General The Scout Courier is a terrible explorer

[AnotherDilbert]

Fine, make it a Jump-1 Subsidized Merchant then. Same question still applies, the smaller higher performance ship doesn't need what the slower and sloppier one does. No nav for a Jump-2 on the Type-S but the fat trader needs one to go half as far.

Blame Imperial regulations. An exception is made for Scouts, because they are flown by crazy Scouts, and the IISS is not regulated by the Ministry of Commerce.

It's a game, we have to have concise rules of thumb for simplicity.

Jump range has nothing to do with it, in CT a J-1 is just as difficult to plot as a J-2, IIRC, just as it is just as difficult to navigate from one city to another whether you drive a sports car or a van. You can call the Navigator a co-pilot if that makes you happier.


The same actual tasks have to be performed whether you have one crew or five. Practically most ships can presumably be flown by a single operator in an emergency, unless something happens...

The crewing requirements can be seen as what experience has shown is reasonable to keep the ship running safely, decade after decade.

 

[Blue Ghost]

For some reason I though there was a 150 ton "Long Scout" floating around out there somewhere.

Me too, but I guess it was just a neuron misfire. I also thought that Wayne Peters Florian has something like 112 or something odd displacement. But in an email exchange he assured me that it was a standard 100 ton design.

jogging my memory...the lack of a design system for SFB verse the design system for Car Wars, and the "step function" like MD/JD/PP system for Traveller was a major beef with some of us.

 

[whulorigan]

Me too, but I guess it was just a neuron misfire. I also thought that Wayne Peters Florian has something like 112 or something odd displacement. But in an email exchange he assured me that it was a standard 100 ton design.

jogging my memory...the lack of a design system for SFB verse the design system for Car Wars, and the "step function" like MD/JD/PP system for Traveller was a major beef with some of us.

The Regency Quarantine Cutter from TNE was a 150ton "stretched" scout.

 

[coliver988]

Me too, but I guess it was just a neuron misfire. I also thought that Wayne Peters Florian has something like 112 or something odd displacement. But in an email exchange he assured me that it was a standard 100 ton design.

jogging my memory...the lack of a design system for SFB verse the design system for Car Wars, and the "step function" like MD/JD/PP system for Traveller was a major beef with some of us.

There is a 150 ton stretch Wind Class from the Scouts and Assassins book

 

[Shadow Shack]

Blame Imperial regulations. An exception is made for Scouts, because they are flown by crazy Scouts, and the IISS is not regulated by the Ministry of Commerce.

But we can't restrict it only to the scouts, quoting your prior response that free trader also doesn't need the navigator because it is not "over 200 tons".

Jump range has nothing to do with it, in CT a J-1 is just as difficult to plot as a J-2, IIRC, just as it is just as difficult to navigate from one city to another whether you drive a sports car or a van. You can call the Navigator a co-pilot if that makes you happier.

The thing about stars is they too are always in motion, so plotting a trip to a further star is definitely going to take more work than plotting a trip to a closer one.

I'm merely looking for something 'canon' that explains why the navigator rule is in place. I've already house ruled that a navigator skill is needed for any jump on any ship, much like an engineer skill is also going to be needed on any ship regardless of size. Like you said, any ship could be operated by a single person, but eventually that person is going to have to pick and choose which task(s) take the back seat....

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The thing about stars is they too are always in motion, so plotting a trip to a further star is definitely going to take more work than plotting a trip to a closer one.

Since we get there in a week the relative speed will displace the star the same distance regardless of how far it is.

I'm not convinced that the relative speed between stars, generally not all that much bigger than the relative speed between the endpoint planets, is a major consideration in hyperspace navigation. The calculations for aiming a few billion km in front of the star in real space is rather trivial.

I'm merely looking for something 'canon' that explains why the navigator rule is in place.

I don't think there is one. I would assume it just a way of requiring bigger crews on bigger ships.

I've already house ruled that a navigator skill is needed for any jump on any ship, much like an engineer skill is also going to be needed on any ship regardless of size.

Not unreasonable. Most other editions of Traveller after CT require just that, often with an exception for the Scout.

 

[Condottiere]

1. And then you have jump tapes; presumably, the astronavigator is then the dee jay.

2. You can add standard modules to a standard hull, or attach a smallcraft, and recalculate drive performance based on the new volume.

 

[Selandia]

I believe the manning rules do not reflect practical necessity created by some laws of nature, they reflect the projection in the TI of an existing philosophy in matter of regulation: zero risk do not exist, do not impose regulation that smother business by draining operating revenues or imposing prohibitive capital cost. Larger ships, with more revenue, could meet more exacting standards. If you choose, you may operate in a polity with manning rules different from those of the TI.

If you were in need of navigator and engineer aboard every ship, the economic of Adventure Class Ship would make ACS (and much of the OTU Traveller) less workable.

Before retiring I was a lawyer, most clients wanted to argue with the juge that the rules did not make sense. The rules are the rules. Thanks God(s), unlike real life, you can change game system whenever you like or work a own TU that make sense for you. After all the whole point of game is to have fun.

have fun

Selandia

 

[Vargr Breath]

Crewing requirements are set by the USH (United Space Haulers) union.
"Look buddy you don't want a grievance or a strike just follow the rules as they are written."

 

[Shadow Shack]

Crewing requirements are set by the USH (United Space Haulers) union.
"Look buddy you don't want a grievance or a strike just follow the rules as they are written."

Yep, I witnessed this firsthand. Two engineers were going around various bits of equipment, the first one would remove bolts and panels, they'd wait a bit, and the second one would replace the panel and bolts. After watching them do this for an hour I inquired exactly what the purpose of removing and replacing panels was...their answer was "the parts inspector called in sick today."

 

[kilemall]

I always excused the Scout's lack of crewing requirement on the 20 ton bridge, 20% bridge of available space meant a highly automated control system.

 

[Blue Ghost]

There is a 150 ton stretch Wind Class from the Scouts and Assassins book

That would be Mongoose Traveller, correct?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

That would be Mongoose Traveller, correct?

CT, it's detailed in Merchants & Assassins (1981):

But there are exceptions, such as the Wind class (extended Serpent class) scout at 150 Dt (Merchants & Assassins).
http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Wind_class_Scout/Courier

 

[Blue Ghost]

Many thanks, fellow citizen. May a thousand Vargrs with a gallon of steak sauce never frequent your air lock.