9 to TL11 through a combination of reverse engineering, purchasing of advanced tech, and outright theft.

It is my belief that at some point Terran agents found out about Vilani knowledge repositories and raided them and from these archives made the rapid advance to TL12
(ask yourself what the key TL12 technologies the Vilani were so afraid of and you will start to understand why they deliberately stagnated).

During the ROM there is evidence from T4 that r&d up to TL14 was being conducted.

During the long night individual worlds may have gone all the way to TL16 or higher, before encountering issued such as the Darrians...

where is that referenced? ive not heard of that before, and seen quite a few referances that say vlani were the most advanced polity of their time.

 

[mike wightman]

It's pieced together from canon - especially the timeline for Vilani exploration, colonisation, conquest and later consolidation wars - and what is written in Marc's novel about the secret Vilani archives of forbidden technology.

The Vilani were the only race with a jump drive during their rise to empire - but they were not the most technologically advanced.

The Terran rapid rise from TL9 to TL12 is my conjecture but it fits the known facts.

 

[whulorigan]

The Vilani were the only race with a jump drive during their rise to empire - but they were not the most technologically advanced.

Actually the Geonee also had the Jump Drive independent of (and slightly before) the Vilani, but they acquired it thru reverse-engineering of remnants of Ancient-relic technology.

Of course the Vilani and Geonee entered into conflict shortly after contact and were subsequently absorbed by the Ziru Sirka . . .

 

[mike wightman]

By the time the Vilani encountered the Geonee they already had a sizable sphere of colonies and were still open to developing new technology.
The Geonee were not much of a threat to the Vilani or conflict would have erupted long before the Vilani made the breakthrough to TL11 and jump 2 technology.

While the Geonee may have had a jump drive reverse engineered from relic tech they appear to be a lot less developed than the Vilani of the era. Hence not a threat but worth dominating via trade.

A thousand or so years later when the Vilani launched their consolidation wars to establish the Ziru Sirka they were a lot more advanced than the Geonee.
They also explored further than the Geonee and encountered alien races of a range of TLs, including some higher than themselves (Marc's novel) and it is this tech they hid away.
Their leaders also decided to cap their TL...

 

[Nathan Brazil]

It's pieced together from canon - especially the timeline for Vilani exploration, colonisation, conquest and later consolidation wars - and what is written in Marc's novel about the secret Vilani archives of forbidden technology.

The Vilani were the only race with a jump drive during their rise to empire - but they were not the most technologically advanced.

The Terran rapid rise from TL9 to TL12 is my conjecture but it fits the known facts.

How about non-conjecture?

GURPS Traveller - Interstellar Wars pg 130
TL9 before 2128 AD
TL10 from 2128 AD to 2235 AD,
TL11 after 2235 AD

are the Terran Tech Levels until "history ends" 2303AD (pg 40). The Vilani are TL 10 throughout the Interstellar Wars period.

Converting T5 (or most other versions of Traveller)
TL 9-10 before -2393
TL11 from -2393 to -2286
TL12 after -2286
are the Terran Tech Levels until "history ends" -2218. The Vilani are TL 11 throughout the Interstellar Wars period. You may quibble about the exact year. GURPS specifically uses uses Anno Domini , I simply used IY0=4521AD and did as straight subtraction to get approx imperial dates.

Also there is no mention of alien tech involved in the breakthru of J3 or Meson Weapons. Just Terran ingenuity...

During the Eighth Interstellar War, Terran engineers made two critical breakthroughs in naval technology. The jump-3 drive had the potential to give Terran fleets unprecedented speed and mobility, while advances in particle-beam technology gave rise to the first meson-cannon weaponry. Neither of these technologies was even familiar to the Vilani or to any other known civilization – so the Imperium had no defense against their use on the battlefield.
The new innovations came too late to be used during the Eighth Interstellar War... pg 36

The Eighth Interstellar was 2228AD - 2238AD (pg 35)

 

[mike wightman]

You are getting GURPS TL scale and Traveller's TL scale mixed up.

GT ISW Vilani TL10 is Traveller TL11.

GT ISW late Terran TL11 is Traveller TL12.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

With regards to the extent that they suppressed knowledge of Jump-2 during the Consolidation is found in MgT Minor Alien Module 1: Luriani. The Luriani as a people and a culture were almost completely destroyed...

 

[mike wightman]

It took the Vilani thousands of years to go from TL9 to TL11, and that was when they were a dynamic, expansionist culture.
They then put the brakes on, deliberately, despite having an extensive database of higher TL possibilities. Something scared them off using said technology.

The Terrans were fighting for their lives and had no such qualms about developing the forbidden technology of meson guns, making the computer breakthroughs that open up jump 3 or however it is done. The crucial factor is that the Terrans began using AI (not artificial sentience but artificial intelligence - here we go again) much more than the Vilani dared because the Vilani were terrified of 'thinking machines' to borrow a term.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

You are getting GURPS TL scale and Traveller's TL scale mixed up.

GT ISW Vilani TL10 is Traveller TL11.

GT ISW late Terran TL11 is Traveller TL12.

While I forgot to
"Converting to T5 (or most other versions of Traveller)"
my post is otherwise correct as it stands. The first set is GURPS TL, the second the more usual UWP designations. Please reread.

 

[mike wightman]

With regards to the extent that they suppressed knowledge of Jump-2 during the Consolidation is found in MgT Minor Alien Module 1: Luriani. The Luriani as a people and a culture were almost completely destroyed...

TL11 is a stepping stone to TL 12 - you keep your subject races at TL10 and there is no problem.
The Luriani were a greater threat than the Geonee because they had the potential to go higher, the Geonee couldn't because all they did was copy.

 

[mike wightman]

Sorry I just don't buy into plucky Terran ingenuity when it has taken thousands of years for other cultures to achieve the same breakthroughs, and some - the Geonee - never managed it even with thousands of years to do so.

My explanation makes sense - Terrans being special snowflakes doesn't.

And I have the advantage of having read Marc's novel, when GT ISW was in playtest we didn't have that luxury.

 

[mike wightman]

While I forgot to
"Converting to T5 (or most other versions of Traveller)"
my post is otherwise correct as it stands. The first set is GURPS TL, the second the more usual UWP designations. Please reread.

Sorry, yes the latter is correct. I apologise if I have caused any offence, it is never my intention to do so.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

It took the Vilani thousands of years to go from TL9 to TL11, and that was when they were a dynamic, expansionist culture.
They then put the brakes on, deliberately, despite having an extensive database of higher TL possibilities. Something scared them off using said technology

The Agent of the Imperium novel specifically mentions the Ancient war machines existence as being a play:

His classic Minus Seven explores Disappointment as experienced
by an ambitious central character interacting with a series of counterpoint situations. I have seen it staged against:
The Vilani Transitional Era, as Shugina struggles against the last functional Ancient battle machines. pg 13-133

The Ancients' war machines must be public knowledge or public myth if plays are made about them.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Sorry I just don't buy into plucky Terran ingenuity when it has taken thousands of years for other cultures to achieve the same breakthroughs, and some - the Geonee - never managed it even with thousands of years to do so.

My explanation makes sense - Terrans being special snowflakes doesn't.

But Terrans ARE "special snowflakes". The rules now even support it.

The Favored Society Effect of Paradigm Shifts
A very few (one in a thousand) societies independently make a paradigm shift at the proper time and discover one of the crucial technological advances. These favored, fortunate societies gain in two ways: they have an important technological principle that gives them power over their less fortunate neighbors, and the discovery imparts to their collective self-image a level of confidence or self-esteem that places them in a dominant position in interstellar society.
For example, the discovery of Jump Drive by the Vilani (at a time when all of its neighbors were using NAFAL Not-As-Fast-As-Light drives) gave them a technological advantage and reinforced their own self-image as the natural rulers of interstellar space. They used their discovery to found an empire that lasted thousands of years. TRAVELLER 5 Core Rules v5.09 pg 500.

The three known paradigm shifts are
Jump- Efficient Travel Beyond the Home System.
Fusion Plus- Efficient Portable Power Generation.
Reality Manipulation- Revision of event flow