MGT Only: The problem with Mongoose Traveller?

[nats]

Well it seems to me looking at the current list of publications being developed for MgT that MgT is becoming a game designed by fans. Many of the fans seem to be writing MgT books. Is this a bad thing?

Well I think it is. There seems to be no overall combining influence in the material at all. Some of the writers are very good and know their traveller, but others are writing generalised scifi with little or no thought of what Traveller really means.

Classic Traveller you had a small group of writers and a couple of artists who worked on all the books and adventures, they knew what Traveller meant to them and the who process resulted in a neat and conherent approach.

We dont seem to be seeing that from MgT. Some of the books have been very good - Core Book, Spinward Marches, perhaps some of the alien books. But some of the products have been attocious from a Traveller based perspective - particularly books like Mercenary, first Patrons book, Animals, Spinward Encounters, the Campaign Guide, Dynasty - these books show very little reference to what Traveller is all about at all. Sometimes I wonder if many of the authors have even read a Traveller book before writing their versions.

Although considering we have little other choice at the moment than to bear with MgT I wonder what the future will hold. Is Mgt going to start getting better? I mean if they acant even get the ATV correct in their recent revised massive vehicle book what hope is there?

 

[Nerhesi]

Although considering we have little other choice at the moment than to bear with MgT I wonder what the future will hold. Is Mgt going to start getting better? I mean if they acant even get the ATV correct in their recent revised massive vehicle book what hope is there?

Jesus they can't get the ATV correct! What hope is there?!?

As with every the vast majority of successful RPGs out there, the writers are as you said, good and bad. They vary. This is normal.

Simply use the material you like and dont use the material you dislike.

 

[DaveChase]

I assume you are just referring to the core books done by Mongoose, yes?


I think that many of the supplements are fairly decent to very good that I have seen (note: I have not looked at all of them)

As for only seeing MgT material, that is a licensing issue as MgT is open where the others are not.

Dave Chase

 

[Shonner]

Well it seems to me looking at the current list of publications being developed for MgT that MgT is becoming a game designed by fans. Many of the fans seem to be writing MgT books. Is this a bad thing?

It could be. But as long as they write well and give their own spin to a setting or race or equipment list without breaking already established Traveller lore/history, it shouldn't matter who writes the books.

Well I think it is. There seems to be no overall combining influence in the material at all. Some of the writers are very good and know their traveller, but others are writing generalised scifi with little or no thought of what Traveller really means.

True. Mongoose Traveller can also be used to role-play other sci-fi settings besides the 3rd Imperium. The Campaign Guide is written for gamers interested in creating their own sci-fi settings. Some of the careers stray off the old Classic Traveller path, so they are not so 1-dimensional as before.

Classic Traveller you had a small group of writers and a couple of artists who worked on all the books and adventures, they knew what Traveller meant to them and the who process resulted in a neat and conherent approach.

That was GDW for the most part. Traveller is licensed to Mongoose. They could have chose to just reprint the old Clasic Traveller with revised rules, or they could have chose to do a reboot of it.

We dont seem to be seeing that from MgT. Some of the books have been very good - Core Book, Spinward Marches, perhaps some of the alien books. But some of the products have been attocious from a Traveller based perspective - particularly books like Mercenary, first Patrons book, Animals, Spinward Encounters, the Campaign Guide, Dynasty - these books show very little reference to what Traveller is all about at all. Sometimes I wonder if many of the authors have even read a Traveller book before writing their versions.

Mongoose is not GDW, Imperium Games, or FFE. But if you can write well, and have great Traveller things to write about for MgT, talk to Matt to see if you can help counter-act the problem you see happening.

I mean if they acant even get the ATV correct in their recent revised massive vehicle book what hope is there?

What happened with the ATV? Did they release errata for it?

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I for the most part like the material. As a rule system it is not sufficiently coherent like characters vs vehicles vs starships vs polities, very true. But at least the systems are not so complex compared to other versions that an "average" person cannot get involved and play. Which is the most important thing.

I would counter that I do not think that it is the intent of Mongoose to simply stay in the confines of the OTU or 2300. That is obvious in the branding of material being stated for one campaign or another, or just the black book look for "generic" material.

 

[nats]

Well I must admit I am very excited about the future of MgT books now that I hear Merc v2 and World Builder handbook are in the works. If thwey could only do some great adventures .. anyway I think T5 has come and gone afaiac, and I am pretty much set for playing MgT for a long time to come (a few books still to get). Now that they seem to be doing better stuff I dont mind MgT really. I was just reading MgT Scouts properly the other day and I have to say I was really impressed with it. Its a really good book.

If you get over all the myriad of rules and ideas and thoughts in the MgT books that makes most of them impossible to use around the table, and instead see them just as providing source material for designing games and providing ideas, most of them are really good books for that. I cant possibly remember it all, but somewhere sometime I am sure a lot of it will be really useful in designing a game at some point! It is a matter of picking and choosing what to use as well, and considering I often play games in my own designed sectors anyway it is hardly fair to complain that MgT doesnt concentrate solely on the 3rd Imperium.

 

[PinkSplice]

A second edition of the core book would not be a bad idea, either.

 

[Kilgs]

MgT did a great job of rebooting Traveller. However, they have always indicated that it was to be a frame for a generic sci-fi game system. I agree with the notion that many of the books stray far afield but that's okay. As noted above, the system is supposed to support a wide range of material.

Unfortunately for Mongoose, the quality is hit-and-miss. Some of the core books really suffer from poor implementation, lack of creativity/depth, and simple mechanical coherence. I've heard a number of reasons... from brutal deadlines to just lack of submissions. The one I've heard a few times is the combination... a rush to publish everything possible while the license is active coupled with poor quality control.

I stopped buying the books due to a lack of quality not frame of reference. The bait-switch pulled on the original vehicle books, and the poor quality of books that followed after... that's the reason I decided to stop buying the books.

(Although I was recently encouraged to buy Merchant Prince... that was pretty neat. It fixed nothing in the mercantile section, in fact, made it worse since it's impossible to NOT make a profit now. But the rest of it was fairly cool.)

 

[robject]

A second edition of the core book would not be a bad idea, either.

Seconded. I've got my list... I'm sure everybody else has their own lists... for every rule there is one satisfied player and one unsatisfied player

 

[GypsyComet]

Well it seems to me looking at the current list of publications being developed for MgT that MgT is becoming a game designed by fans. Many of the fans seem to be writing MgT books. Is this a bad thing?

Heaven forbid the game was written by people for whom it was just a job.

 

[Marchand]

Unfortunately for Mongoose, the quality is hit-and-miss.

Aye, but there are some hits in there as well - Merchant Prince as you mention; Scoundrel; the Solomani alien book and Solomani Rim sector book all spring to mind.

 

[Qstor2]

I'm just hoping the Hiver and K'kree books get done

 

[Kilgs]

Agreed. There are some good ones out there but its too haphazard to simply buy them because they're Traveller books.

It's odd but one of the best books in quality terms, for me, was Beltstrike. I have no interest in mining, or campaigns based on it. Prior to reading that book, I would have scoffed at the notion.

Beltstrike should be the model for every career book going forward. It provided a perfect depth discussion of mining, minerals and the core tenets that such a campaign required. It was neither a tedious discussion or a pathetic dusting, it was perfect. It addressed concerns and issues with the type of scenarios that would be common to such a campaign such as vacuum and null-gravity. The campaign structure presented was excellent and made a concept, that I would have described as dull previously, into what could be an amazing game experience.

I may never use Beltstrike, it's not my cup of tea, but that book was worth every penny. It delivered on every component of a supplement.

 

[HG_B]

Agreed. There are some good ones out there but its too haphazard to simply buy them because they're Traveller books.

It's odd but one of the best books in quality terms, for me, was Beltstrike. I have no interest in mining, or campaigns based on it. Prior to reading that book, I would have scoffed at the notion.

I'll have to look at that one. On the other side of the coin, the new Vehicle book uses a totally different design paradigm that their Space craft design. Pick ONE and go with it. Bizarre

 

[pennshome723]

I do buy it all, just because maybe just maybe there might be something of use within a book. Now I use my own In-House rules but that has worked well for me and my GMing now for 25+ yrs. I have always built on to my House rules and have a system that I know and like to GM and my players prefer using it over any of the standard versions of the game. I still buy the books as resource materials just the same and add them to my huge library.

 

[Shonner]

The Mongoose books shouldn't bother anyone that house rules anyway, which is nearly everyone.

 

[Marchand]

The Mongoose books shouldn't bother anyone that house rules anyway, which is nearly everyone.

Maybe not for the rules alone, but the artwork and and writing are often eye-wateringly bad. Even in Merchant Prince, which I like, there are some grossly inappropriate and embarrassing pictures e.g. the one of the dude with the women on leashes. I dread the day my wife spots that one... broad minded she may be, but she will (not unreasonably) assume the art corresponds to the content. I find this all the more odd as the series in general seems pitched for readability for 14-16 yr olds, for what I am sure are sound commercial reasons.

I had hoped the Mongoose LBBs would omit the art but I was disappointed.

The production values, to me, are the main problem with MGT, but they aren't a show-stopper as there is treasure in there too.

 

[Shonner]

Maybe not for the rules alone, but the artwork and and writing are often eye-wateringly bad. Even in Merchant Prince, which I like, there are some grossly inappropriate and embarrassing pictures e.g. the one of the dude with the women on leashes. I dread the day my wife spots that one... broad minded she may be, but she will (not unreasonably) assume the art corresponds to the content. I find this all the more odd as the series in general seems pitched for readability for 14-16 yr olds, for what I am sure are sound commercial reasons.

I had hoped the Mongoose LBBs would omit the art but I was disappointed.

The production values, to me, are the main problem with MGT, but they aren't a show-stopper as there is treasure in there too.

The art does correspond to the content. It could have been Jabba and Leia in another RPG. 8-year-olds have Jabba toys. And there's a dancing slave Leia in Lego Star Wars. I have a feeling I'm replying to a fake post.

 

[aramis]

The art does correspond to the content. It could have been Jabba and Leia in another RPG. 8-year-olds have Jabba toys. And there's a dancing slave Leia in Lego Star Wars. I have a feeling I'm replying to a fake post.

There are a surprising number of socially conservative Traveller fans. Many are put off by the subject matter of the art; many more by the simple low quality by comparison to industry norms.

I, myself, find some of the art in MGT offensive. Page 76 of MGT Book 7 is a slaver with 4 scantily clothed and unhealthily curvaceous females on leashes. It violates the decency standards Marc and Hunter set for the board! It's thematic to the chapter, but I fund that chunk of the chapter offensive as well. Despite my great grandfather having owned people, or perhaps because of it, I find it utterly inappropriate.

Several other books have scantily clad women. I object there, as well.

But most of the art in MGT is simply poorly executed. Book 7 is some of the highest quality art in the line - objectionable for content rather than lack of quality.

 

[Shonner]

There are a surprising number of socially conservative Traveller fans. Many are put off by the subject matter of the art; many more by the simple low quality by comparison to industry norms.

I, myself, find some of the art in MGT offensive. Page 76 of MGT Book 7 is a slaver with 4 scantily clothed and unhealthily curvaceous females on leashes. It violates the decency standards Marc and Hunter set for the board! It's thematic to the chapter, but I fund that chunk of the chapter offensive as well. Despite my great grandfather having owned people, or perhaps because of it, I find it utterly inappropriate.

Several other books have scantily clad women. I object there, as well.

But most of the art in MGT is simply poorly executed. Book 7 is some of the highest quality art in the line - objectionable for content rather than lack of quality.

That image is a bit abstract (stylized) looking. And besides, it's fiction. If I had a problem with slave trading or human trafficking in an RPG, you bet my character would be righting that wrong (also a fictional character).