The empire, too large?

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by far-trader:
IMO it's not the physical size of the Imperium that makes it too "big" but the whole mess of the IN that came following High Guard.

<snip>

As a small ship universe heretic I agree completely with your sentiments.

Spinal mounts, armour, screens, and bay weapons could all have been added to LBB2 scale ships without increasing the size of the ships to multikiloton monsters.

TNE managed it...

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by far-trader:
IMO it's not the physical size of the Imperium that makes it too "big" but the whole mess of the IN that came following High Guard.

<snip>

As a small ship universe heretic I agree completely with your sentiments.

Spinal mounts, armour, screens, and bay weapons could all have been added to LBB2 scale ships without increasing the size of the ships to multikiloton monsters.

TNE managed it...

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by daryen:
The Spinward Marches give a wonderful setup for a smaller Imperium. Actually, you can use any setup like:
<snip>

Some excellent ideas here daryen.

I hope you don't mind but I've quoted it on another thread - with some extra ideas for modifying the Spinward Marches set up for a proto-CT based game.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by daryen:
The Spinward Marches give a wonderful setup for a smaller Imperium. Actually, you can use any setup like:
<snip>

Some excellent ideas here daryen.

I hope you don't mind but I've quoted it on another thread - with some extra ideas for modifying the Spinward Marches set up for a proto-CT based game.

 

[Jeffr0]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:

Spinal mounts, armour, screens, and bay weapons could all have been added to LBB2 scale ships without increasing the size of the ships to multikiloton monsters.

I'm sure Ken Pick wrote an article on this for Freelance Traveller.

I can't find it, though! ARGH!

 

[Jeffr0]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:

Spinal mounts, armour, screens, and bay weapons could all have been added to LBB2 scale ships without increasing the size of the ships to multikiloton monsters.

I'm sure Ken Pick wrote an article on this for Freelance Traveller.

I can't find it, though! ARGH!

 

[mike wightman]

Do you mean this one?

 

[mike wightman]

Do you mean this one?

 

[Jeffr0]

Thanks, Sigg!


I vote too large.

Though Asimov's Galactic Empire is technically bigger, I've never had a problem grasping the mileau.

There's something about the OTU... the more I read about it, the less I grasp. Add this to systems spawned by the "monster-game carcinoma," and I'm even more lost.

CT+ with the Proto-CT Universe is what I've been looking for. No need to bang my head against the wall anymore...

 

[Jeffr0]

Thanks, Sigg!


I vote too large.

Though Asimov's Galactic Empire is technically bigger, I've never had a problem grasping the mileau.

There's something about the OTU... the more I read about it, the less I grasp. Add this to systems spawned by the "monster-game carcinoma," and I'm even more lost.

CT+ with the Proto-CT Universe is what I've been looking for. No need to bang my head against the wall anymore...

 

[Flynn]

What kind of mechanics or assumptions would you use to limit the size of an empire?

Would you artificially just say, "Hey, it can't be larger than a sector?"

Or would you limit it such that the distance from core to border would never exceed six months of travel time for the round trip? That's about a nine jump radius (or 18 jump diameter), multiplied by the number of parsecs derived from the empire's average starship TL. Assuming a civilian average of Jump-2, that's an empire about 36 parsecs across, or roughly a sector in size.

Or would you just limit it to three or four parsecs from the nearest Class-A or Class-B starport with an adequate TL (9+, for interstellar travel) and a sufficient population (Pop 7+ to avoid the Ni trade classification) that can support offworld colonization, and let the chips fall where they may?

There's a number of different ways to look at this problem for the ref looking to develop their own ATU.

What do you suggest?

-Flynn

 

[Flynn]

What kind of mechanics or assumptions would you use to limit the size of an empire?

Would you artificially just say, "Hey, it can't be larger than a sector?"

Or would you limit it such that the distance from core to border would never exceed six months of travel time for the round trip? That's about a nine jump radius (or 18 jump diameter), multiplied by the number of parsecs derived from the empire's average starship TL. Assuming a civilian average of Jump-2, that's an empire about 36 parsecs across, or roughly a sector in size.

Or would you just limit it to three or four parsecs from the nearest Class-A or Class-B starport with an adequate TL (9+, for interstellar travel) and a sufficient population (Pop 7+ to avoid the Ni trade classification) that can support offworld colonization, and let the chips fall where they may?

There's a number of different ways to look at this problem for the ref looking to develop their own ATU.

What do you suggest?

-Flynn

 

[Jeffr0]

Turning the question around...

is there a reason that the OTU limits empires to the 4-5 sector size?

Why isn't the Imperium (or someone else) a galaxy wide thing yet? Isn't it odd that there's 5 of these empires tucked away over in this corner like this?

[Psychohistory Alert!]

 

[Jeffr0]

Turning the question around...

is there a reason that the OTU limits empires to the 4-5 sector size?

Why isn't the Imperium (or someone else) a galaxy wide thing yet? Isn't it odd that there's 5 of these empires tucked away over in this corner like this?

[Psychohistory Alert!]

 

[mike wightman]

Flynn, that's an interesting question, and an interesting thought experiment.

Say you start with one high pop world at TL9 with a type A starport (Earth circa 2100AD ). There are no alien races out there, just empty worlds (ok they may have non-sentient lifeforms) ready for exploitaion and colonization.

How do you go about exploring, exploiting, and then colonizing?
How long does it take to build a new type A starport further from home to extend your range?
How far from home do you build them?
How do you populate all the planets you discover? How quickly does industrialisation take?
How long to asvance in TL?
What happens when colonies start to demand independence?

It may deserve its own thread.

 

[mike wightman]

Flynn, that's an interesting question, and an interesting thought experiment.

Say you start with one high pop world at TL9 with a type A starport (Earth circa 2100AD ). There are no alien races out there, just empty worlds (ok they may have non-sentient lifeforms) ready for exploitaion and colonization.

How do you go about exploring, exploiting, and then colonizing?
How long does it take to build a new type A starport further from home to extend your range?
How far from home do you build them?
How do you populate all the planets you discover? How quickly does industrialisation take?
How long to asvance in TL?
What happens when colonies start to demand independence?

It may deserve its own thread.

 

[mike wightman]

By the way, I don't think that any of the Imperium incarnations developed due to colonization in the main

IIRC they all grew by annexing/conquering/allying with minor races and pocket empire/client states, and then filling in the gaps

 

[mike wightman]

By the way, I don't think that any of the Imperium incarnations developed due to colonization in the main

IIRC they all grew by annexing/conquering/allying with minor races and pocket empire/client states, and then filling in the gaps

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
How do you go about exploring, exploiting, and then colonizing?
...

The answer to this and your following questions depends on a prior question: Are you alone?

If you are by yourself, it will be a fairly slow process, because to rush to any real degree is just a waste of money. Sure, there will be internal competition (between either nations or corporations) that will help lend urgency, but for the most part the process will be slow.

If, however, you are not alone, then the pace picks up tremendously. Now there is external competition, and the stakes are much, much higher. At this point, cost is pretty much no object, and you will see amazing things done in incredibly short time frames.

Internal competition determines which nation wins. External competition determines which species wins. Win the internal competition, and you get to name the planets. Win the external competition, and you get to survive.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
How do you go about exploring, exploiting, and then colonizing?
...

The answer to this and your following questions depends on a prior question: Are you alone?

If you are by yourself, it will be a fairly slow process, because to rush to any real degree is just a waste of money. Sure, there will be internal competition (between either nations or corporations) that will help lend urgency, but for the most part the process will be slow.

If, however, you are not alone, then the pace picks up tremendously. Now there is external competition, and the stakes are much, much higher. At this point, cost is pretty much no object, and you will see amazing things done in incredibly short time frames.

Internal competition determines which nation wins. External competition determines which species wins. Win the internal competition, and you get to name the planets. Win the external competition, and you get to survive.