MGT Only: The problem with Mongoose Traveller?

[Kilgs]

Never had a problem with the cartoony art of the Mongoose products. I love the tripartite depictions of the various careers. There was one book that went too far but I can't recall it.

Slavery is a nasty business. Unfortunately, it is also one of the great mainstays of human civilization for much of our history. I haven't delved much into the chapter since I wouldn't let my players partake in the business. As I don't know much about what's in there, I'll refrain from preaching... But I recall the art and don't find it any more offensive than that found in numerous other books from different games. YMMV and we're all special snowflakes so someone's bound to dislike it. (Look at my incoherent rage at Agent...)

A neat way for Mongoose to avoid it in the future (hint, hint) is to make all art depictions of alien slaves. I've noticed Star Wars manages to get away with some nasty pictures of prisoners and slaves by making sure they're all fictional races.

 

[Marchand]

The art does correspond to the content. It could have been Jabba and Leia in another RPG. 8-year-olds have Jabba toys. And there's a dancing slave Leia in Lego Star Wars. I have a feeling I'm replying to a fake post.

I am not sure what a fake post is, really. If you suggest I have created this identity simply to denigrate Mongoose Trav, you're quite wrong. You'll find me commenting mainly on Traveller and almost exclusively on SF RPGs on this and a number of other boards, albeit a bit spasmodically, which is what parenthood and middle management do for you.

I have an actual play of a solo MongTrav campaign written up on another site. Google for it and thou shall find, if interested (Solomani renegades in Escape from the Confederation!).

Which might tell you I actually quite like Mongtrav, apart from the art and some of the writing.

I have no problem with slavery in a gameworld. It's only a game, after all. My problem with the art in MongTrav is purely aesthetic, not moral. I don't like cartoony stuff, and I don't like gratuitous large chests on female characters. I want art that encourages my suspension of disbelief. Being embarrassed by what's in front of me on the page breaks my SoD.

I probably have a harder time overlooking art I dislike than some might as it's a broader interest of mine. I did an art history degree part time a few years ago. I am NOT saying that makes my tastes in art "better" or "right" (they drum that right out of you). It's just that I tend to respond best to art that's closer to traditional forms, or, alternatively, to art that's more technical in feel.

 

[Shonner]

Never had a problem with the cartoony art of the Mongoose products. I love the tripartite depictions of the various careers. There was one book that went too far but I can't recall it.

Slavery is a nasty business. Unfortunately, it is also one of the great mainstays of human civilization for much of our history. I haven't delved much into the chapter since I wouldn't let my players partake in the business. As I don't know much about what's in there, I'll refrain from preaching... But I recall the art and don't find it any more offensive than that found in numerous other books from different games. YMMV and we're all special snowflakes so someone's bound to dislike it. (Look at my incoherent rage at Agent...)

A neat way for Mongoose to avoid it in the future (hint, hint) is to make all art depictions of alien slaves. I've noticed Star Wars manages to get away with some nasty pictures of prisoners and slaves by making sure they're all fictional races.

I'm looking at the shooting art. Seems to be images of guys shooting guns but not showing who (if anyone) is being shot at.

I did an art history degree part time a few years ago. I am NOT saying that makes my tastes in art "better" or "right" (they drum that right out of you). It's just that I tend to respond best to art that's closer to traditional forms, or, alternatively, to art that's more technical in feel.

Then you're familiar with the history of bad Traveller art according to Something Awful then.

 

[Easterner9504]

Gimme a break. Never give into PC group think. There is nothing wrong with the picture. You expect a rich decadent slob to buy four 300 pound soap opera fans. The pix is in the slavery section. It has little value in3I TRAV but other milieus can and do share the rules. Green Orion slavegirls will likely show up in TREK RPG.

 

[Dagrill]

I have an actual play of a solo MongTrav campaign written up on another site. Google for it and thou shall find, if interested (Solomani renegades in Escape from the Confederation!).

Hi,

very entertaining reads like a story if you take the dice rolls out, but can you explain what chaos 5 means please?

Regards

David

 

[Marchand]

Thanks - I had fun with it and I hope that comes through in the writeup.

I used the Mythic GM Emulator. It uses D10 or D100 throws against tables to answer the player's questions, to simulate the way that a human ref would. I know that sounds terrible, but it works quite well in practice. Chaos is a threshold from 1-10; if you roll under it, something unexpected happens.

The next stage was going to be with the PCs getting caught up in a power struggle on Lucullan between the old Hiver-backed feudal technocracy and the new Solomani-backed dictator who overthrew them (guess who they'd side with...)

 

[Easterner9504]

I use it too, usually works and lets GM run a character too.

 

[Garyius2003]

I, myself, find some of the art in MGT offensive. Page 76 of MGT Book 7 is a slaver with 4 scantily clothed and unhealthily curvaceous females on leashes. It violates the decency standards Marc and Hunter set for the board!

***

Several other books have scantily clad women. I object there, as well.

But most of the art in MGT is simply poorly executed. Book 7 is some of the highest quality art in the line - objectionable for content rather than lack of quality.

Since the thread is active again.

Mongoose has some really bad 'art', not as bad as some of the 80s Traveller mess, but also 66% terrible ship plans.

Traveller has always stopped at the brothel door, Mongoose should have as well.

The torture ⌧ in Starports was not needed. 'Bad guy has torture and execution room'. End. Let the players or GM fill in the details if really need be, otherwise just know they are really evil.

Why didn't they fix the starship cargo rules?

Half the stuff is almost as good and well thought out as GURPS Traveller, half is really bad slap dash.

 

[Jame]

A neat way for Mongoose to avoid it in the future (hint, hint) is to make all art depictions of alien slaves. I've noticed Star Wars manages to get away with some nasty pictures of prisoners and slaves by making sure they're all fictional races.

In the old WEG d6 system there were a few pics of human slaves (in Pirates and Privateers and Criminal Organizations), and as I recall they were female (though the one in Criminal Organizations may have had human male slaves in the background).

I would keep it *when dealing with slavery* and also *only if slavery is mentioned* to keep the thought that humans who keep slaves are going to keep other humans enslaved, and I bet you that most women who keep slaves will want (possibly unhealthily curvaceous) men as slaves, much for the same reason as men will want to keep women as slaves.

 

[Marchand]

Half the stuff is almost as good and well thought out as GURPS Traveller, half is really bad slap dash.

Yes. My thoughts exactly.

 

[Kilgs]

The torture ⌧ in Starports was not needed. 'Bad guy has torture and execution room'. End. Let the players or GM fill in the details if really need be, otherwise just know they are really evil.

Well, in case the art, slavery, editing, and general approach didn't cause me to stop buying products... that just did. Really? They went there?

/shakes head.

 

[Kilgs]

Had a random thought in traffic... is it the hexadecimal system? Is it the inability to bolt on new and improved components because of the reliance on the original Trav/MGT system? You have a character generation model that gets weaker with every supplement since they add skills. The mini-systems are required to conform to a hexadecimal limitation.

Is the system just not robust enough to withstand the expansions they put in?

(Granted, others have pointed a significant number of different issues... but is this also one?)

 

[simonh]

Well, in case the art, slavery, editing, and general approach didn't cause me to stop buying products... that just did. Really? They went there?

/shakes head.

I'm not sure I understand. Bad guys do bad things. That's what makes it ok for our bad-ass heroic characters to shoot them in the face.

Therefore it's Mongoose's job to give us a steady stream of info on the bad things the bad guys are doing, that are bad enough to justify said face-shooting.

What am I missing?

Simon Hibbs

P.S. I've seen the greaseball slaver picture, but not Starports.

 

[pendragonman]

I'm not sure I understand. Bad guys do bad things. That's what makes it ok for our bad-ass heroic characters to shoot them in the face.

Therefore it's Mongoose's job top give us a steady stream of info on the bad things the bad guys are doing, that are bad enough to justify said face-shooting.

What am I missing?

Simon Hibbs

P.S. I've seen the greaseball slaver picture, but not Starports.

Just remember, Han shot first.

 

[Shonner]

The torture ⌧ in Starports was not needed

Which page?

 

[simonh]

Just remember, Han shot first.

From Serenity:

Core Agent: "I am unarmed"
Malcolm Reynolds: "Good" - pulls gun, *Bang*

The only mistake he made is he didn't shoot him in the face, because body armour. See, I keep telling people, but will they listen?

Simon Hibbs

 

[hdan]

I'm not sure I understand. Bad guys do bad things. That's what makes it ok for our bad-ass heroic characters to shoot them in the face.

That's my take as well. And I'll go on record as thinking that the "Fat Vargr taking his Fru-Fru Human Pets for a Walk" picture is funny, in a dark sort of way. It's clearly a role-reversal of the "rich fat woman taking her flock of doggies for a walk" trope, as seen on countless TV shows and movies. I also love the impatient and disgusted looks on the women's faces. (You can almost suspect that the one of them is an agent of some sort, infiltrating the "harem", Faye Valentine-style.)

And that guy is clearly a self-important slimeball who deserves whatever happens to him. Enter the players...

 

[HG_B]

I'm not sure I understand. Bad guys do bad things. That's what makes it ok for our bad-ass heroic characters to shoot them in the face.

Some people run games with only pink ponies & unicorns. NOTHING wrong with that but, it is pretty bland & unrealistic...

 

[sfchbryan]

As far as the art goes, I have noticed how human = Caucasian.

I have always felt that the artwork in Traveller (and most other rpgs) are incredibly racist.

 

[Supplement Four]

As far as the art goes, I have noticed how human = Caucasian.

Probably ties to the majority of the market. I would guess that in Japan, much of the sci-fi art shows human = Asian. Maybe in Mexico, human = Hispanic.