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the game

game prep. ok, the museum will have ... telemetry, yeah. museum at arden or caloran? both. the battlefields will be surveyed by imperial and zhodani teams, let's see how far they get into this. let's see, they could ... could ... have an encounter with a left-over zho trooper? nah, too improbable ... wait a minute, a zho officer with the ability to travel forward in time and he does so to avoid the destruction of his unit and they interrupt his transit ... ooooh yeaaaah how's that for non-standard psi? when the time is right (pun intended). a few more things, stage is set.

only the navigator and marine colonel show.

she calls the pilot. impressively incoherent wake-up noises on the phone. "sorry guys, bad day, overslept."

that's alright, no problem, get some rest, we'll look for you next week.

well, we can do a few things until we get at least the pilot back.

"we want to visit one of the battlefields here." they make the contacts, are told permission will take a few weeks. they elect to return to arden, exchange cargo, and return, landing at a stockaded agricultural railhead. red dogs out there, they keep trying to fight their way in, nobody knows why. eventually the players get permission to meet one of the imperial battlefield surveyors in the field to ask about the red dogs, take the train out there. it looks ordinary, the surveyor is very knowledgeable (this is how the war worked, this is how the zhodani war, this is how the imperium wars), the red dogs appeared with the zhodani, we don't know why yet, no you can't take anything from the field it's all imperial or zhodani property.

on the way back they encounter zho combat armor half buried in the dirt and flowers. the marine colonel wants to know if he can strip its gaskets for his own combat armor.

nope, won't fit.

"we want to look for old ship hulks here."

well space is kind of big and ....

"let's go!" off they go. just run out and see if they find one. I have the little utility boat standing by.

three days, one die roll. three days, one die roll. three days, one die roll. three days, one die roll.

"we keep going."

three days, one die roll. three days, one die roll. three days, one die roll. three days, one die roll.

the deckhand npc starts announcing she's bored. she programs the engineering robot to go around singing the ancient mical jason song known by spacers everywhere, "I'm bored, I'm bored, I'm really really bored".

"we keep going."

three days, one die roll. three days, one die roll. three days, one die roll. three days, one die roll.

one of the rolls is an 11, but a fail. I give the "space is big. really big." lecture. you need some kind of telemetry data.

"ok."

return to arden, find the museum, get lots of telemetry data. they notice that about 200 other people have checked similar data before them. ready to go.

time.

on the way out the marine colonel player wants to talk about all the versions of traveller, how I'm running the game, what rules I'm using. we talk for half an hour.

good interest. see next week which happens first, the ship find or the groundside zho encounter.
 
only the navigator shows up. doesn't know what's up with the marine colonel player, offers to call the pilot player.

no, if he doesn't want to show up then he doesn't have to show up.

after a while I think of a short session, a simple ship to ship rescue. she accepts, we game it out, she learns a bit about ship handling and space operations. ok, you're immediately adjacent to the distressed boat, now what? she figures it out. how do you deal with the completely freaked out spacer? she deals with it.

time.
 
only the navigator shows up. we chat for a while, neither of us care to pursue a single-player game, decide it's over, I give her my number in case anyone else suddenly pops up with great interest, I go home.

it occurs to me that that probably was my last game.
 
I present this so that anyone who cares to can perhaps learn something from the issues, miscues, successes, and mistakes.
 
After your comment earlier in the thread about "I'm not through yet" I was afraid this was coming...

My only observation, from my home CT game, is that it takes time to build the campaign up, and it looks like you just missed breaking through that threshold of sustained interest? They seemed to have the same reactions my players had of "what can we do?"; why, anything you want.

Traveller is just not as immediately familiar to players as it used to be. For example, the 23 year-old daughter of my friend has been playing D&D/Pathfinder for over ten years (and now running her own game), but can't wrap her head around Traveller because she "can't picture herself in the game"...even though she's a fan of Firefly, which closely resembles the type of game/setting I run.

And this is why I think the next time I start a CT game I'll use the "shared sandbox" idea to generate the setting subsector of play with the group, so they all have the same baseline understanding of it.
 
Dungeons and Dragons is basically me slowly developing my character, through shared adventuring, in settings that can be as fantastical as the player's and the dungeon master's imagination can make them, with a great deal of help from TSR (Requiescat in Pace), WotC and all it's hanger ons.

'Tis rich ecosystem(s).

Traveller character generation results in a premade character, not really struggling to survive in a rather sparse setting.

MARPS - Middle Aged Role Playing Syndrome.
 
This was really interesting to read. I wonder if they would have been more interested if it was more of a Mercenary game. I had the sense that they got tired of the Referee (flykiller) essentially saying "No," to everything they wanted to do. It also could be that Science Fiction just doesn't work for them.
 
My only observation, from my home CT game, is that it takes time to build the campaign up, and it looks like you just missed breaking through that threshold of sustained interest?

near as I can figure it's not the ruleset or the setting or the game, but a group of friends, that constitutes the campaign. the group never got established.
 
near as I can figure it's not the ruleset or the setting or the game, but a group of friends, that constitutes the campaign. the group never got established.

I agree - my game is pretty slow going, and while I've known one of my players for 30+ years, this is our 1st Traveller game (the other player is one of his friends, and played Traveller back in the day). So we are establishing our little group but it is taking time (and oddly I am the young one at 53, so that helps a bit as well I believe - with age comes patience)

So while it is slow, we have met fairly consistently every 2 weeks. They are both learning about the Imperium as we go along, and slowly things are getting a little more rules-based as we progress and my 30+ years of not actually playing Traveller are overcome. And of the 4 hours or so we meet, really only about 2 or so are actual gaming.

Flykiller - maybe just keep trying. Eventually things will gel with any luck!
 
This was really interesting to read. I wonder if they would have been more interested if it was more of a Mercenary game. I had the sense that they got tired of the Referee (flykiller) essentially saying "No," to everything they wanted to do. It also could be that Science Fiction just doesn't work for them.

I agree with the saying "No". Suspect that it was the lack of finding a ship in the last full session. I'm sure that there was a chance to find something but they really wanted to find something. As Refs even if we don't want them to have something, we sometimes have to let them find the 'empty chest' in order to keep interest from waning.

After all, if I read this right they knew that hundreds of people had looked over the data. It doesn't hurt to have them find something that has nothing. It might have been just enough to keep them interested.

That said keep trying.
 
near as I can figure it's not the ruleset or the setting or the game, but a group of friends, that constitutes the campaign. the group never got established.


You put your finger right on the nub of the problem, Fly.

The group was ad hoc. While all the players had never been in a Traveller game, they all also joined without knowing what the campaign was all about. That's a double whammy: New rules and an unfocused campaign.

When you made your sales yeah, sci fi far future rpg, like firefly, jump between the stars ....pitch, you described the rules but not how you were going to use them. That led to the confused play which eventually left everyone unsatisfied. Look at the behavior of your players.

The pilot? He wanted a pure trade campaign, didn't he? It was always, land, unload, sell, buy, load, and get the hell out of Dodge. Steadfastly refused to bite on all the rumors, hints, and whatnot you dangled. Get the cargo and get out.

Colonel Munchkin? He wanted to shoot a lot of stuff right now. He even showed up with a min/max combat monster you had to defang. He wanted to play in a merc campaign or at least one with some gun combat every session.

The navigator? She was up for the knock around, trade a bit, scrounge a bit, explore a bit campaign that was slowly developing. The trouble was that none of her fellow players were either interested or stuck around long enough to become interested.

The only times I've refereed over the decade or so have been one-offs at FLGS game nights. "New to Traveller" ad hoc groupings like that mean I'm right up front on the style of the game. The note on the shop's bulletin board, the handout the cashiers have, and approaching me about the upcoming session gets any potential player the same spiel:

"It's Traveller, the classic version, so more role-ing than rolling. I'll have pre-gens. Any PC you bring must be okayed by me. The game will about A, B, & C, so any character you bring should be able to do X, Y, & Z."

I'll pitch the Traveller rules as a whole during the tightly focused session. They'll be busily killing Chamax on Raschev, driving an ATV across the Brightside, or boarding the Kinunir while I'll be answering questions about psionics, trade, mercs, aliens, and whatnot. I'll even have copies of the books for people to thumb through. The game on the table, however, is exactly what I previously told everyone it was going to be.

During the breaks or after the session, if someone says "I'd like more of X..." I'll point out that more of X is completely possible in Traveller - just not in this particular session.

My Traveller "test drives" have resulted in a few games and campaigns, none involving me due to my travel schedule sadly. A bi-weekly one lasted about a year at the FLGS. Another was played at the FLGS for a while until moving to a nearby campus where supposedly it lasted a couple years. Another group uses Traveller quickies between their Pathfinder sessions.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you need some level of cohesion or focus if a group is going to last. You can't tap a couple people on the shoulder, have them bring a few friends or acquaintances, present them with rules which are new to them, throw them into nebulous campaign concept, and expect things to last.
 
I guess I'm confused. (Genuinely. I'm not teeing up for snark here.)

The Players said (if I understand correctly) that they wanted to explore the remains of the site of an old battle for salvage.

On its face this seems like an AWESOME premise for a game setting. The visuals alone are fantastic. Let them explore the ruins. The find loot, but come across rumors of a valuable cargo on one of the fleet's ships nearby that they have to find. Have them realize a competing (and violent) salvage crew is already on the trail as well...

But, if I'm not mistaken, the idea was to not let them do it? Or stall them from doing it? Or get them to understand there wasn't much point in going since the bones had already been picked clean?

The players came up with this on their own. Which is MAGIC for forward motion in a campaign. The Referee only has to feed it. Even the later players could have fed into this... the pilot, after all, wanted more goods (salvaged valuable would fit the bill) and the guy with the itch for combat could be keeping an eye out for trouble and dealing with it when it arrived.

I have more questions... but this is what I want to ask about because I feel like I'm missing something right in front of me... but I can't see it.
 
Just for comparison, my current group got kicked off with a mission for 3 of the PC's... deliver these papers to Duke Norris upon his taking the Ducal Coronet of Regina." Immediately followed by a (planed) misjump putting them 15 parsecs off course... and having to bear the letters patent with them whilst trudging across mithril, and then finding their way to Regina.

So far, so good.

4th player is a noted space pirate captain. (6 terms and still kicking butt.) 5th is a vargr scout, whose crew abandoned him on Dinomn. They coopted him for a ride, and now, they're getting him roped in to examining the anomaly near Shionthy. 5 parsecs from Regina...
 
But, if I'm not mistaken, the idea was to not let them do it? Or stall them from doing it? Or get them to understand there wasn't much point in going since the bones had already been picked clean?

no. my idea was not to say "ok here it is" but rather for them to operate within the game setting. that it wasn't easy, that they'd have to work, that they'd have to gather information, that they'd have to use their skills.

when the last two players set out to find a derelict ship they just set out willy-nilly. I was prepared to let them find the utility boat on a roll of 12 (at minimum I wanted the entire game group present for the zho ship find) but that didn't occur. I explained to them that space is big - here's your sensor range (made a fist), here's the star (stand in one side of the room), here's caloran (take a few steps) and where you're looking is outside the library and across the street and over in the park. you're going to have to have some kind of idea where to look. so they said ok and went to get the data. the marine colonel did the research, and when he shared it with the navigator I referenced her skillset to point out that he had no skillset to properly identify what to look for and that she'd have to look it up herself. so she did (she had navigation 2* and comms 2*), and I was quite prepared to let them find it next session when the full group returned. such was my thinking and approach.
 
The pilot? He wanted a pure trade campaign, didn't he? It was always, land, unload, sell, buy, load, and get the hell out of Dodge. Steadfastly refused to bite on all the rumors, hints, and whatnot you dangled. Get the cargo and get out.

he wanted action (in describing his previous game he happily recounted how the giant threw his halfling character into the lava pit and he barely survived). the action was going to be in arden, so he took the group straight there. in addition while I was prepared for quite a bit of action on the way, I think my "people standing by in the painted footsteps" triggered something in him, and he just travelled faster. perhaps the casual attitude towards gas-giant refueling was a substitute for action.

when he got to arden I think there was less immediate up-front action than he wanted. in addition there was some friction between him and the navigator and between him and the marine colonel, especially over naming the ship - it seemed to me that that really bothered him - and I think he decided it wasn't worth it to him to continue.
 
The navigator? She was up for the knock around, trade a bit, scrounge a bit, explore a bit campaign that was slowly developing.

she was. but she also deliberately played a character that disliked people and who, while valuable and who contributed whatever was asked, volunteered very little.
 
no. my idea was not to say "ok here it is"... that it wasn't easy, that they'd have to work, that they'd have to gather information.....

Cool. I never would have suggested otherwise.

Thanks for the answer.

I am confused only because they seemed to be spending so little time taking action toward the goal they wanted. I understand now you were stalling a bit because of player concerns (which to players at the table is still not moving forward).

I also admit that I don't share the same fondness for dealing wth bureaucratic red tape in order to get to spots of adventure that many Referees of the The Third Imperium seem to enjoy. For me gathering information would have been taking it from some place or some person that wanted to hang onto it.

I wouldn't have even allowed them to wander into space looking randomly (why bother? to tell them what they were doing was boring?) Their characters would know better. But given that they wanted to do this, I would have assumed that their PCs knew something, had a source of information of some kind (even if it was something they had to go steal) so they could be focused and proactive and move forward of their own volition across any given session.

But that's me.
 
he wanted action...

But avoided it all the same. He was waiting until Arden to let his hair down?

when he got to arden I think there was less immediate up-front action than he wanted.

I don't think he knew what he wanted, just like the rest of the players.

... in addition there was some friction between him and the navigator and between him and the marine colonel, especially over naming the ship - it seemed to me that that really bothered him - and I think he decided it wasn't worth it to him to continue.

Group cohesion again. Getting upset over naming the ship was an excuse. The group was some ad hoc jumble with little consensus or cohesion from the beginning. Each player was pulling in different directions.

but she also deliberately played a character that disliked people and who, while valuable and who contributed whatever was asked, volunteered very little.

That really must have helped foster the cohesion you needed.

I understand why you ran the wreck search the way you did. The players weren't thinking about how the search and it's difficulties despite your repeated explanations. Equally importantly, most of the players weren't there. If you'd allowed the Ice Queen and Col. Munchkin to find and board the derelict the party have been looking for, you would have had several angry people next week.

A RPG group needs some sort of cohesion. You mentioned how a group of friends can provide it. I wrote about how tightly focused play can provide it. How that cohesion comes about, it's necessary.
 
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