The Gateway: Lords of Thunder Wars, or the Vegetarian Conquests

[GypsyComet]

It does leave a question of: Is there a world or two toward the core of the Two Thousand Worlds which should be inhabitable, but no one lives there because the ecosystem is still recovering from whatever damage was inflicted on it in an effort to K'kree-terraform it.

Almost certainly there are several such examples, but they may not be close to Kirur. Most of the worlds around Kirur were blasted by a supernova only 3 million years prior, and were likely sterile when the K'kree reached them. I have two operating assumptions that saved the K'kree themselves, one of which is visibly implied on Traveller Map already: The star that blew is/was a nomad and was not nearly as close to Kirur when it blew as it is now. The second is based on the map of Kirur: Based on the location of the cratering that is supposedly related to the nova, Kirur had a pole pointed at the nova instead of being equatorial. Kirrixur got a more even cratering, so I assume an early strike altered its axis of rotation and led to it being peppered.

So the worlds in the area were a spectrum of tabula rasa or poisoned ecosystems when the K'kree got to them. As I see it, the worlds around Kirur have largely been Kiruformed using the nova'd and G'naak-less "simplified" ecosystem of Kirur. Which sets up the area for a Wave-induced nightmare, as evolution kicks into high gear on dozens of formerly ideal worlds and begins filling empty ecological niches.

The examples of Kiruforming gone wrong are likely to be at the edge of that zone, where the K'kree had to deal with existing ecosystems for the first time. I do see the K'kree as being masters of Kiruforming (and the broader art of terraforming in general) because they are not at all afraid or hesitant about working with long time frames or worlds with, ah, "existing complications". By the current timeframe they've had practice on several hundred worlds.

 

[GypsyComet]

K'Kree philosophical question: If we must kill all G'naak, and the worms eat their bodies, do we have to kill the worms too?
Answer: Are worms really G'naak? What is Carnocide? If it "eats meat", but doesn't prey on the herd, is it worth killing?

At the same time, the K'kree are frequently farmers, using gardens for food variety as well as the pharmaceutical and perfume industries. Pest control through chemicals is rough due to their own extremely sensitive noses, so while some of their philosopher types probably complain that bugs eating bugs is a religious matter that should be dealt with, the K'kree "on the land" (which is frankly most of them) will recognize that ecological solutions to garden pests is the better approach.

As a side note, based on the complex soup of chemicals that adds up to "tomato", I suspect legacy breeds of tomato are a potential import to K'kree space.

 

[Condottiere]

Utilization of animal by products, like dairy, would encourage the development of husbandry.

Also, ambergris and crude oil.

 

[GypsyComet]

Yes, though there is no indication that lactation is a factor in Kirur native life forms, so the K'kree may have no appreciation for it and consider it another G'naak behavior. They are documented as feeding their young via regurgitation instead. Which, oddly, might make honey okay.

Their textile industries are likely entirely devoid of leather and sinew, depending on plant-based fibers and possibly fossil fuels where those exist.

 

[Low-G Vagabond]

If you're the biggest cheerleader for 1248, then I'm certainly on the line somewhere! The Spinward States absolutely rock as a familiar yet new-ish Traveller setting that begs to be tinkered with. My first post in this thread about the wormhole is something I did in my 1248 game to introduce the encroaching threat of The Lords of Thunder to the States.

If you're the biggest cheerleader for 1248, then I'm certainly on the line somewhere! The Spinward States absolutely rock as a familiar yet new-ish Traveller setting that begs to be tinkered with. My first post in this thread about the wormhole is something I did in my 1248 game to introduce the encroaching threat of The Lords of Thunder to the States.

Count me in for the 1248 cheer team.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Utilization of animal by products, like dairy, would encourage the development of husbandry.

Also, ambergris and crude oil.

Animal products involving extraction from an animal (alive or dead) may be a no go. Period. IIRC, in GDW's JTAS issue #24 (the one with "Philosophies of the K'kree") the interviewed K'kree patriarch spoke of one of their g'naak hunts. In there the patriarch described his disgust of the hunted sophont (I forget the species) as breast feeding, and his sense of relief after killing the female and offspring.

If this is true throughout the Two Thousand Worlds, products that involve the physical consumption of animal byproducts like milk, cheese, are just one step away from meat. Non-edibles from animals like ambergris and crude oil (whale oil analogues?) might be acceptable. Unless they can smell the meat eater and death from the product.

Ah, yes. K'kree on the high seas ! From the classic of K'kree literature g'naak of the High Seas"

....it rammed the ship, finally cracking the keel of the vessel where I learned of my place in the world. Flung to the hostile sea, I tread water as best my hooves could allow. I, Twilight Sparkle, was there to see the last moments of Captain Anv!ull’lxux. Lashed to the titanic amphibious g'naak, the captain stabbed and slashed repeatedly with his pike, causing gouts of blood to sprout despite the awkward angle. I heard him yell "From hell's heart, I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee! FOR THE HER...". The g'naak submerged, taking my Lord Captain Anv!ull’lxux, his ship, his crew to the depths with only me to tell the tale.

Though they are now part of the sea, my Lord Captain taught me that faith triumphs against insanity. Keep faith and the tales of your crew alive, and you may find your journey alone to be just a bit less intolerable

 

[Condottiere]

Crude oil, as dinosaur sauce.

Otherwise, how their industrial revolution progressed beyond coal should be fascinating.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Otherwise, how their industrial revolution progressed beyond coal should be fascinating.

Could have angled towards renewables (geothermal, biomass, wind, water, solar, gravity battery storage) faster than the Solomani did ...

 

[GypsyComet]

Their early power tech era is not well defined, but wind and wave, steam and probably a plant-based fuel oil. The K'kree knew there were demons in the dark, so various ways to keep fires burning would have been a focus. But one day a Patriarch came along, laboriously unified the entirely of Kirur, then pointed the Herd's eyes at the moon. Very shortly thereafter, they had fusion, anti-grav, and weaponry to fight the G'naak. Reminding the K'kree that they are prey tends to get them riled up to solve the problem.

 

[Krikkitone]

Crude oil, as dinosaur sauce.

Otherwise, how their industrial revolution progressed beyond coal should be fascinating.

Crude oil is plant juice not dinosaur sauce.

As for things like terraforming + pest control, I can see Kkree being ok with mass extinction campaigns against herbivorous/plant pests (given their general okness with mass extinction campaigns). I could see them killing off non sophont herbivores because they are food for local gnaak (see bison and Native Americans)

I’m also pretty sure simple decomposers would probably not fall under Gnaak.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I could see them killing off non sophont herbivores because they are food for local gnaak (see bison and Native Americans)

The sheer ecological RUIN you could cause by doing that is simply staggering humbling ...

 

[Krikkitone]

The sheer ecological RUIN you could cause by doing that is simply staggering humbling ...

That’s the way I see the Kkree, total remaking of the ecosystem to fit them. ie its a Vegetarian sophont, crop plant, pollinator, simple decomposer, or small slow breeding herbivore or it goes extinct. Forests feel too crowded so they get clear cut if it’s not a lumber farm. Nature preserves would have to be heavily managed, and would only be allowed if they are not reservoirs of herbivorous pests or borderline gnaak.

 

[Spinward Flow]

"The wages of extreme purity are sterility and death."

 

[Kilgs]

Also a huge fan of 1248-esque timeline but not the Great Battle or the Complete Domination of Lords of Thunder. Mainly because it completely wiped out my beloved Gateway Sector. But also I really like the concept of the Black Imperium as a Terminator-like BBEG that sends out armies of robot soldiers and such. I spent some time working on a more balkanized version but the damned TU has just way too many divergence points for alternate timelines. You start with one and then realize another would be better but what about that idea... etc ad nauseam. I swear it was designed to ruin people with Gaming ADD.

I have about 15 different documents and associated stuff of varying lengths that I obsess over until I land on another. Drives me nuts.

Of course, that's what makes it fun too ;-)

 

[GypsyComet]

... but not the ...

The primary author of 1248, the prolific MJD, is resistant to alterations in my experience. He's stated that the changes in the Wave invalidate it all, in his opinion. As a born synthesizer, I choose to disagree.

Only the coherency of the Spinward States and Vland's participation in the Dominate War are significant issues, and frankly Vland was wrecked already by the Black War's finale. The Dominate War already feels desperate on both sides, despite, or because of, the bluster coming from the Lucans and any emissary of the Dominate.

Of the various parties involved, Vland, Regina, and the K'kree are the most likely to know the Wave is coming. By the time the Dominate War launches, all three mainworlds (Vland, Regina, and Kirur) are already veterans of the Wave and probably not much use as economic bases. Their fleets are a different matter, and are aided by their own mobility and the fact that anyone less well prepared is worse off than the three worlds and unlikely to threaten them while the fleets are away.

The K'kree waaay to trailing would probably prefer to be re-establishing the TTW, but since all of their ships are under Virus control, war with the g'naak is the only thing on the menu. The "Dominate" does not refer to other races, but to the K'kree themselves, IMO. They're trapped in the war, but happy (for the most part) to go along. Pre-Radicalized and ready to pop, only the Wave (and losing the War) will stop them.

 

[Enoki]

While I haven't really looked at the Gateway sector, I have done a lot with the adjacent Crucis Margin sector and put much of that in the Traveller Encyclopedia. Many of the polities adjacent to K'kree space have entries with many details filled out. For example:

Mercantile Concord - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

Free and Holy Federation of Amil - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

Principality of Souris - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

Yeskoth Corporate - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

 

[JMiskimen]

The primary author of 1248, the prolific MJD, is resistant to alterations in my experience. He's stated that the changes in the Wave invalidate it all, in his opinion. As a born synthesizer, I choose to disagree.

Agreed. Though one may be the author/creator of any given source, once that is 'in the wild,' canon within a IMTU becomes relative to the referee.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

The primary author of 1248, the prolific MJD, is resistant to alterations in my experience. He's stated that the changes in the Wave invalidate it all, in his opinion. As a born synthesizer, I choose to disagree.

You would do well at improvisational theater. I agree as well. It has been my assertion that the new Wave changes very little history until it hits the Regency/Spinward States. Simply:

Radiating from (almost) the Galactic Core, the Wave silences observers unless they are viewing from a distance like the Longbow Projects. Information to nearby observers becomes at best, garbled, because surviving observers are themselves often garbled by the Wave's proprties. Starting from 1130, Virus itself can be thought of as sort of wave, radiating as a (very) imperfect ring from Celetron. It also destroys information and observers, though slower speeds and less well than the Wave.

Due to the overlapping waves of destruction and the Quarantine, little verifiable information makes it back to sectors along the line from the Marches and Rimward.

Synthesizing, the changes would do nothing to alter the Solomani peace treaties with Dukes Craig and Margaret in 1129. It would not alter the release of Virus in 1130. Nor to the destruction of the Confederation Council at Home by the "Sauron Supermen" in the 1130s. Even if regular communications existed, the Marches and Rim are two years away. The Virus isolates polities from knowledge of the Wave.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Now the TTW does not have that silly Rebellion business going on, but it does have the Lesser Rift and vile Julian g'naak (Vargr) on the other side. Average K'kree or fervent Thunder faithful are not going to tolerate listening to the lies of deceitful, greedy, hungry Vargr. So with regards to the Wave they too are isolated.

Their history would remained wholly unchanged until the 1160s, when the Empress Wave crosses into Un'k!!k'ng Sector. History is shielded (LOL) by the Lesser Rift and Virus.
1130 The extremist Lords of Thunder on the move. They have conquered the Renkard Union and are battling throughout Gateway Sector.
1133 Virus enters Gateway Sector. Slow entry is explained.
1138 The TTW thoroughly infected. Most K'kree survive however because they live on worlds not requiring technology to survive.
1150 The Two Thousand Worlds reduced to the Eleven worlds due to the disruptions from Virus.
Commentary: Having been pummeled by Virus for 15-20 years or so,, it is not likely the K'kree Outposts in Grikr!ng and Gn!hk!r Sectors are in any shape to warn the rest of the TTW
Coreward TTW, Wave Position in 1150

1158 The Battle of Kirur. Anv!ull’lxux and his "sane" Viral ally, executes the Overlord of the Eleven (formery Two Thousand) Worlds. Establishes The Dominate of the Gods of Thunder.
Coreward TTW, Wave Position in 1158
Commentary: IMO this is the last event that might reasonably occur to the K'kree new Virus or old. From here as civilization returns to the former TTW, the Dominate will eventually catch wind something is happening coreward.

1159-1175 The Dominate rebuilds much of the former TTW by this time. Hostile Virus eliminated, replaced by 'sane' Viral ally.
Coreward TTW, Wave position in 1175
Commentary: History becomes muddy now. The Wave crossed the Lesser Rift into the former TTW in 1165 in Un'k!!k'ng Sector, so the extent to which the Dominate expands before being slammed by the Wave is the question.

From here canon goes out the window as the two Waves are be irreconcilable as far as the K'kree go, IMHO.
Will Anv!ull’lxux get his proper funeral? Will Lucan and Anv!ull’lxux become friends? Stay tuned!
1175-1187 Wars against the Hive Federation
1187 Anv!ull’lxux departs with his "Funeral Procession" fleet to destroy all g'naak Spinward of the Dominate.
1195 Last returning ship of the Funeral Procession fleet reports in. Anv!ull’lxux's flagship goes it alone.

 

[mike wightman]

Have you considered that since the retconned wave is now an FTL phenomenon that Longbow no longer works since it is limited to lightspeed?
Not that it could work anyway as written...