And creepier!
If their biotech is as good as you suggest--and it might be-- why haven't they just fixed the sex imbalance?
This gets back to your questions about why the female domination of males was maintained for centuries after the revolution.
The Asura
- Thread starter gchuck
- Start date
And creepier!
If their biotech is as good as you suggest--and it might be-- why haven't they just fixed the sex imbalance?
This gets back to your questions about why the female domination of males was maintained for centuries after the revolution.
I know, op just wanted to share his new race and I had to over think it.
Wow!
This started out as a way to have 'blue' people in my game, and exists only in my head.
I think I might have a paragraph actually written down for the sake of the player.
While I am rather pleased with the 'history' I've written, I have NOT put any effort into the societal effects that history may have created.
You guys are gonna make me work for this! Aren't you? Challenge accepted!
The society is skewed toward female dominance on Asura.(Still not ready to fix a location until this is fleshed out a bit more) I think I mentioned an empire? Total of three star systems, with only Asura being 'blue'.
The other two systems, while being nominally independent, have accepted/requested oversight by the Empress. Lots of trade and intermarriage here.
As far as Asurans and pink skins cohabiting, I would think that environmental adaptability would lessen the comfort shock over time.
You guys are really making me think!
I'll have to think about this for a bit longer, and see what I can come up with.
This started out as a way to have 'blue' people in my game, and exists only in my head.
I think I might have a paragraph actually written down for the sake of the player.
While I am rather pleased with the 'history' I've written, I have NOT put any effort into the societal effects that history may have created.
You guys are gonna make me work for this! Aren't you? Challenge accepted!
The society is skewed toward female dominance on Asura.(Still not ready to fix a location until this is fleshed out a bit more) I think I mentioned an empire? Total of three star systems, with only Asura being 'blue'.
The other two systems, while being nominally independent, have accepted/requested oversight by the Empress. Lots of trade and intermarriage here.
As far as Asurans and pink skins cohabiting, I would think that environmental adaptability would lessen the comfort shock over time.
You guys are really making me think!
I'll have to think about this for a bit longer, and see what I can come up with.
A good asuran security official for the pcs to meet would be a blue version of the replicant Luv from Blade Runner 2049.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viLod_tzRZg
Search youtube for
Blade runner 2049 - Luv confronts joshi scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viLod_tzRZg
Search youtube for
Blade runner 2049 - Luv confronts joshi scene
The trick is to make interacting with the social idiosyncrasies of the society a meaningful requirement to accomplishing whatever the players are there to do.
If it's just role reversal from American 1950s and very friendly amazon spacer crews, players will go hardy har, complete their mission, have some astroburgers and forget about it. All the effort op put in turns into disposal window dressing.
It depends on the players he has, too. If they don't care about roleplaying a character, and getting in their characters heads, the pcs are effectively subclinical sociopaths who just don't care no matter what op does. Just give them a tactical exercise against generic opponents in gender neutral combat armor so they can get their sense of completion and enjoy their astroburgers after a good dopamine hit.
Again I refer you to Luv and Roy baty from bladerunner. IMO a lot pcs act just like them.
So, it's key to make interacting with the society on IT'S terms a requirement to accomplish the mission. Asuran military eliminates the violent options, asuran cultural sophistication eliminates any space foreigner mystique, and their pre visit medical exams reveal their genetics are so much random garbage of zero interest to the asurans. And, they get to wear visitor badges that say so. If they leave the starport, they get a mandatory injection that makes sure they won't be doing anything with anybody for the duration of their visit so no accidents happen.
Now they have to deal with the asurans on asuran terms. Not caring about the asuran way of doing things is no longer an option. They accomplish the mission by exploring the society instead of expending ammunition.
So, there needs to be enough of a society for them to explore.
What makes asuran society different? It it pretty much identical to imperium/solcon except with some discriminatory gender roles? There needs to more if it's not going to end up as window dressing.
If it's just role reversal from American 1950s and very friendly amazon spacer crews, players will go hardy har, complete their mission, have some astroburgers and forget about it. All the effort op put in turns into disposal window dressing.
It depends on the players he has, too. If they don't care about roleplaying a character, and getting in their characters heads, the pcs are effectively subclinical sociopaths who just don't care no matter what op does. Just give them a tactical exercise against generic opponents in gender neutral combat armor so they can get their sense of completion and enjoy their astroburgers after a good dopamine hit.
Again I refer you to Luv and Roy baty from bladerunner. IMO a lot pcs act just like them.
So, it's key to make interacting with the society on IT'S terms a requirement to accomplish the mission. Asuran military eliminates the violent options, asuran cultural sophistication eliminates any space foreigner mystique, and their pre visit medical exams reveal their genetics are so much random garbage of zero interest to the asurans. And, they get to wear visitor badges that say so. If they leave the starport, they get a mandatory injection that makes sure they won't be doing anything with anybody for the duration of their visit so no accidents happen.
Now they have to deal with the asurans on asuran terms. Not caring about the asuran way of doing things is no longer an option. They accomplish the mission by exploring the society instead of expending ammunition.
So, there needs to be enough of a society for them to explore.
What makes asuran society different? It it pretty much identical to imperium/solcon except with some discriminatory gender roles? There needs to more if it's not going to end up as window dressing.
Yeah, it depends on what he wants to do with the race. But I think he has a very nice concept and look. It can played for laughs or explored more deeply, with some grim and dark elements.
Further development may also facilitate making and playing Asura PCs.
Maybe a bit of game mechanics is in order?
I imagine their stats are the same as baseline humans except for a different range of temperature tolerance/resistance to cold injuries and susceptibility to heat injuries.
Are the services/careers modified at all?
What do the pocket empire's military forces look like?
For instance, if they have something equivalent to Marines, do these troops carry cutlasses just like Imperial Marines? Or something different?
Further development may also facilitate making and playing Asura PCs.
Maybe a bit of game mechanics is in order?
I imagine their stats are the same as baseline humans except for a different range of temperature tolerance/resistance to cold injuries and susceptibility to heat injuries.
Are the services/careers modified at all?
What do the pocket empire's military forces look like?
For instance, if they have something equivalent to Marines, do these troops carry cutlasses just like Imperial Marines? Or something different?
Hopefully something different. If they're pretty much blue cold weather matriarchal imperials, what's the point? Same economic system, same basic culture, same language, same political system, same default contemporary real life mindset, if all that's the same, what's the point of being blue?
One design decision I would have liked to see done differently is how imperials think of themselves as imperials instead of having a more planetary identity and culture. With the speed of info limited to the x boat network, I don't think there would be the media norm in effect and culture and language would diverge in a few centuries at the planetary level. The imperium would be remote, and people would be different, the way British and Australians are different, the way Texans and new yorkers are different. And that's just in a couple of centuries with mass media normalizing and cross pollenating language and ideas.
That's a lot of work, so a ref could have regional culture templates, or do some detailing when the pcs will be in a subsector for a while.
One design decision I would have liked to see done differently is how imperials think of themselves as imperials instead of having a more planetary identity and culture. With the speed of info limited to the x boat network, I don't think there would be the media norm in effect and culture and language would diverge in a few centuries at the planetary level. The imperium would be remote, and people would be different, the way British and Australians are different, the way Texans and new yorkers are different. And that's just in a couple of centuries with mass media normalizing and cross pollenating language and ideas.
That's a lot of work, so a ref could have regional culture templates, or do some detailing when the pcs will be in a subsector for a while.
Whoa!
:CoW:
The Imperium has a 'default contemporary real-life mindset'?
Are we sure about that? I mean, your Imperium might. It could just as easily be more like something out of Dune.
Though maybe you have read all that Megatraveller stuff I haven't seen and have a better understanding of the OTU. Quite possible.
If you mean that it is easy to treat the Imperium 'baseline' as being familiar to the players, sure.
You can note the differences and assume much of the rest is not too strange.
That approach could be interesting if you gamed with a group in Japan or Saudi Arabia and they did things the same way, only with their local culture as the 'contemporary default.'
About Imperial culture, I brought up that topic on the boards, ages ago. I'm with you. I don't think a single Imperial culture prevails across all the many worlds. I think every world has its own culture or cultures. Galanglic is the lingua franca.
But I do think it makes sense for the elite and service sub-cultures of the 31 to be heavily influenced by Sylea/Capital's culture, which in turn has been shaped by ancient Solomani military cultures and by the Vilani and the native Syleans.
Social status and titles of nobility are so important that this stuff goes in the UPP (as opposed to Party rank and status among Solomani).
Imperium versus Asura Empire
The political system doesn't seem the same. Isn't the Asura empire a constitutional monarchy? And it is only three worlds, right? This suggests a different structure than the sprawling Imperium.
The Imperium appears to be a 'feudal' federation/customs union with a navy.
I wouldn't call the sex roles and altered sexual psychology of the Asura 'same basic culture' as the Imperium. This is a big difference from every real human culture that has been documented, and I'd think it also differs a lot from most worlds of the Imperium. Other gynarchies may exist, but they probably look different.
Suggestions for further differentiation:
Consider making the language something different from Galanglic. That's an easy way to give them a little more distinctiveness. It works with the Sword Worlders and the Vilani, right?
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Probably won't change the language, since 'first' contact has already been made.
A little more thought has made me realize that the birth variance will probably stay the same, and that it is not as random as the Asurans might have other races believe!
How's that creepy feeling now?
The Asurans think of themselves as human. "We're just Blue."
The male 'roles' in the society are still a bit of a sticking point for me. Your suggestions are really making me think. Hard. I originally had them figured as house husbands and such, but now the Polyandry theory seems to have much more merit. Especially since I don't want to change male/female ratio. Probably gonna go that route.
The bio-tech is up to the task of making births a run of the mill occurrence. So 'random' DNA isn't so random. Traits, intelligence, and general physical health/appearance can be assured.
My campaign is mainly world building and role playing, so when the royal yacht landed and a couple of dozen very 'anxious' crew women began wandering around the starport and startown, chaos ensued. The two males on the ship just wanted to be left alone.
A little more thought has made me realize that the birth variance will probably stay the same, and that it is not as random as the Asurans might have other races believe!
How's that creepy feeling now?
The Asurans think of themselves as human. "We're just Blue."
The male 'roles' in the society are still a bit of a sticking point for me. Your suggestions are really making me think. Hard. I originally had them figured as house husbands and such, but now the Polyandry theory seems to have much more merit. Especially since I don't want to change male/female ratio. Probably gonna go that route.
The bio-tech is up to the task of making births a run of the mill occurrence. So 'random' DNA isn't so random. Traits, intelligence, and general physical health/appearance can be assured.
My campaign is mainly world building and role playing, so when the royal yacht landed and a couple of dozen very 'anxious' crew women began wandering around the starport and startown, chaos ensued. The two males on the ship just wanted to be left alone.
I said if it's the same what's the point of being blue, not that it is the same. I was encouraging op to make them different.
Role reversal. The roles are the same, only the gender of the role holders has changed. The new role holder acts the same as the old role holder. The novelty lasts 2 minutes and then what?
Monarchy with a constitution compared to absolute monarchy with a massive bureaucracy that runs things. How different is it really, and more importantly how do those differences change pc experience dealing with asurans?
Why polyandry when the ratio is so unbalanced? With 1 to 1 marriage, 75% of females have zero chance. Wit polyandry, multiple males married to 1 female, you're looking at 80 to 90% of women with no chance. Women would adapt to not having men in their lives. Why bother putting dumb males on ship crews when there's an extreme shortage of males on asura? Why hasn't asura imported males? Because they've chosen not to. So why marry them? What role would an additional husband serve? Status? 10% of asuran females are deviants who like men? Pets? Males go under the custody of a female caretaker who manages their lives so females can focus on raising their daughters?
Why would asuran females even have sons ever?
Anyway, re imperial culture, I'm sure. People have mentioned it before over the years, except they've called it Americans in space and so on. In ct and mt its in the background, except in some DGP material, but it's way worse in GURPS traveller. Astroburgers, man. Astroburgers. I don't have much exp with mgt. IMTU I work to make things very different. Traveller 1100 is more distant from us than ancient egypt and I try to make cultures just as foreign.
Role reversal. The roles are the same, only the gender of the role holders has changed. The new role holder acts the same as the old role holder. The novelty lasts 2 minutes and then what?
Monarchy with a constitution compared to absolute monarchy with a massive bureaucracy that runs things. How different is it really, and more importantly how do those differences change pc experience dealing with asurans?
Why polyandry when the ratio is so unbalanced? With 1 to 1 marriage, 75% of females have zero chance. Wit polyandry, multiple males married to 1 female, you're looking at 80 to 90% of women with no chance. Women would adapt to not having men in their lives. Why bother putting dumb males on ship crews when there's an extreme shortage of males on asura? Why hasn't asura imported males? Because they've chosen not to. So why marry them? What role would an additional husband serve? Status? 10% of asuran females are deviants who like men? Pets? Males go under the custody of a female caretaker who manages their lives so females can focus on raising their daughters?
Why would asuran females even have sons ever?
Anyway, re imperial culture, I'm sure. People have mentioned it before over the years, except they've called it Americans in space and so on. In ct and mt its in the background, except in some DGP material, but it's way worse in GURPS traveller. Astroburgers, man. Astroburgers. I don't have much exp with mgt. IMTU I work to make things very different. Traveller 1100 is more distant from us than ancient egypt and I try to make cultures just as foreign.
Why would the female crew members have any kind of tension if there are a couple of males on their ship? How difficult would it be for the matriarchal females to figure out a satisfactory social arrangement? With so few men in their society, it's probably normal or at least accepted for social arrangements to be exclusively female. How long have they been in jump anyway? They know they'll get all the attention they want once they hit startown, so why the rush? For everything they do, let then have a compelling reason.
Like, only the ruling elite gets husbands, so lowly ship crews seek out bittersweet partnerships to have what they'll never have on asura, even if only for a few days.
Like, only the ruling elite gets husbands, so lowly ship crews seek out bittersweet partnerships to have what they'll never have on asura, even if only for a few days.
Oh boy did I screw up!
I meant to say polygamy, not polyandry. (I'm at the end of 13 day stretch at work, and my brain is mush. I've had that word in my head for almost a week now!)
Regarding the Males on the Royal Yacht, one is the personal consort of the heir apparent(he was questioned by one of the PC's, and told her "I won the lottery!"), and the other is a religious acolyte, and not 'available' to the crew.
So Male#1 has spent a good deal of time thinking on what he wants. He's played the gigolo for a time, and decides he wants to settle down. A number of his female acquaintances have expressed admiration, and a willingness to enter into a marriage contract, noting his desirable traits.
Male#1 contracts a barrister to begin negotiations with the four females. Male#1 has decided that a single household is most advantageous to all parties. Female#3 is against a single household, and bows out.
The three remaining females, while not 'friends', are familiar with each other, and agree on the single household.
Child bearing, and their care is negotiated, noting that the male is the customary care giver for the children. Male#1 is perfectly happy to act as care giver.
Female#4 does not want to start a family right away because of professional concerns, but is still willing to enter into the contract.
Length of contract, finances, and domicile are all negotiated. etc, etc.
This works for me.
Comments, concerns, catcalls?
I meant to say polygamy, not polyandry. (I'm at the end of 13 day stretch at work, and my brain is mush. I've had that word in my head for almost a week now!)
Regarding the Males on the Royal Yacht, one is the personal consort of the heir apparent(he was questioned by one of the PC's, and told her "I won the lottery!"), and the other is a religious acolyte, and not 'available' to the crew.
So Male#1 has spent a good deal of time thinking on what he wants. He's played the gigolo for a time, and decides he wants to settle down. A number of his female acquaintances have expressed admiration, and a willingness to enter into a marriage contract, noting his desirable traits.
Male#1 contracts a barrister to begin negotiations with the four females. Male#1 has decided that a single household is most advantageous to all parties. Female#3 is against a single household, and bows out.
The three remaining females, while not 'friends', are familiar with each other, and agree on the single household.
Child bearing, and their care is negotiated, noting that the male is the customary care giver for the children. Male#1 is perfectly happy to act as care giver.
Female#4 does not want to start a family right away because of professional concerns, but is still willing to enter into the contract.
Length of contract, finances, and domicile are all negotiated. etc, etc.
This works for me.
Comments, concerns, catcalls?
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Lower status females(blue collar), and the like, would have the 'same' chances as any other. They might compete for second tier males, but, marriage laws require a minimum amount of mates, say three.
Also, the affluence of the respective parties is a factor, but marriages can be subsidized by the state. Single women can contract with an available male simply for genetic material for pregnancy, should they desire a child, and not be desirous of a formal marriage. Single parents abound.
Divorces would in all likely hood be non-existent, due to the potentially crippling contractual penalties that could arise.
Also, the affluence of the respective parties is a factor, but marriages can be subsidized by the state. Single women can contract with an available male simply for genetic material for pregnancy, should they desire a child, and not be desirous of a formal marriage. Single parents abound.
Divorces would in all likely hood be non-existent, due to the potentially crippling contractual penalties that could arise.
Some males could even make a profession out of tutoring / home schooling.
I think that divorce would be common and easy. People wouldn't enter into contracts which have dire consequences. Marriage would only happen if the contract is a good deal for the male, because if it isn't to his liking, there's probably plenty of offers. If there aren't offers, it wouldn't be too difficult for a male to find a girlfriend, say, by walking outside of his house.
Something to consider is since females acquire all the resources, how does that change their relationship to the males? Males have no objective value. Females aren't dependent on them in any way. Would females in a marriage with a male even care what he does as long has he takes care of his responsibilities? Other females aren't threats anymore, because the male is so superfluous. If a male pays attention to other females, who cares? If he disappears, the females will have to watch their kids and take care of their own house, oh no.
I think that divorce would be common and easy. People wouldn't enter into contracts which have dire consequences. Marriage would only happen if the contract is a good deal for the male, because if it isn't to his liking, there's probably plenty of offers. If there aren't offers, it wouldn't be too difficult for a male to find a girlfriend, say, by walking outside of his house.
Something to consider is since females acquire all the resources, how does that change their relationship to the males? Males have no objective value. Females aren't dependent on them in any way. Would females in a marriage with a male even care what he does as long has he takes care of his responsibilities? Other females aren't threats anymore, because the male is so superfluous. If a male pays attention to other females, who cares? If he disappears, the females will have to watch their kids and take care of their own house, oh no.
The OP's mention of single mother families being commonplace, especially in the lower classes, suggests to me some really serious societal, familial, and economic challenges.
If the society had a normal sex balance, I'd expect a lot of violent crime and gangs.
As it is, I expect to see many lower class women trapped in inter-generational poverty, disadvantaged compared with the privileged girls from more affluent polygamous households.
Bearing a son likely wins a woman the esteem and approval of her peers.
Extended families may mitigate a lot of the problems, but they can't make up for a lack of fathers and male role models in acculturation and early childhood learning.
Is adoption allowed?
Fostering?
A poor woman without a husband who bears a son might be able to get a lot of money by giving up her child to a family that wants a son.
A hard choice, but some women might need the money that badly.
Fosterage is another possibility. It could be a way for that lucky single mother of a son to establish ties with a family in a higher social class.
If the society had a normal sex balance, I'd expect a lot of violent crime and gangs.
As it is, I expect to see many lower class women trapped in inter-generational poverty, disadvantaged compared with the privileged girls from more affluent polygamous households.
Bearing a son likely wins a woman the esteem and approval of her peers.
Extended families may mitigate a lot of the problems, but they can't make up for a lack of fathers and male role models in acculturation and early childhood learning.
Is adoption allowed?
Fostering?
A poor woman without a husband who bears a son might be able to get a lot of money by giving up her child to a family that wants a son.
A hard choice, but some women might need the money that badly.
Fosterage is another possibility. It could be a way for that lucky single mother of a son to establish ties with a family in a higher social class.
Yep.
If he likes my idea about fosterage, this could mesh with that.
''It takes a man to make a man. Put your boy in my household school and I will train him up the right way. And when he's grown to manhood and contracts a marriage, he'll make sure his wives respect you like their own mother and take care of you in your old age."
That's the thing. Men aren't women. Women aren't men. Many similarities, but many differences.
The basic physiological, psychological, neurological differences in the two sexes will remain even if laws and societal expectations shift. Aspects of humanity shaped by millions of years of evolutionary strategies and pressures aren't just going to suddenly become irrelevant.
You've touched on some of this in your previous posts.
So if he's treating this one with deadly seriousness, it won't be a simple role reversal for comedic effect, but changes in a society faced with an imbalance at the fundamental level of its existence.
All that may more concern with realism than he's looking for, though, so I don't want to overdo the criticism.
I have zero problem with blue antifreeze-blood "man-eaters." That's fun! And this is a game. Fun=good.
It really depends on what one wants from a race.
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